Teams & Riders Froome Talk Only

[scottmckinley]

clinical tests show no impact of salbutamol on performance

http://m.thorax.bmj.com/content/56/9/675.full

 

[kingjr]

Haven't watched much cycling have you mate? Read around a bit I'm sure it won't take you very long to realise how truly bad yersterday's display from Froome was tactically.

The surprising thing is why Froome doesn't seem interested in tactics whatsoever. Armstrong showed ten times the tactical ability even in '99 and all he had to do was beat Alex Zulle.

I mean only a fool would lay all their cards on the table at the Dauphine and Contador has shown he is no fool. Froome on the other hand. Well...

Exactly, Armstrong had only to beat Zulle. On the way to Sestriere he attacked once and got away immediately. Slightly overestimated himself to Piau-Engaly, but you know that I'm sure.
And I've watched just about every bike race that's televised since I'm 5 years old, to clear that up.

@flanders, what's wrong with at least once trying to wave Contador through, you see this sort of stuff happen almost everyday. It was worth a try, and he didn't insist on it. and yes he was leader before the stage by a mindblowing 8 seconds, there's no reason at all of course to try and increase that gap.

I'm not trying to portray Froome as a master-tactician here, far from it, I've seen Alpe d'Huez last year too. But again I simply fail to see how that was so bad yesterday, if he had continued pulling Contador at full speed after his first attack only to risk running into a counter at some point, now that would've been bad.

Anyway, have we found any proof that he was actually using an inhaler 20k from the line there? Do we know that and we're already discussing whether he deliberately waited for the camera to turn away?

 

[MartinGT]

I just cannot see this being anything dodgy at all. Even the Dawg & Sky would be stupid to do anything dodgy in camera shot like that.

What I cannot get my head around is the fact that we have only really seen him use it now. You would think with the Badzilla, it would have been mentioned.

Why havent we seen him use it before?
Why hasnt his gfriend mentioned it before?
Why hasnt Brailsford / Sky mentioned it before?

Its these questions that this brings up. Yeh, some of the lads in the peloton use a ventolin, but they are not someone like the Dawg, i.e in the spotlight.

They are shocking in PR terms, yet they seem to wonder why people question them?

Sky seriously need a word in the Dawgs ear about his gfriends Twitter account. Seriously do.

 

[el_angliru]

Anyway, have we found any proof that he was actually using an inhaler 20k from the line there?

Slow-motion video:
http://video.gazzetta.it/delfinato-cosa-sta-inalando-froome/16d6ae2a-f014-11e3-b2e1-380b78d4a61b

Edit: Not that there's anything dodgy about it (IMO).

 

[kingjr]

Slow-motion video:
http://video.gazzetta.it/delfinato-cosa-sta-inalando-froome/16d6ae2a-f014-11e3-b2e1-380b78d4a61b

Thx, but that vid's too short

Watch this until 1:30 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pIAWEAnzuAg&sns=em and tell me whether it doesn't look like he's got something in his mouth after his hand drops.

Although maybe that's the trick now that I think about it, he probably swallowed the whole inhalator.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

http://m.thorax.bmj.com/content/56/9/675.full

If you can confirm it's salbutamol he is inhaling the study you have linked will be useful.

 

[The Hitch]

Yeah but him and the other dude commentating yesterdays stage were carrying on like school girls - everytime they say"Froomie" I want to puke....Sounds like Paul and Phil in the days when they were still in love with Armstrong.

Ironically the other commentator, was like Phil and Paul, someone who was in love with Armstrong, and saw his eurosport commentary position as a platform from which to defend lance and attack his doubters (though hypocritically he would shun contador and others).

When armstrong fell however, Brian smith, the rat that he is tried to pretend he was always anti lance.

Even p and p never tried to pull a lie like that.

Truly one of the scum of the sport.

 

[Digger]

Miss cound is amazing! I have the screenshot...pr genius

 

[Granville57]

Did he wait until the camera was off him before taking the puff, and only just get caught as the camera swung back to him?

When you watch it real time, it does almost appear that way. The camera shot then switches to the overhead, at which point I can't even see the moto at all, so it's not clear just how close the camera was at the time of the revealing shot.

It all happens so fast that Froome may not have even realized that he was on camera though. I realize this sounds all "conspiratorial" but it is what it is. I can only judge what I see, and I what I saw was...interesting.

 

[The Hitch]

Anyone who has Eurosport have a look at LeMond of Cycling. In his latest addition he talks about the upcoming tour and what happened at the Giro. Maybe someone with better tech skills than I could youtube it. To paraphrase what he said;

He was heartened by what he saw in the Giro that a talented young guy who was talented all his life coming into his prime and gets results. If you are talented, you are talented from a younger age. Not like you saw 20 years ago when guys would come out of no where and suddenly get talented.

I quoted it in the Wiggins thread

" That is historically in cycling, the true talent is there at 19, 20, you don't come up at 29 years old, you don't come up at 30, that's what was happening the last 20 years, guys would all of a sudden discover themselves. It doesn't happen."

 

[Danielovich]

how do one get access as a journalist ?

