Teams & Riders Froome Talk Only

[fmk_RoI]

It used to be a requisite that riders be competitive all season, till after 1999...

It goes in cycles. Post Merckx, yes, that was the perception, that the best were men for all seasons. But you can go back before Merckx and find riders building their whole season around (say) the Tour, or another race and the Worlds. For us, it began to change before 1999, mostly with the influx on money and the rise in importance of FICP ranking. You got teams who had riders for specific parts of the season: someone to grab the low hanging fruit in the early season races, someone for the core part of the season, someone to come good in the second half of the year. Teams stopped building it all around one rider, gambling all on one rider. Mostly it was a decision (or series of decisions) bu the teams to change, not down to any individual rider(s).

 

[DirtyWorks]

Lance would have been definitely a great one day, classics rider.

1993 - World champion
1994 - second LBL and San Sebastian
1995 - 6th LBL and won San Sebastian
1996 - 2nd LBL and won Fleche Vallone

Problem is he went stratospheric afterwards, something like let's say, Sagan now at Stinkov starting to drop his teammate Contador. Froome on the other hand came straight out of the blue.

He was pre-EPO stratospheric doping for those "wins" too. Between Och(motorola???) and Carmichael it was all doped. All of it.

Do I need to remind you he registered a 9:1 T/E ratio somewhere in there? Never tested positive!

 

[fmk_RoI]

I remember that, lots of pros had to ride 200+ races a year and LeMond started cherry picking.

LeMond won the SuperPrestige in 1983 - back when the season-long competition was won by a man for all seasons.

 

[Hawkwood]

I remember that, lots of pros had to ride 200+ races a year and LeMond started cherry picking.

Wasn't the story that LeMond was one of the first to negotiate a proper pay deal that allowed him to choose the races he wanted to ride, rather than having to chase round riding whatever his sponsor wanted, or what he needed to ride for the appearance money? I guess this must have been late 80s.

 

[IzzyStradlin]

while lance lies a lot, he says one truth: he didn't use not even 20% after his comeback compared to 1994-1996. those were the wild times. someone should show the pic for the 96 oympics, lance like overeem and hematocrit over 9000.

 

[fmk_RoI]

Wasn't the story that LeMond was one of the first to negotiate a proper pay deal that allowed him to choose the races he wanted to ride, rather than having to chase round riding whatever his sponsor wanted, or what he needed to ride for the appearance money? I guess this must have been late 80s.

Two points on that. The million dollar deal (1985) is a bit of hype, Phil Anderson reputedly had a similar deal from Panasonic at the same time.

On the picking and choosing races: at Renault, Guimard has his own way of doing things, of making sure the team worked as a team, which didn't involve the big guns having to win everything, actually required the other riders to get their day in the limelight. Later, well late 80s onwards in when the FICP points became important, and that changed who raced when and where.

 

[IzzyStradlin]

while lance lies a lot, he says one truth: he didn't use not even 20% after his comeback compared to 1994-1996. those were the wild times. someone should show the pic for the 96 oympics, lance like overeem and hematocrit over 9000.

 

[Hawkwood]

Two points on that. The million dollar deal (1985) is a bit of hype, Phil Anderson reputedly had a similar deal from Panasonic at the same time.

On the picking and choosing races: at Renault, Guimard has his own way of doing things, of making sure the team worked as a team, which didn't involve the big guns having to win everything, actually required the other riders to get their day in the limelight. Later, well late 80s onwards in when the FICP points became important, and that changed who raced when and where.

Did a bit of digging and LeMond's big deal was 1989/90. Though in Fignon's autobiography he talks about devising a new form of team sponsorship deal in which he and Guimard set up a company that ran the team, sold the advertising space on the jerseys, and took a cut of the profits. So it wasn't just LeMond who started getting better remuneration.

 

[fmk_RoI]

Did a bit of digging and LeMond's big deal was 1989/90. Though in Fignon's autobiography he talks about devising a new form of team sponsorship deal in which he and Guimard set up a company that ran the team, sold the advertising space on the jerseys, and took a cut of the profits. So it wasn't just LeMond who started getting better remuneration.

89/90 was Z (five mil over three years). LeMond's original "big deal" was the million dollars (over three years) from Tapie, 84/85. By 89/90 most of the big teams were paying big money, in 84/85 it was only a few.

 

[kingjr]

while lance lies a lot, he says one truth: he didn't use not even 20% after his comeback compared to 1994-1996. those were the wild times. someone should show the pic for the 96 oympics, lance like overeem and hematocrit over 9000.

And he rode pretty much the whole TT out of the saddle.

 

[movingtarget]

Cadel won a worlds too.

Evans along with Valverde was more versatile than most GC riders. He used to ride the Ardennes races and Lombardy regularly with some good results and Valverde is a a better classics rider than a GT rider. I think if Evans concentrated on classics he could have done well and was always one of the better sprinters for a GT rider although Valverde was better, and Rodriguez was better on the steep stuff usually except for the 2010 Fleche which Evans won convincingly. Evans' Worlds win was one of his best wins but once again hesitation in the bunch helped him just like for Kwiatkowski but both wins were superbly taken.

