Teams & Riders Froome Talk Only

[BYOP88]

Re: Re:

Gilbert's is still the most ridiculous ride up the Mur. I haven't watched it in a long time but I recall he attacked like halfway through then realised oh **** the finish is quite far away, np let's just keep going.

Only better paced effort from Valverde last year was quicker, probably under worse conditions.

And Gilbert spent quite some time celebrating. Could have gone faster than Piti. Also what was funny was that he had struggled with climbs like that before. I personally did not expect him at all to win. Watching him fly away from them all was a real- WTF

Superglue your socks on tomorrow.

 

[The Hitch]

Re: Re:

Doping? Maybe but surely the thing a cycling face would want to talk about are the crashes and the injuries and sheer balls theses riders displY doing that all the time. So many abandons, hope they are fighting right soon.

So why are you only posting in the clinic?

Bad move netserk. You don't want to get on jimmys bad side. He can offer some really lethal and well argued put downs
viewtopic.php?p=1698546#p1698546

 

[the sceptic]

Re: Re:

First time for a while I've actually liked Froome's riding, ballsy move, showing some attitude earlier too. Loved Purito's win, top chap.

Doping? Maybe but surely the thing a cycling face would want to talk about are the crashes and the injuries and sheer balls theses riders displY doing that all the time. So many abandons, hope they are fighting right soon.

hahahaha still on the fence?

Never change Jim.

Froome could be riding up alpe d'huez faster than Pantani, with two blood bags hanging on his bike and Dr Ferrari giving him shots of EPO from the car and sky fans would still be like.. "yeah, Froome might be doping but I'm not sure. Going to need some evidence before I make up my mind"

 

[Taxus4a]

Re: Re:

First time for a while I've actually liked Froome's riding, ballsy move, showing some attitude earlier too. Loved Purito's win, top chap.

Doping? Maybe but surely the thing a cycling face would want to talk about are the crashes and the injuries and sheer balls theses riders displY doing that all the time. So many abandons, hope they are fighting right soon.

hahahaha still on the fence?

Never change Jim.

Froome could be riding up alpe d'huez faster than Pantani, with two blood bags hanging on his bike and Dr Ferrari giving him shots of EPO from the car and sky fans would still be like.. "yeah, Froome might be doping but I'm not sure. Going to need some evidence before I make up my mind"

Of course with EPO froome will beat Pantani recordin alp d huez, but wea re in anothe era.

Quintana climb better, after some mountain stages you will see that, becouse Froome is not a pure climber.

I dont say any BS about I am not sure, I am sure he is clean as almost sure all the riders in le Tour, becouse always can be a crazy man.

in other races is more likely those men, even no just crazy people, but not in le Tour nowadays.

In the future clean riders could beat Pantani records in al d Huez or Mayo in ventoux, but not today these riders, are out to reach except very strong tailwind with an strong team working close to the end. Maybe even in that way. But in 20 years, who knows, lot of things can improve, and very good riders can came to Africa or other parts in altitude...

 

[Taxus4a]

it is impossible to know if Pantani was a good rider as he was 41 hematocric one mont before the Giro and he finiosedh with 52, Imposible, it must be to think he was a normal climber, not very good, but he flyed with EPO, but you still consider him a reference, so you must be trolling.

 

[The_Cheech]

Re: Re:

First time for a while I've actually liked Froome's riding, ballsy move, showing some attitude earlier too. Loved Purito's win, top chap.

Doping? Maybe but surely the thing a cycling face would want to talk about are the crashes and the injuries and sheer balls theses riders displY doing that all the time. So many abandons, hope they are fighting right soon.

hahahaha still on the fence?

Never change Jim.

Froome could be riding up alpe d'huez faster than Pantani, with two blood bags hanging on his bike and Dr Ferrari giving him shots of EPO from the car and sky fans would still be like.. "yeah, Froome might be doping but I'm not sure. Going to need some evidence before I make up my mind"

If dropping a known doper (Alberto) isn't going to do it, I really do not know what will.

Maybe one day Quintana will find the marginal gains chewing coca leaves while going up the Alpe.

 

[The_Cheech]

Re:

it is impossible to know if Pantani was a good rider as he was 41 hematocric one mont before the Giro and he finiosedh with 52, Imposible, it must be to think he was a normal climber, not very good, but he flyed with EPO, but you still consider him a reference, so you must be trolling.