I know this might seem a little silly and a bit away from the context, but for some time I have seriously thought about creating a kickstartet.com project which should fund an open media (site, blog, twitter profile etc.), with real journalists behind the stories, but whom should be asking real the real questions from the fans, like the ones in here. And who had no chief writer to answer to.

The problem for me is that no one (journo's) is trying to tackle these guys or their team leaderships, or UCI, ASO etc for that matter. For answers and that data which is missing all the time.

Eyes on the ball journalism, hardcore to the bone, demanding, wanting answers from these people with slowplaying with bad marketing and stupid tactics.

Bad idea or worth a shoot ? Would a media like that get any time at race briefings, interviews etc. ? Would ASO even let you in at these kind of races.

We could start with the Madone time, the missing SRM data from pre vuelta, the inhaler, the 1cm stem drop. The stories are many.

 

[The Hitch]

I thought it was Kirby but might be wrong, it was the commentators on the SBS feed before Keenan and McKenzie took over. I think the second commentator was Dan Lloyd...

Then maybe it was Kirby.

Perhaps he wasn't that bad in the giro, I wouldn't know because thank god he didn't do we.

But if you want to know how bad he can be he spent the entire tour last year with the narrative that froomie was getting accusations thrown at him because the French were angry that they hadn't won a stage and unfairly picking it out on him. He said the accusations stopped after the French won a stage (alpe) because the French were no linger bitter.
He repeatedly said that sky eliminated all doubt by giving whatshisface froomes power data, and repeatedly said the data "proved" that froome is clean. (Seriously)

Not to mention that he kept repeating this narrative of jealous French and froome proving he is clean, all the way through the rest of the season, bringing it up race after race.

If that wasn't enough he had a rant about cunego coming back from a 2 year doping suspension, and smirked that cunego is no longer as good as he was pre ban. Not one of the bots that follow him on Twitter seemed to even know who cunego was because when I looked in the hope of seeing him correct this idiot, they were all joining in in the cunego bashing and talking about how he shouldnt have been allowed to return since bans should be for life.

That's just on clinic things from last year's tour.

 

[Gung Ho Gun]

If you could convert it into a platform that "helps riders prove they're clean" perhaps ... if some smaller teams/riders were to start cooperating, the others *might* follow
I really like the idea but it probably wouldn't work

 

[The Hitch]

Exactly, Armstrong had only to beat Zulle. On the way to Sestriere he attacked once and got away immediately. Slightly overestimated himself to Piau-Engaly, but you know that I'm sure.
And I've watched just about every bike race that's televised since I'm 5 years old, to clear that up.

@flanders, what's wrong with at least once trying to wave Contador through, you see this sort of stuff happen almost everyday. It was worth a try, and he didn't insist on it. and yes he was leader before the stage by a mindblowing 8 seconds, there's no reason at all of course to try and increase that gap.

I'm not trying to portray Froome as a master-tactician here, far from it, I've seen Alpe d'Huez last year too. But again I simply fail to see how that was so bad yesterday, if he had continued pulling Contador at full speed after his first attack only to risk running into a counter at some point, now that would've been bad.

You mention froome attacking contador 3 times, that was not what was bad. What was bad was that he pulled all his opponents for the entire climb. Even when they were going slow.

On a climb like that do you have any idea how much the opponent saves from being in the slipstream?

Bare in mind that 2 weeks ago today Ryder Hejsedal, who was otherwise a fringe top 10 climber, in that giro, managed to hold the wheel of a superform nairo Quintana, on a harder climb on a harder stage.

Froome was just towing them. Shutting down every attack himself. Giving his opponents a free ride.
And not by going fast. Some riders have in the past -basso, mosquera, ullrich, broken others by setting a hard pace.

But froome wasn't even doing that. We know because riders kept catching up from behind. And he wasn't going too slow and resting either because he was bringing back all attackers. He was effectively leading out contador the entire climb. As well as others at other points of the ascent.

It's not the 2 attacks on contador (before the sprint) that were bad as you seem to think. Those were the right thing to do. What was bad was everything else.

 

[MartinGT]

I know this might seem a little silly and a bit away from the context, but for some time I have seriously thought about creating a kickstartet.com project which should fund an open media (site, blog, twitter profile etc.), with real journalists behind the stories, but whom should be asking real the real questions from the fans, like the ones in here. And who had no chief writer to answer to.

The problem for me is that no one (journo's) is trying to tackle these guys or their team leaderships, or UCI, ASO etc for that matter. For answers and that data which is missing all the time.

Eyes on the ball journalism, hardcore to the bone, demanding, wanting answers from these people with slowplaying with bad marketing and stupid tactics.

Bad idea or worth a shoot ? Would a media like that get any time at race briefings, interviews etc. ? Would ASO even let you in at these kind of races.

We could start with the Madone time, the missing SRM data from pre vuelta, the inhaler, the 1cm stem drop. The stories are many.

The problem with this is less and less riders will speak to you and it will soon collapse. You will be black balled very quickly.

