Teams & Riders Froome Talk Only

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Mar 13, 2009
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blackcat said:
well, the unfo on Schleck the jnr from his time at VC Roubaix under cyrille guimard was he was a bigtime charger. And Frank had zero results as a jnr and espoir, and when he was at De Nardi in Italy. There was an australian brother from tasmania who rode on that team. someone should ask him about Schleck circa 2000. Frank was ordinary. until under Riis tutelage. and only got the gig cos Jan went from Team Coast to new iteration of Bianchi when Riis had left open a spot for him and johnny schleck the old man, got in touch with Barney to get a spot for Frank.

was sean sullivan, not sure if he was the one who rode for Toyota Pro Cycling the domestic team in the US or that was his bro. Kim Kirchen was also on that team De Nardi
http://www.cyclingarchives.com/ploegfiche.php?id=10009
who was evans old climbing buddy? Ulle?

I think RR might have said the anecdote on CyclingForums. he posted under a different handle there.
 
Mar 13, 2009
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Ferminal said:
I dunno, Andy's Giro debut draws a clear line in the sand. Maybe there was something before, but it can't have been a lot. I guess it parallels Corti's boy.
and he timetrialled phenomenally well in his first Giro. it was a massive ride from a debut rider. and the chronos indicated to me a talent akin to Evans in the race against the clock.

but that chrono potential has never materialised.
 
Mar 13, 2009
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Don't be late Pedro said:
How old was he?
i think he was about 22. his first 2 years were pretty anonymous. a very low profile program, 2.1 and old classification2.2 races like Denmark Rundt
 
Aug 12, 2009
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blackcat said:
ask Race Radio. I got the info off him you goose.95% of what i post in second hand info. chinese whispers if you will. for that, i will plead guilty. but i dont make sh!t up.
Did I say you made it up? No need to get over defensive. I simply said I heard it from only you. There are way too many posts for anyone but a serious mod to even get close to reading them all. Don't forget that.
 
Aug 12, 2009
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Don't be late Pedro said:
For the second one posted I was on holidays. For the first one...doesn't matter. I was referring to posts from LAST year. Not this year and like I said, from BC. Same stuff anyway. Wasn't relevant other than to illustrate the point.
 
Mar 13, 2009
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like me saying evans had to go to bmc because any polymath with a brain and knew the background of evans and his team history knew he was bmc, i think, going on memory, andy had 18 months, or one and a half seasons in the pros before his year when he came RU in the giro, with two(?) more than mediocre, more than competent, lets say, excellent, timetrials.

he was given a very low-profile, 2.1 or 2.2 program in the old language. before the Giro debut.

WRT Ullrich, if i pass on second hand info, which may well be the 5th degree in the chinese whispers 7 degrees of will smith/kevin bacon separation, I THINK I HAVE EARNT THE CREDIBILITY to be believed.

Udo Bolts was a Telekom original rider, this is about 15 years before he became a DS, and about two decades ago, more, than that now about the Ullrich anecdote.

so just calm down galic, send me a pm to clarify things, which i can. but atleast pay some respect to the guys who get it right.
 
Aug 12, 2009
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blackcat said:
like me saying evans had to go to bmc because any polymath with a brain and knew the background of evans and his team history knew he was bmc, i think, going on memory, andy had 18 months, or one and a half seasons in the pros before his year when he came RU in the giro, with two(?) more than mediocre, more than competent, lets say, excellent, timetrials.

he was given a very low-profile, 2.1 or 2.2 program in the old language. before the Giro debut.

WRT Ullrich, if i pass on second hand info, which may well be the 5th degree in the chinese whispers 7 degrees of will smith/kevin bacon separation, I THINK I HAVE EARNT THE CREDIBILITY to be believed.

Udo Bolts was a Telekom original rider, this is about 15 years before he became a DS, and about two decades ago, more, than that now about the Ullrich anecdote.

so just calm down galic, send me a pm to clarify things, which i can. but atleast pay some respect to the guys who get it right.
I am calm. Have been the entire time. You've misread my tone and my point. I wasn't saying you were wrong, I was only saying what I mentioned on the other page. That single posts unless really run about and discussed at length are just that. More or less opinions. As I said, those links to RR posts I never read and I couldn't have read one of them (ban hammer). That is why I said in my first reply it doesn't matter. FWIW I do give your posts a lot of creed and heightened scrutiny as it is. They're worth more than what most post IMO :D

But getting back to Froome, I see nobody has touched on the big game changer that Wiggins used which given the physiological similarities in skeletal and muscular structure between both Sky riders, it's fair to say BOTH used AICAR to drop weight. Just look at the pictures. Now is that not a game changer doping wise? Did Contador, Evans or Valverde ever need to do that? How about Schleck or Nibali? It's like the whole ectomorph argument again. Schleck is a natural ectomorph. Purely that and only that. Wiggins and Froome are hybrids. Like I said months back, if they were naturally very light for their height, then we wouldn't be having this discussion. But they weren't. They are now.