During the Giro, Marco had an HcT higher than 52%. Bjarne gets all the fame and glory, but I suspect he wasn't the only one making it a bad habit.

In the beginning, the doctors didn't have a good idea of how the cyclists' bodies were going to react to the different amounts of the drug, so they pretty much used them as guinea pigs.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

Did they have the WADA sample taking protocol worked out back then? Coz how you hold your head or sit or stand or lie down all impact the Hct reading from a blood sample.

 

[The_Cheech]

Re:

Did they have the WADA sample taking protocol worked out back then? Coz how you hold your head or sit or stand or lie down all impact the Hct reading from a blood sample.

Didn't they come up with the 50% HcT maximum at one point?

 

[Dear Wiggo]

Re: Re:

Did they have the WADA sample taking protocol worked out back then? Coz how you hold your head or sit or stand or lie down all impact the Hct reading from a blood sample.

Didn't they come up with the 50% HcT maximum at one point?

That's not what I am talking about. That was around 1997 or so, from poor memory.

I am talking more the standardised sample taking procedure that was implemented with the ABP.

Like this:

Effects of Posture on Hematocrit

Hematocrit reflects the balance between red blood cell production and destruction but is also known to be influenced by dehydration and body posture. Heart rate and blood pressure are higher when standing compared to sitting or lying down. The higher blood pressure when standing is associated with the movement of intravascular fluid (i.e., plasma) into interstitial compartments. This causes plasma volume to decrease and hematocrit to rise. Gore and Colleagues (1992) have reported a 6% decrease in plasma volume associated with 30 minutes of standing following 30 minutes of sitting. The following example illustrates how body position could determine whether a cyclist is disqualified or not based on the 50% hematocrit UCI ruling. If a cyclist has a blood volume of 6.0 liters and a hematocrit when sitting of 49%, then the blood would be composed of 2.94 liters of red blood cells and 3.06 liters of plasma. If the cyclist stands for 30 minutes and undergoes a 6% reduction in plasma volume, hematocrit would now rise to 50.5% and under the new UCI ruling the cyclist would be disqualified. It is worth noting, that at the Australian Institute of Sport venipucture blood draws were performed on athletes in the morning in a fasted state after remaining in a supine position for 5-10 minutes. If blood was collected from the Australian cyclists in a seated or standing position, it is likely that more than 2.8% of the blood samples would have a hematocrit greater than 50%. In attempts to control for extraneous variables such as posture, the UCI has established that blood will be taken from cyclists in the morning, before breakfast, in a seated position.

Did they do the same protocol for Pantani?

 

[IamIronMan]

Re: Re:

First time for a while I've actually liked Froome's riding, ballsy move, showing some attitude earlier too. Loved Purito's win, top chap.

Doping? Maybe but surely the thing a cycling face would want to talk about are the crashes and the injuries and sheer balls theses riders displY doing that all the time. So many abandons, hope they are fighting right soon.

hahahaha still on the fence?

Never change Jim.

Froome could be riding up alpe d'huez faster than Pantani, with two blood bags hanging on his bike and Dr Ferrari giving him shots of EPO from the car and sky fans would still be like.. "yeah, Froome might be doping but I'm not sure. Going to need some evidence before I make up my mind"

If dropping a known doper (Alberto) isn't going to do it, I really do not know what will.

Maybe one day Quintana will find the marginal gains chewing coca leaves while going up the Alpe.

Well not just Contador, we know for a fact (based on the ongoing and continuous positives) that some/many/most of these guys are on something. For Froome to dispatch all of them (as I expect him to continue to do throughout this Tour) with relative ease is all the proof I need. He is Armstrong 2.0, v.British. The ease with which LA destroyed the field year after year, and since then knowing the amount of PED's he was on, makes one wonder who could possibly believe Froome. Factually speaking, it's just not possible for "Cleans Froome" to beat the crap out of the best stage racers in the world in a race most of whom have based their entire season around (and many of whom are on some form of PED's).

 

[IamIronMan]

Re: Re:

well, to be fair to froome, he gave a warning in a pre tour interview saying that thanks to tech advancements he can beat doped times.

AFIK, this was talked about here (in the clinic). But was there a link? Please give one, I´d like to read that stuff...

Thanks in advance...

Couple of pages back. But this is a real gem:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/othersports/cycling/tour-de-france/11717440/Tour-de-France-2015-Road-to-redemption-ends-in-the-Pyrenees-if-I-get-there-says-Chris-Froome.html

Thanks...

