Teams & Riders Froome Talk Only

Page 32 - Get up to date with the latest news, scores & standings from the Cycling News Community.
Jul 21, 2012
9,860
0
0
jamesmasters said:
Oh come on, I'm quite new to the forum and I'm sure you've had this argument a million times before with other people but Wiggins did not come out of nowhere. A rider who has done nothing in road racing in his early to mid 20s because he is mediocre, is very clearly not the same thing as a rider who has done nothing in road racing because he has been busy winning multiple Olympic golds.

As above I'm not saying Sky are definitely clean but it is a little more nuanced than people on here making out.
great another mildly brilliant skybot
 
May 26, 2010
28,144
2
0
jamesmasters said:
Oh come on, I'm quite new to the forum and I'm sure you've had this argument a million times before with other people but Wiggins did not come out of nowhere. A rider who has done nothing in road racing in his early to mid 20s because he is mediocre, is very clearly not the same thing as a rider who has done nothing in road racing because he has been busy winning multiple Olympic golds.

As above I'm not saying Sky are definitely clean but it is a little more nuanced than people on here making out.
Racing flat out for 4km gold does not equal biggest race in the world winner either. It is a little more nuanced to win a GT then being olympic pursuit champion.
 
Feb 15, 2013
176
0
0
Benotti69 said:
Racing flat out for 4km gold does not equal biggest race in the world winner either. It is a little more nuanced to win a GT then being olympic pursuit champion.
I am not saying he is definitely clean. But nor is he a donkey who has been struggling home in 50th place for the first ten years of his career, before miraculously turning into an invincible robot.
 
jamesmasters said:
Oh come on, I'm quite new to the forum and I'm sure you've had this argument a million times before with other people but Wiggins did not come out of nowhere. A rider who has done nothing in road racing in his early to mid 20s because he is mediocre, is very clearly not the same thing as a rider who has done nothing in road racing because he has been busy winning multiple Olympic golds.

As above I'm not saying Sky are definitely clean but it is a little more nuanced than people on here making out.
Slight correction. Not early to mid 20's. early to late 20's. he was 29 when he realised he could climb, not 24 or 25 as your post would suggest.

Anyway olympics are once every for years. I dont see the argument that wiggins soft peddalled his entire road career until 2009, because he was thinking about the olympics, including races like the 2006 TDF which were 700 days away from the next olympics, as particularly compelling.
 
May 26, 2009
4,114
0
0
jamesmasters said:
Oh come on, I'm quite new to the forum and I'm sure you've had this argument a million times before with other people but Wiggins did not come out of nowhere. A rider who has done nothing in road racing in his early to mid 20s because he is mediocre, is very clearly not the same thing as a rider who has done nothing in road racing because he has been busy winning multiple Olympic golds.

As above I'm not saying Sky are definitely clean but it is a little more nuanced than people on here making out.
If only Sergi Escobar, Luke Roberts or Robert Bartko gave the road a proper chance, they could have won GT's and prestigious week long stage races. Hopefully Jesse Sergent, Jack Bobridge and Taylor Phinney to name a few wont make the same mistakes and will follow the Wiggins route to the top step of a Grand Tour podium. The starting point from memory is finishing in the 'Grupetto' then......
 
The Hitch said:
Slight correction. Not early to mid 20's. early to late 20's. he was 29 when he realised he could climb, not 24 or 25 as your post would suggest.

Anyway olympics are once every for years. I dont see the argument that wiggins soft peddalled his entire road career until 2009, because he was thinking about the olympics, including races like the 2006 TDF which were 700 days away from the next olympics, as particularly compelling.
With the fact that his weight (as a track rider) was too high for GC contention on the 2006 TDF, and the fact the 2006 TDF was in the Landis type doping era, coming anywhere near the front of the tour with a track weight would be suspicion in the extreme
 
May 26, 2010
28,144
2
0
BYOP88 said:
If only Sergi Escobar, Luke Roberts or Robert Bartko gave the road a proper chance, they could have won GT's and prestigious week long stage races. Hopefully Jesse Sergent, Jack Bobridge and Taylor Phinney to name a few wont make the same mistakes and will follow the Wiggins route to the top step of a Grand Tour podium. The starting point from memory is finishing in the 'Grupetto' then......
The grupetto is where all the talent for the future hangs out these days...
 
Dec 27, 2010
6,674
0
0
del1962 said:
With the fact that his weight (as a track rider) was too high for GC contention on the 2006 TDF, and the fact the 2006 TDF was in the Landis type doping era, coming anywhere near the front of the tour with a track weight would be suspicion in the extreme
Was 2009 a clean Tour?
 
Feb 15, 2013
176
0
0
del1962 said:
With the fact that his weight (as a track rider) was too high for GC contention on the 2006 TDF, and the fact the 2006 TDF was in the Landis type doping era, coming anywhere near the front of the tour with a track weight would be suspicion in the extreme
The posts on here aren't balanced at all. The general sense you get from a lot of them (admittedly more from the professional road racing forum than the clinic) are that the noble sporting hero Contador is being robbed of the wins that are rightfully his by the evil Sky team.

Of course, now I've written all of that, Sky will probably get busted. :)
 
Dec 30, 2011
3,547
0
0
The Hitch said:
Slight correction. Not early to mid 20's. early to late 20's. he was 29 when he realised he could climb,
He was in his late twenties when Beijing had finished.
 
jamesmasters said:
The posts on here aren't balanced at all. The general sense you get from a lot of them (admittedly more from the professional road racing forum than the clinic) are that the noble sporting hero Contador is being robbed of the wins that are rightfully his by the evil Sky team.