Do my points make sense now? Go back 25 years, the extra weight would have hindered them GC wise. Now? Take a pill. Schleck never needed to do that. Evans is practically the same build as Lemond, with an extra chin, but you get my point right? Pre 2009 this wouldn't have been possible. AICAR and GW1516 or whatever it is called have completely changed the ball game. Remember the threads talking about Cancellara becoming a GC rider IF he lost some weight? We already know his VO2max is huge...he'd be devastating if he lost weight and maintained almost all his power. So no, given the massive weight losses, I can't consider the Sky boys to be in the same boat as many others who are doping because those guys never needed to drop 10kg just to get a good power to weight ration going.

Point in parcel. Take Uran and Porte. Did they need an AICAR program or have to drop lots of weight for already very fit men? Nope. Which is why I will always think they are more naturally talented as GC riders.
 
Apr 20, 2012
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blackcat said:
my posts on froome are pretty transparent.

dont be a goose and twist and deny what i have said dude.
I believe it is you who is telling us time after time how disadvantaged all the South Africans, Aussies, Canadians etc etc are in comparison to the Euro's?

Didnt Cadel have that same disadvantage back in the day? Yet he was stellar in 2001/2002. On his debut on the Euro scene.

Point stands, there was more than enough 'assistence' on Barloworld for the riders.
JimmyFingers said:
No, stop addressing me like I'm defending Froome blindly.
Was I adressing you or did I sense a new general pattern?

Back on today: liked the gearing he had. Guess he worked on his cadence.
 
Aug 12, 2009
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Fearless Greg Lemond said:
I believe it is you who is telling us time after time how disadvantaged all the South Africans, Aussies, Canadians etc etc are in comparison to the Euro's?

Didnt Cadel have that same disadvantage back in the day? Yet he was stellar in 2001/2002. On his debut on the Euro scene.

Point stands, there was more than enough 'assistence' on Barloworld for the riders.Was I adressing you or did I sense a new general pattern?

Back on today: liked the gearing he had. Guess he worked on his cadence.
When push becomes shove and you are riding on the same Tour team as Soler Hernandez in 2008 and Robbie Hunter; do I need to say more? He had access to stuff. Enough to get noticed. He did nothing. Which is the clear point here, the other big GC guys did something. Even the ones everyone thought would become GC guys, like Kreuziger and Gesink, did something. Froome was oblivious for a reason (beyond even his own Barloworld team mates) and people can spin it however they want, it won't change the fact he didn't have it until late 2011 when Leinders and Kerrison had the whole program roaring hotter than anything in the peloton.

Gearing today; wind tunnel right? Or perhaps not holding back as much because he doesn't need to upset Wiggins this year.
 
Mar 13, 2009
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Fearless Greg Lemond said:
I believe it is you who is telling us time after time how disadvantaged all the South Africans, Aussies, Canadians etc etc are in comparison to the Euro's?

Didnt Cadel have that same disadvantage back in the day? Yet he was stellar in 2001/2002. On his debut on the Euro scene.

Point stands, there was more than enough 'assistence' on Barloworld for the riders.Was I adressing you or did I sense a new general pattern?

Back on today: liked the gearing he had. Guess he worked on his cadence.
no, the Australians have ADVANTAGES. it was, Canadians, South Africans, and New Zealanders that are DISadvantaged ;)

Wiggins would never have got a second chance in the peloton after FDJ and CA, he demonstrated zero ability to get results on the road. he could not win a prologue to save himself. his second third and fourth chances came from him being a Brit, and an inverse, positive discrimination. (neoplasm, not double neg)
 
Aug 12, 2009
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blackcat said:
no, the Australians have ADVANTAGES. it was, Canadians, South Africans, and New Zealanders that are DISadvantaged ;)

Wiggins would never have got a second chance in the peloton after FDJ and CA, he demonstrated zero ability to get results on the road. he could not win a prologue to save himself. his second third and fourth chances came from him being a Brit, and an inverse, positive discrimination. (neoplasm, not double neg)
So you're saying HTC took him on because he was a Brit? Then Garmin too?