 

[GuyIncognito]

The problem with this is less and less riders will speak to you and it will soon collapse. You will be black balled very quickly.

In a heartbeat.
Look at F1. A french journalist asked a question that Hamilton didn't like after qualifying. His accreditation has already been removed.

There's a reason every question is softballed.

 

[msjett]

Ironically the other commentator, was like Phil and Paul, someone who was in love with Armstrong, and saw his eurosport commentary position as a platform from which to defend lance and attack his doubters (though hypocritically he would shun contador and others).

When armstrong fell however, Brian smith, the rat that he is tried" to pretend he was always anti lance.

Even p and p never tried to pull a lie like that.

Truly one of the scum of the sport.

Didn't know anything about him to be honest, only recently got eurosport (and the other cable tv stations), so I haven't really heard much of his commentary. However that said, I am not surprised to hear that. The fawning he does over "Froomie" is vomit inducing.

 

[Wallace and Gromit]

On a climb like that do you have any idea how much the opponent saves from being in the slipstream?

I know this was a rhetorical question, but here's my rough estimate...

The benefit is approx 30% on the flat, so uphill at less than half flat speed, the benefit might be around a tenth of this, so 3% overall? Definitely worth having, but not enough to enable an "also ran" to keep up with an elite climber on a long climb.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

I know this was a rhetorical question, but here's my rough estimate...

The benefit is approx 30% on the flat, so uphill at less than half flat speed, the benefit might be around a tenth of this, so 3% overall? Definitely worth having, but not enough to enable an "also ran" to keep up with an elite climber on a long climb.

When Froome is out of the saddle, attacking, I'd give it at least 20% savings for anyone on his wheel. The speed and the added draft of a standing rider more than make up for the gradient.

And they were not going that slow when they were pushing it.

 

[Catwhoorg]

How could the Dawg be any cleaner?

No caffeine pills. Just double shots of espresso and honey in a water bottle.

Caffeine is caffeine no matter if its in a pill or a home-made latte drink.

 

[No_Balls]

Froome attacked. Then waved Contador through. That in itself was idiotic?why on earth would Contador come through in that situation? Can't get over how dumb that looked. But never mind.

I am sure Dawg had convinced himself that AC would be drinking latte in the gruppetto at that point. So he acted very emotionally. I am sure something inside Froome died at that sight. While dude is an ego of never witnessed before dimensions, he has a very fragile ego.

Then Froome went to the front and pulled for a couple of k's, almost never coming off the front, while in the leader's jersey mind you. Why? Why would the leader pull on the front while not attacking?

Because he has a point to prove. Screw tactics then if you feel invincible. While Wiggo might hide his vulnerability behind a facade of laughter Froome does it by screwing tactics and showing the rest of the world that he can basically run the show by himself. And then his apologetics has to do the cleanup work by telling the world that what we saw is not what we saw. Nevermind that it is a completly mockery of the sport as we know it (if that is possible at this point).

 

[No_Balls]

Froome attacked. Then waved Contador through. That in itself was idiotic?why on earth would Contador come through in that situation? Can't get over how dumb that looked. But never mind.

I am sure Dawg has convinced himself that AC would be drinking latte in the gruppetto at that point. So he acted very emotionally. I am sure something inside Froome died at that sight. While dude is an ego of never witnessed before dimensions, he has a very fragile ego.

Then Froome went to the front and pulled for a couple of k's, almost never coming off the front, while in the leader's jersey mind you. Why? Why would the leader pull on the front while not attacking?

Because he has a point to prove. Screw tactics then if you feel invincible. While Wiggo might hide his vulnerability behind a facade of laughter Froome does it by screwing tactics and showing the rest of the world that he can basically run the show by himself. And then his apologetics has to do the cleanup work by telling the world, and insult the worlds intelligence,that what we saw is not what we saw. Nevermind that it is a completly mockery of the sport as we know it (if that is possible at this point).

 

[ebandit]

ballistic alien encounter

funny/crazy/awesome in equal measure

one must be impressed by da dawg's honesty attacking from the front like that...................where is the joy in seeing a wheelsucker pop round our intrepid andventurer at the last moment ( rhetorical ? )

what would impress ALL here...........I know gotta have wiggo at the tdf to lead out da dawg on the final stage in paris

I don't think there is anything th the xenon/inhaler story... to me it just looked that froomey was struggling to eat something that had melted in the heat

Mark L

 

[Catwhoorg]

No caffeine pills. Just double shots of espresso and honey in a water bottle.

Caffeine is caffeine no matter if its in a pill or a home-made latte drink.

The irony of this given the quotes in his book just struck me.

 

[MartinGT]

funny/crazy/awesome in equal measure

one must be impressed by da dawg's honesty attacking from the front like that...................where is the joy in seeing a wheelsucker pop round our intrepid andventurer at the last moment ( rhetorical ? )

what would impress ALL here...........I know gotta have wiggo at the tdf to lead out da dawg on the final stage in paris

I don't think there is anything th the xenon/inhaler story... to me it just looked that froomey was struggling to eat something that had melted in the heat

Mark L

Then why would Mrs Dawg mention the asthma?