Teams & Riders Froome Talk Only

[hrotha]

This from the PRR thread.

Grasping. At. Straws.




(Not providing a link because I don't want to start a flame war, but damn, that is funny.)

They probably weren't, but the notion that Froome wasn't at his best either shouldn't be controversial.

 

[LaFlorecita]

Well I'm over all the focus that's put on Froome. My issue with him was not only that he's personally ridiculous (Contador: check), or that his team as a whole is ridiculous (Tinkoff: check), but that he was dominating while being so ridiculous. Right now, Froome doesn't dominate, and Sky struggles. Contador, meanwhile, is going to win his 8th GT. He's a bigger problem.

fixed that for you
and why is Contador personally ridiculous

 

[Cookster15]

Well I'm over all the focus that's put on Froome. My issue with him was not only that he's personally ridiculous (Contador: check), or that his team as a whole is ridiculous (Tinkoff: check), but that he was dominating while being so ridiculous. Right now, Froome doesn't dominate, and Sky struggles. Contador, meanwhile, is going to win his 6th GT. He's a bigger problem.

Totally agree with this post - especially the bold bit.

 

[burning]

He wasn't at his best since missing Tirreno-Adriatico, maybe that back problem contributed to his crashes during Dauphine, which made the situation much worse for him.

 

[OldCranky]

Looking forward to Walsh and other bots calling Contador a doper now.

I love their tears.

Umm... he is a doper though.

I know what you mean, but I'd be perfectly happy to see and hear commentators, journos and everybody else refer to dopers as dopers every single time because as far as I'm concerned that is what defines their careers, not whatever victories they managed to cheat their way to.

I have to say the fact so many Clinicians seem to hold a love-in for Dirty Bertie always amuses me when I lurk here though; proven drugs cheat but hey, he looks great on the bike huh? Not like the dawg with his downward looks and nasty elbows

For the record (before the usual procession of halfwits arrive screaming that I'm a Froome fanboy and yes, I'm British) I know exactly what Froome's career arc looks like and it would take a far braver man than me to say he's clean. I've been a cycling fan since my parents used to take me to the Kellogs City Centre Cycling races in the UK in the early 80's and I can't think of a single cyclist since then who has had a rise to prominence like Froome's and didn't achieve it through the pill and the needle, so either he's a genuine medical miracle (lol like Pharmstrong ) or he's just another venal cheat in a sport that is utterly saturated with them, both on the bike and in the team car.

Thing is, none of that makes Froome any different to the rest of them. I can't grasp how anybody can root for someone like Bertie or Piti over Froome when the overwhelming likelyhood is simply that they're all as bad as each other.

 

[Granville57]

But I am happy that you are happy that a doper that you love beat a doper that you don't like.

I'm happy that you are happy in feeling confident about the way I feel about either of them.

If they are both doping, why would it matter if I had a preference one way or the other?

If they are both clean, then the better rider just won (if we consider results to be the indicator of "better").

If one is clean and the other dirty, then we are witnessing an extraordinary human achievement from the clean one (whichever one that may be).

More than anything, I would love to know the truth behind it all.

But I don't.

 

[DirtyWorks]

...Right now, Froome doesn't dominate, and Sky struggles. Contador, meanwhile, is going to win his 6th GT. He's a bigger problem.

Why is 2nd not dominating? I realize it's "first loser" but, I didn't see Sky struggling. Froome's team drove the peloton and delivered the GC leaders including Froome to the base of the final climbs. And then Froome rode all but Contador off his wheel this last week.

It seems like Contador, like Froome, is favored by the UCI and has been for quite a while.

 

[meat puppet]

Agree with hrothas posts general sentiment. Its the arms race that sucks. Individual riders are just human capital investments. Personalities and aesthetics count second to the bottom line. Sky was the most ridiculous team (or best oiled corporate machinery?) the past couple years. Now movi tinkoff and astana clearly have stepped up their game. So its logical to diversify the stick too.

And still, sky 2011-2013 was like usps. Kinda expect tinkoff or astana to be just that or worse in the coming years. Fun.

 

[hrotha]

Why is 2nd not dominating? I realize it's "first loser" but, I didn't see Sky struggling. Froome's team drove the peloton and delivered the GC leaders including Froome to the base of the final climbs. And then Froome rode all but Contador off his wheel this last week.

It seems like Contador, like Froome, is favored by the UCI and has been for quite a while.

How can 2nd be dominating? By definition?

Sky did well today but it was nothing special overall (Deignan did raise an eyebrow and brought back memories of Cervélo, of course). Pacing the peloton before the final climb, big deal. In the 2014 CQ team ranking, Sky are 7th. Other than Froome, Kennaugh and Thomas (who by the way is having a pretty logical progression), no one has performed particularly well.

 

[Granville57]

I have to say the fact so many Clinicians seem to hold a love-in for Dirty Bertie always amuses me when I lurk here though; proven drugs cheat but hey, he looks great on the bike huh?

I think that's partly due to a huge misconception about The Clinic, that is often put forward as a criticism of The Clinic—that being that The Clinic is supposed to be this bastion of ANTI-DOPING.

Where that comes from, I've no idea.

The Clinic is a place to DISCUSS doping, and since the very topic isn't even "allowed" into other some other sections of the forum, this is where the doping talk takes place.

The Clinic was never established as The International Center to Stamp Out Doping. It's simply a place to discuss it without people whining about the fact that it's being discussed.

Some people are vehemently anti-doping.
Some people would prefer a free-for-all.
Some people are completely ambivalent on the matter.
Some people hold more than one view depending on any number of issues.

It is not the responsibility of The Clinic to end doping or to crucify every single person who dopes. It is a place to further one's understanding of doping.

