Teams & Riders Froome Talk Only

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Jul 21, 2012
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AcademyCC said:
Not much SKY chat recently. And rightly so. My own opinion is - Wiggo won the tour in 2012 clean. Poor field, parcours that suited him, strong team and couple of time trials for him to put distance into the opposition.

I actually think Nibali was fairly low octane that year, maybe even close to clean. I also think Contador was low octane in 2013. They were both thinking about being normal.

Then came along the Dawg and he massacred everyone. Alot of pressure piled on both Contador and Nibali from team/sponsors and they went back on whatever juice is floating about now. Hence we have seen both of them come back and dominate in separate events since. I wish we would have seen Froome and Contador take on Nibali at the tour - would have given a better insight.

In summary IMO - Wiggo is clean. Froome is a mutant. Contador thought about being clean then sacked it and the same for Nibali.
Wiggins is not clean. Sorry.

If anything his transformation was more mutant than Froome. Yes, he did not reach the same heights as the Dawg, but Dawg also had more talent to begin with.

Froome could climb a little bit at least. He only lost 10 minutes to Sastre on alpe and was top 30. He also showed some promise in the 2009 giro. (sideways climbing aside!)

Wiggins on the other hand could literally only climb on the level of Cavendish before his transformation. He never did anything close to top 30 on a MTF. It was autobus every day.
 
AcademyCC said:
Then came along the Dawg and he massacred everyone. Alot of pressure piled on both Contador and Nibali from team/sponsors and they went back on whatever juice is floating about now. Hence we have seen both of them come back and dominate in separate events since. I wish we would have seen Froome and Contador take on Nibali at the tour - would have given a better insight.
If I'm not mistaken Nibali was pretty mutant at the 2013 Giro. Not as bad as Froome of course but still, he'd made a massive improvement under Vino's wings. Froome only massacred everyone 2 months later.
 
Jun 5, 2014
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LaFlorecita said:
If I'm not mistaken Nibali was pretty mutant at the 2013 Giro. Not as bad as Froome of course but still, he'd made a massive improvement under Vino's wings. Froome only massacred everyone 2 months later.
IMO Nibali could have troubled Froome more than Quintana. With the form of the Giro he could have stayed ahead of Porte on Ax3 ( 35-40 seconds behind Froome) and with Quintana on the Ventoux.
Looking at his Giro MTT and the not-so-good TT from Froome in Chorges where he beat an off-form Contador + Rodriguez by 10 seconds, Nibali might have won that stage by 10 or 20 seconds.
Then...at least stay with Quintana and Purito on the Alpe...gaining a minute on Froome....and MOST importantly....the stage to Le Grand Bornand in the RAIN...which was completely smoked...

I still think Froome would have won, but not by 4:30. Much much less time.
 
Jun 5, 2014
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To further prove my point:

http://www.53x12.com/do/show?page=indepth.view&id=135

"Nibali has confirmed the progress both in his climbing and time trialling (6.4 w/kg in the 10.9 km, 7.7% gradient climb of Montasio)"

or

"Under a snow blizzard Vincenzo Nibali flew the last 3 km of the climb (370m of ascent) in 12'50", with a VAM = 1734 m/h equal to 5.78 w/kg.

Considering the average altitude of this tract (2115m above sea level) and recalling that at this altitude the partial pressure of O2 in the air is reduced by approximately 20% compared to a altitude of 500m above sea level, Nibali's performance extrapolated to sea level should be increased by at least 10%.
That gives us a VAM = 1907 m/h, equal to 6.35 w/kg."

For me, he had the same form in the Giro 2013 and in 2014 TdF.

EDIT: Altopiano di Montasio must be wrong, Uran won that stage. However, Nibali produced around 6 W/kg for more than 30 minutes in the Polsa MTT.

Source:

http://www.coachteamassistant.com/giroditalia/stimapotenzaDiegoRosatappa18giroitalia2013.aspx?NewsID=298&CategoryID=122
 
AcademyCC said:
Not much SKY chat recently. And rightly so. My own opinion is - Wiggo won the tour in 2012 clean. Poor field, parcours that suited him, strong team and couple of time trials for him to put distance into the opposition.

I actually think Nibali was fairly low octane that year, maybe even close to clean. I also think Contador was low octane in 2013. They were both thinking about being normal.

Then came along the Dawg and he massacred everyone. Alot of pressure piled on both Contador and Nibali from team/sponsors and they went back on whatever juice is floating about now. Hence we have seen both of them come back and dominate in separate events since. I wish we would have seen Froome and Contador take on Nibali at the tour - would have given a better insight.

In summary IMO - Wiggo is clean. Froome is a mutant. Contador thought about being clean then sacked it and the same for Nibali.
Wow There are some pretty massive gaps in this story, not least of all the idea that that 2 riders on the exact same team using the exact same coaching and the exact same training methods, and the exact same doctors and saying the exact same things getting the exact same transformation at more or less the exact same time to perform at the exact same level at the exact same tour de France and then essentialy have the exact same season back to back but one of them was on a full blown doping programme and the other was the cleanest cyclist in history.