Of course, now I've written all of that, Sky will probably get busted. :)
If Sky are doping (or anyone else for that matter), I hope they get busted.

But I am for now of the opinion they are not doping.
 
Dec 27, 2010
6,674
0
0
jamesmasters said:
The posts on here aren't balanced at all. The general sense you get from a lot of them (admittedly more from the professional road racing forum than the clinic) are that the noble sporting hero Contador is being robbed of the wins that are rightfully his by the evil Sky team.

Of course, now I've written all of that, Sky will probably get busted. :)
Maybe 5% of the posts in any of the Sky threads have anything to do with Contador. Probably less. Remember Contador hadn't raced against the Sky train at full power until this week.

There's a reason these threads keeps going, and it's not Contador.
 
Jul 21, 2012
9,860
0
0
del1962 said:
Slower than 2006, clean is another question, probably cleaner than 2006 though
Isnt the Verbier climb one of the fastest in tour history? Doped up Wiggo would have destroyed Contador that day. think about it.
 
Feb 15, 2013
176
0
0
del1962 said:
If Sky are doping (or anyone else for that matter), I hope they get busted.

But I am for now of the opinion they are not doping.
I would say the case against them is overstated, although I wouldn't say there is no case at all.
 
Mar 18, 2009
1,003
0
0
And to think Wiggins couldn't get over a speed bump at Poitou Charentes - oh that's right, he was just lazy & hadn't decided to train smart. Now who're the outliers - Wiggins and Armstrong who showed no proven abilities to win GTs until their late 20s after years of middling performances on the road or Fignon, Merckx, Hinault, Lemond who all showed GT ability from the outset?

Wiggins did take a lovely picture of Tafi for me at TdPC, though ;)
 
May 26, 2010
28,144
2
0
del1962 said:
If Sky are doping (or anyone else for that matter), I hope they get busted.

But I am for now of the opinion they are not doping.
The rest stopped doping to allow the clean team win lots becuase it is good for the sport. So generous. I guess all the track nations did too to let the Brits win some golds for a change.
 
Apr 20, 2012
6,321
0
0
del1962 said:
Slower than 2006, clean is another question, probably cleaner than 2006 though
Mont Ventoux (last 15.6 km)

Tour de France 2000, Stage 12

Marco Pantani --------ITA | 48:59
Lance Armstrong ----- USA | 48:59

Tour de France 2009, Stage 20

Bradley Wiggins ----- GBR | 49:22

What DO you think the Frommedawg is capable of?
 
May 12, 2010
1,998
0
0
del1962 said:
With the fact that his weight (as a track rider) was too high for GC contention on the 2006 TDF, and the fact the 2006 TDF was in the Landis type doping era, coming anywhere near the front of the tour with a track weight would be suspicion in the extreme
Last year Wiggins was barely slower on La Toussuire and Peyresourde than the faster were in 2006 and 2007. With his fantastic time trial, Wiggins would be a serious contender in those two races.
 
Froome19 said:
He was in his late twenties when Beijing had finished.
Well yes. Ergo why i corrected the poster who said wiggins showed nothing from his early to mid 20's.

Unless you were deliberately trying to echo my point (which as you are one of the more naive Sky fans, i doubt was the case) then you seem to have gotten lost in the discussion somewhere.

again.
 
And Garmin rider David Millar (no relation to Robert) noted that, prior to his Tour performance, Wiggins wasn’t anywhere near as sought after by the Sky team as its late, intense courtship might indicate. “You can ask (Sky principals) Dave (Brailsford) or Shane (Sutton), who was on their hit list of British riders six months ago; where was Brad six months ago?” he asked when we spoke by phone.
 
Dec 30, 2011
3,547
0
0
The Hitch said:
Well yes. Ergo why i corrected the poster who said wiggins showed nothing from his early to mid 20's.

Unless you were deliberately trying to echo my point (which as you are one of the more naive Sky fans, i doubt was the case) then you seem to have gotten lost in the discussion somewhere.

again.
Erm. I was trying to make a point, but it seems to have been lost on you.
 
jamesmasters said:
I would say the case against them is overstated, although I wouldn't say there is no case at all.
Since you say you have not read the clinic before and all your comments only concern the - imrprovement part of the story Ill take this chance to tell you that here are more sides to the sky doping case than just the surprising massive improvements of 4 riders all of whom just happen to be at sky when they get the improvement.

If you do believe that was a total coincidence (and even Sky dont seem to want to sell it that way given the vague comments about how training at sky is so good it provides boosts equal to doping- their words) then there are other things to look at,

One is Wiggin's very strange open admiration (for someone allegedly anti doping) for Lance Armstrong which reached far more sycophantic levels than anyone else in the peloton and which included crediting him personally for many of his victories last year (including on the podium at Paris Nice) and attacking his accusers . Obviously tied with Sky openly crowning themselves as successors of Lances team - US postal and calling themselves - UK Postal. Another eybrowraiser at the least.

Theres the total failure of their original anti doping policies and promises. Not only did they fail horribly in their pledge to sign only clean riders and staff - with some very obviously shady people like Yates Barry Rogers signed, they also went back on their promise to to be open about doping. The most notable example being Bailsford saying he had no idea Barry was a doper and that he was shocked to hear Lance Armstrong did it too:rolleyes:

Oh and the small matter of what a doctor recently identified as having been a doping mastermind at Rabobank, was doing at Sky last year and why team "we will be honest and open about doping" have decided to take a "dont you dare ask me about that" attitude with regard to him.
 

ASK THE COMMUNITY

TRENDING THREADS