People are free to cheer for whatever doper, or as many dopers as they like. Doing so doesn't make that person a hypocrite just because they post in The Clinic.

No one signed an agreement of being anti-doping when they showed up here. It's simply not part of the equation.

As the sub-title of this sub-forum indicates, the purpose of The Clinic is to "discuss doping-realted issues."

It seems quite straight forward to me.

 

[ChewbaccaD]

What is even more ridiculous is that anyone thinks this year's Vuelta is any less ridiculous than last year's.

Froome looked alien today for sure, it's just that a rider with far superior physiological skills doped to his level, and in that instance the less talented rider will always lose. Sucks for Froome, but if Clentadope and he are on the same program, Clen wins every time.

 

[roundabout]

How can 2nd be dominating? By definition?

Sky did well today but it was nothing special overall (Deignan did raise an eyebrow and brought back memories of Cervélo, of course). Pacing the peloton before the final climb, big deal. In the 2014 CQ team ranking, Sky are 7th. Other than Froome, Kennaugh and Thomas (who by the way is having a pretty logical progression), no one has performed particularly well.

Deignan was one of the best riders in the mountains in France on amateur level circa 10 years back.

unfortunately due to the messed up state of the sport it's difficult to say whether it's a good or a bad thing

 

[OldCranky]

I think that's partly due to a huge misconception about The Clinic, that is often put forward as a criticism of The Clinic—that being that The Clinic is supposed to be this bastion of ANTI-DOPING.

Where that comes from, I've no idea...

No one signed an agreement of being anti-doping when they showed up here. It's simply not part of the equation.

As the sub-title of this sub-forum indicates, the purpose of The Clinic is to "discuss doping-realted issues."

It seems quite straight forward to me.

Fair point. I tend to assume that anybody who cares about the sport enough to want to discuss it on an online forum is anti-doping by default since I can't think of a single positive aspect to it, but perhaps I erred in that assumption.

(I know I only have four posts but I've lurked here for about 2 years by the way so I'm not a total noob - the general flavour of the Clinic is certainly anti-doping, regardless of whether it's actually a formal prerequisite for posting.)

 

[roundabout]

I'm happy that you are happy in feeling confident about the way I feel about either of them.

If they are both doping, why would it matter if I had a preference one way or the other?

If they are both clean, then the better rider just won (if we consider results to be the indicator of "better").

If one is clean and the other dirty, then we are witnessing an extraordinary human achievement from the clean one (whichever one that may be).

More than anything, I would love to know the truth behind it all.

But I don't.

Your posts are dead giveaway.

And as for wanting to know the truth, please. Your posts absolutely don't seem that way to me.

 

[the sceptic]

Fair point. I tend to assume that anybody who cares about the sport enough to want to discuss it on an online forum is anti-doping by default since I can't think of a single positive aspect to it, but perhaps I erred in that assumption.

Some like to pretend they are anti doping, but all they really care about is defending sky.

 

[sir fly]

PEDs assisted Vuelta performance,certainly, but not very close to the Dauphine.

 

[roundabout]

People are free to cheer for whatever doper, or as many dopers as they like. Doing so does make that person a hypocrite just because they post in The Clinic.

Err, having a much bigger problem with one doper's doping than the other absolutely does make one a hypocrite.

 

[Granville57]

Fair point. I tend to assume that anybody who cares about the sport enough to want to discuss it on an online forum is anti-doping by default since I can't think of a single positive aspect to it, but perhaps I erred in that assumption.

I think it's a very common misconception, and it tends to lead to a lot of animosity and misunderstanding on both sides.

The scientific side of all it can be most interesting and intriguing without the need for drawing moral battle lines. It is a very interesting topic from many vantage points.

The political/corruption side of all of it can be equally interesting and intriguing.

Enjoy the ride, and welcome to "the discussion."

 

[Granville57]

Baiting as usual. Well done.

Your posts are dead giveaway.

And as for wanting to know the truth, please. Your posts absolutely don't seem that way to me.

Err, having a much bigger problem with one doper's doping than the other absolutely does make one a hypocrite.

Are you obsessed with making this personal?

Reading comprehension is not your forte, I can see.

 

[kingjr]

They're both clean, get over it.

 

[Granville57]

This is not cool at all.

Looks like a beer or soda can maybe? Bounces right off either Froome's arm or leg it seems.

https://vine.co/v/OaJYj6T0lrE

Hope someone caught an image of the clown behind that. So dangerous for everyone. And so incredibly disrespectful.

 

[roundabout]

Are you obsessed with making this personal?

Reading comprehension is not your forte, I can see.

Nah, just pointing out that your "manifesto" is not a clever as you think it is.

 

[bigcog]

This is not cool at all.

Looks like a beer or soda can maybe? Bounces right off either Froome's arm or leg it seems.

https://vine.co/v/OaJYj6T0lrE

Hope someone caught an image of the clown behind that. So dangerous for everyone. And so incredibly disrespectful.

Whoever did it needs a good *** kicking.

 

[Afrank]

This is not cool at all.

Looks like a beer or soda can maybe? Bounces right off either Froome's arm or leg it seems.

https://vine.co/v/OaJYj6T0lrE

Hope someone caught an image of the clown behind that. So dangerous for everyone. And so incredibly disrespectful.

It's a stick. In slower motion- http://common.tv2.dk/mpx/player.php/adtech_alias-sporten_vast/guid-FroomePind13092014.html (video take a while to come up)

Definitely not cool.

 

[Mellow Velo]

Some like to pretend they are anti doping, but all they really care about is defending sky.

Some pretend they are anti doping, but all they really care about is hypocritical stirring.