It's like saying 2 of the gewiss ballan guys were doping but the one who won was clean.

I think those who say froome doped but Wiggins was clean are even more delusional than those who say both were clean. If the team were doping froome and covering it up, then every remaining argument for the idea that Wiggins would have been clean (and there aren't many) gets thrown out of the window. It makes no sense that sky would heroically try to win the tdf clean but then dope up to incredible levels the guy who is both his main domestique and will be his runner up, thereby doing everything to taint the supposedly clean victory they are about to achieve.


Then there is the idea that Wiggins won because the field was easy but froome was doped in 2012. Considering froome has the 5th fastest tt in tdf history in his 2013 performance was armstrongesque then he did not beat an easy field but one of the all time most powerful riders, even when considering that froome had to wait on the mountain stages, then you also have to accept that froome would have been 10x fresher than Wiggins in the tt because a -he has ridden the mountains at a far slower speed than he is capable unlike Wiggins who.has had 3 weeks on the limit and b he's doping. But a 10x more tired clean Wiggins still wipes the floor with froome in the final tt:eek:

do you even know how doping works, the final tt of the tdf has tended to be the event where the biggest dopers really prevail. Not for Wiggins though, for his fans who view his story as some sort of comic book. Superman defeats any evil, even when it's too powerful and makes no sense.


Then you have the question of what's the point of Wiggins being clean and sky being clean if he's being driven around by a train fill of dopers (well froome and rogers at least) and with with loads of doping staff of course.

And your idea that riders just go in and out of.doping programmes as they likez with no major performance changes either. Oh contador and Nibali try to be clean and then they dope. Yeah they thought - let's be clean, lost a race then went on eBay and bought some epo.
What on earth is that based on. Why would they randomly stop their doping programmes then randomly start again?:confused:

Why did they succumb to doping but not hero Wiggins?

And heres another question you don't seem to have considered. If froome was doping to such massive lengths in 2012 and getting away with it then was be the only doper. No one else was doping? That makes no sense either. Wiggins says he won clean because the sport cleaned up but if froome is going full pantani at that exact same time the sport is not clean. Why would none of his opponents dope, it makes no sense. Why wouldn't he for that matter. And why do you think froome is lying when he says the scar same thing but Wiggins is telling the truth.

Oh and what makes Wiggins different to froome, or Nibali. He's been far more supportive of dopers and defensive of their accomplishments than the other 2 combined. What on earth do you see in him that you don't see in those 2 that tells you he wouldn't dope.
 
Dr. Juice said:
For me, he had the same form in the Giro 2013 and in 2014 TdF.
i tell you 100%, no science bullshiit. nibali was at his strongest ever form this last july. but i really doubt he can improve far from this. but he surprised me in a good way before so i can't be sure

froomey is still at a very good level. without contador back at his best, he would have won easily the vuelta and his enemies would have been silent then. can't wait for tour de romandie 2015!!!
 
Dear Wiggo said:
Wiggins: 6.4W/kg for over an hour in the final TT of the day.

Not normal.
And carried that form into the Olympics. He was mental that year. It was the worlds longest peak in sporting history.

No wonder he gave up drinking in 2012 so he wouldn't trip the passport like JTL :cool:
 
Nov 14, 2013
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I find the posting of wedding photos with accompanying negative connotations pretty distasteful. We can do better surely?
 
Oct 19, 2014
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ralphbert said:
I find the posting of wedding photos with accompanying negative connotations pretty distasteful. We can do better surely?
Yes we can.

I think she looks quite lovely in that photo.

Froome's wife is quite a bit better looking than his bike riding style.
 
Jul 21, 2012
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hegemon said:
Yes we can.

I think she looks quite lovely in that photo.

Froome's wife is quite a bit better looking than his bike riding style.
Thanks for your valuable contribution.

Who was the best man? Walsh?
 
ralphbert said:
I find the posting of wedding photos with accompanying negative connotations pretty distasteful. We can do better surely?
I believe the person who posted did so as bait, to get the negative reactions. Poor play in my mind. I agree, leave the wedding out of general banter on here.
 
Jul 21, 2012
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thehog said:
I believe the person who posted did so as bait, to get the negative reactions. Poor play in my mind. I agree, leave the wedding out of general banter on here.
Agree. My mistake for falling for the bait.

A more interesting discussion would be if sky fans think Froome should release all his power numbers like Pinot. If Froome is cleans, what is the downside?
 
Dec 11, 2013
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the sceptic said:
what is the downside?
The down side is the same whether he's clean or dirty.
It adds fuel to the doping allegations and makes doping the conversation.


Thing is, from a Sky perspective, there's no upside.
 
Dec 11, 2013
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thehog said:
I believe the person who posted did so as bait, to get the negative reactions. Poor play in my mind. I agree, leave the wedding out of general banter on here.
Why keep the wedding out of the general 'banter'?
That makes no sense.
 

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