I buy that.
 
Mar 13, 2009
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Galic Ho said:
So you're saying HTC took him on because he was a Brit? Then Garmin too?

I buy that.
well, it helped he was winning team pursuit golds and individual pursuit golds.

and heiko was big in german cycling but had great links to aus/brit cycling too. heiko is a legend.

so. the track par excellecence demonstrated his power. and every team in the peloton can use a rider who can put out that power for working, or helping a sprinter.

no, there WERE reasons why he did get picked up, but he could not get a result, and as you keep on reminding us, he loved being in the autobus when the road tilted up. Like Ullrich, before they got him on epo.
 
Mar 13, 2009
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Galic Ho said:
When push becomes shove and you are riding on the same Tour team as Soler Hernandez in 2008 and Robbie Hunter; do I need to say more? He had access to stuff. Enough to get noticed. He did nothing. Which is the clear point here, the other big GC guys did something. Even the ones everyone thought would become GC guys, like Kreuziger and Gesink, did something. Froome was oblivious for a reason (beyond even his own Barloworld team mates) and people can spin it however they want, it won't change the fact he didn't have it until late 2011 when Leinders and Kerrison had the whole program roaring hotter than anything in the peloton.

Gearing today; wind tunnel right? Or perhaps not holding back as much because he doesn't need to upset Wiggins this year.
actually, his first demonstration of climbing legs was on Garmin in about 2009 Giro. I think he came 8th, 9th, from memory. you can get the results,

sorry, thought you meant Wiggo
 
Apr 20, 2012
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blackcat said:
no, the Australians have ADVANTAGES. it was, Canadians, South Africans, and New Zealanders that are DISadvantaged ;)

Wiggins would never have got a second chance in the peloton after FDJ and CA, he demonstrated zero ability to get results on the road. he could not win a prologue to save himself. his second third and fourth chances came from him being a Brit, and an inverse, positive discrimination. (neoplasm, not double neg)
Where do you place Tasmanians?

How do you think Froome got a ride on Sky? Dont you think it was a package deal by Alex Carrera? Augustyn was the target for Sky. And to be frank, he had something.
 
Mar 13, 2009
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Fearless Greg Lemond said:
Where do you place Tasmanians?

How do you think Froome got a ride on Sky? Dont you think it was a package deal by Alex Carrera? Augustyn was the target for Sky. And to be frank, he had something.
yeah, i was a big promoter of JK Augustyn too ;)

tasmanians, australians. they come thru the same avenue.

froome got his Brit passport, and tested well for Brailsford

edit: JL Augustyn, not jk
 
Apr 20, 2012
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blackcat said:
yeah, i was a big promoter of JK Augustyn too ;)
Yeah, what actually happened to him? He got sick in the 2010 Vuelta but further?

10-08-1986
Tour of Japan 2006
Mount Fuji
1 John-Lee Augustyn RSA in 40m 56s

Froome
20-05-1985
Tour of Japan 2007
Mount Fuji
1 MASCIARELLI Francesco ITA ASA ITA 0:41:38
6 FROOME Chris KEN KON RSA 0:44:25

Same disadvantaged South African. Just a little bit more talent?
 
May 28, 2012
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Fearless Greg Lemond said:
Yeah, what actually happened to him? He got sick in the 2010 Vuelta but further?

10-08-1986
Tour of Japan 2006
Mount Fuji
1 John-Lee Augustyn RSA in 40m 56s

Froome
20-05-1985
Tour of Japan 2007
Mount Fuji
1 MASCIARELLI Francesco ITA ASA ITA 0:41:38
6 FROOME Chris KEN KON RSA 0:44:25

Same disadvantaged South African. Just a little bit more talent?
South-Africans dope from a very early age, hence why Agustyn got so many injury problems at Sky.
 
Apr 27, 2010
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Ferminal said:
I dunno, Andy's Giro debut draws a clear line in the sand. Maybe there was something before, but it can't have been a lot. I guess it parallels Corti's boy.
Andy was a mega talent even as a junior. He won the Wilhelm Tell and had a ton of results before he turned pro.

Everybody talked about from he was 14 or 15 years old and said that he would be a GC contender in the GT later in life.
 

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Jun 5, 2013
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blackcat said:
actually, his first demonstration of climbing legs was on Garmin in about 2009 Giro. I think he came 8th, 9th, from memory. you can get the results,

sorry, thought you meant Wiggo
Incorrect. Wiggins' first mountain showing was in the 2005 Tour de l’Avenir, where he won the mountain top finish. First win as a pro.
 

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