 

[the sceptic]

Brailsford also warned Chris Froome’s rivals that they still haven’t seen the best of the 2013 Tour de France winner.

“He's 29 years old, he's still hungry and committed, and there's still room for improvement. I'm sure we'll see ongoing improvement.”

The arms race continues.

 

[zlev11]

that reads a lot like,

At some point in time, clean performances will surpass the doped performances in the past.

 

[Beech Mtn]

So Froome threatens to skip the Tour and instead to return the land of his zig-zag exploits. They do pop riders positive at the Giro, a lot more often than at the Tour in recent years. Good plan, Dawg. Godspeed.




edit-
What was this thread doing so far off the front page of the clinic? That's what happens when you go and ban The Hog.

 

[the sceptic]

Sky have lost a lot of doping expertise since the glory days of the Dawg. Would be surprised if he managed to go full mutant again.

Probably best to give tour leadership to little Richie.

 

[thehog]

So Froome threatens to skip the Tour and instead to return the land of his zig-zag exploits. They do pop riders positive at the Giro, a lot more often than at the Tour in recent years. Good plan, Dawg. Godspeed.

edit-
What was this thread doing so far off the front page of the clinic? That's what happens when you go and ban The Hog.

Bans I can cope with, the lack of a David Walsh Sky book this Christmas will put me into rehab.

Alas, it wasn't so long ago the Dawg was talking about 7 Tour wins. Now he'll be slumming it in the Giro. Maybe there will be a photo opportunity to push Greg Henderson again? Or hold onto a motocycle up the climbs?

 

[No_Balls]

Whats intresting is how could a rider whom himself just one year ago, and we saw flashes of this in 2012 the british Olympic year, rised to become one of the greatest climber ever pedalling the world, now considers a mountainous Tour not his cup of tea? Jedi mind trick or just running away from the staff Oleg collects under his umbrella?

What different a year makes

 

[Rollthedice]

Whats intresting is how could a rider whom himself just one year ago, and we saw flashes of this in 2012 the british Olympic year, rised to become the greatest climber ever pedalling the world, now considers a mountainous Tour not his cup of tea? Jedi mind trick or just running away from the staff Oleg collects under his umbrella?

What different a year makes

He is clearly not the man he used to be. Regardless of his injury in TdF the Vuelta TT was appalling. Then, before the peloton will hit the mountains next year there are some cobbles, crosswinds, Murs and maybe other surprises, not quite his cup of tea. Or maybe Brailsfraud just got dawgs latest training numbers and told him to take it easy with the Tour for now.

 

[Netbalp]

Sky have lost a lot of doping expertise since the glory days of the Dawg. Would be surprised if he managed to go full mutant again.

Probably best to give tour leadership to little Richie.

LOL. Before the Vuelta you was saying Froome would quit the career after complete fail in Spain. Fire more, thesceptic. Fun is on!

 

[the sceptic]

“The route of the Giro is really very well balanced. It will certainly be won by a complete rider and I think that’s what should happen in a Grand Tour – the one who goes best across all terrains should be rewarded,” Froome said. “For me it would be an excellent opportunity. The Tour is for climbers and will be decided in the mountains. So I’ll evaluate all the possibilities.”

I like that a climbing route suddenly doesnt benefit the Dawg anymore. Has he forgotten that he was supposed to be better than Lance uphill?

 

[thehog]

I like that a climbing route suddenly doesnt benefit the Dawg anymore. Has he forgotten that he was supposed to be better than Lance uphill?

Don't worry, Cookson will get anti-doping inhouse to the UCI and the Dawg can get back to his Badzhilla best... then make some threats to JTL to shut him up.

 

[BYOP88]

I like that a climbing route suddenly doesnt benefit the Dawg anymore. Has he forgotten that he was supposed to be better than Lance uphill?

He doesn't like climbing anymore he's going to focus on winning the WC ITT and riding Paris-Roubaix.

 

[thehog]

He doesn't like climbing anymore he's going to focus on winning the WC ITT and riding Paris-Roubaix.

Now the horse steroid loophole has been shutdown, Dawg needs to reinvent himself.

 

[LaFlorecita]

Whats intresting is how could a rider whom himself just one year ago, and we saw flashes of this in 2012 the british Olympic year, rised to become one of the greatest climber ever pedalling the world, now considers a mountainous Tour not his cup of tea? Jedi mind trick or just running away from the staff Oleg collects under his umbrella?

What different a year makes

Maybe he is not as stupid and arrogant as we all think and he actually acknowledges Alberto and Quintana in good shape can climb on his level? Just maybe?

 

[the sceptic]

He doesn't like climbing anymore he's going to focus on winning the WC ITT and riding Paris-Roubaix.

Clean riders can no longer win grand tours with too many mountains.

"the climb" needs to get updated and change its name to "the flat"