“If you look at the difference now, those 10-15 per cent performances were back-to-back. I honestly feel that the sport is evolving through equipment.”

The revolving door of excuses for his/Sky's performances, so lol-worthy

Have to come up with some kind of bull$hit to continue the narrative!

 

[42x16ss]

Re: Re:

First time for a while I've actually liked Froome's riding, ballsy move, showing some attitude earlier too. Loved Purito's win, top chap.

Doping? Maybe but surely the thing a cycling face would want to talk about are the crashes and the injuries and sheer balls theses riders displY doing that all the time. So many abandons, hope they are fighting right soon.

hahahaha still on the fence?

Never change Jim.

Froome could be riding up alpe d'huez faster than Pantani, with two blood bags hanging on his bike and Dr Ferrari giving him shots of EPO from the car and sky fans would still be like.. "yeah, Froome might be doping but I'm not sure. Going to need some evidence before I make up my mind"

If dropping a known doper (Alberto) isn't going to do it, I really do not know what will.

Maybe one day Quintana will find the marginal gains chewing coca leaves while going up the Alpe.

Well not just Contador, we know for a fact (based on the ongoing and continuous positives) that some/many/most of these guys are on something. For Froome to dispatch all of them (as I expect him to continue to do throughout this Tour) with relative ease is all the proof I need. He is Armstrong 2.0, v.British. The ease with which LA destroyed the field year after year, and since then knowing the amount of PED's he was on, makes one wonder who could possibly believe Froome. Factually speaking, it's just not possible for "Cleans Froome" to beat the crap out of the best stage racers in the world in a race most of whom have based their entire season around (and many of whom are on some form of PED's).

But, but, his passort is British. His licence is also British. He gained 40W FTP just through becoming a dual national. His body also gained the miraculous ability to expel any and all doping products ingested - accidentally or not - like all good British athletes.

Geesh, I thought this was common knowledge

 

[BullsFan22]

Let's just wait and see if Froomey will stay upright tomorrow...

 

[JimPanzen]

Re: Re:

This coming from a 36 year old who prior to turning 30 had never shown anything of note... Froome on the other hand has had a linear progression 2011 onwards (and before hand had some decent results)...

I am ignoring the other ridiculous stuff for once and just pointing out the massive idiocy in this.

Froome before 25:

not won a single pro race
best result a forth place at Herald Sun Tour (one place in front of Richie Porte )

Rodriguez before 25:

won a stage at Vuelta
wore the Vuelta leader jersey
won a stage at Paris - Nice
finished top 10 in Tirreno GC
top 3 in spanish one day races and stage races

That's what I hate the most. I used to believe that doping in cycling is just lifitng very talented guys up severeal percent like "in a clean field, the same guys would compete for the win, just a bit slower". But with Froome it is so obvious that, out of the blue, you can turn guys with Gruppetto-Talent into dominators. So the new way to succeed in this sport is not having talent, but being a good responder to dope.

 

[heart_attack_man]

Re: Re:

This coming from a 36 year old who prior to turning 30 had never shown anything of note... Froome on the other hand has had a linear progression 2011 onwards (and before hand had some decent results)...

I am ignoring the other ridiculous stuff for once and just pointing out the massive idiocy in this.

Froome before 25:

not won a single pro race
best result a forth place at Herald Sun Tour (one place in front of Richie Porte )

Rodriguez before 25:

won a stage at Vuelta
wore the Vuelta leader jersey
won a stage at Paris - Nice
finished top 10 in Tirreno GC
top 3 in spanish one day races and stage races

That's what I hate the most. I used to believe that doping in cycling is just lifitng very talented guys up severeal percent like "in a clean field, the same guys would compete for the win, just a bit slower". But with Froome it is so obvious that, out of the blue, you can turn guys with Gruppetto-Talent into dominators. So the new way to succeed in this sport is not having talent, but being a good responder to dope.

Not new - see Armstrong. There was discussion here recently where someone posed the question about how many wins Armstrong would have in a clean field. Out of a resonably long thread, I don't think there was one person supporting that he would have won much other than the odd single-day event. But the rest of your post stands as read.

 

[JimmyFingers]

Re: Re:

Doping? Maybe but surely the thing a cycling face would want to talk about are the crashes and the injuries and sheer balls theses riders displY doing that all the time. So many abandons, hope they are fighting right soon.

So why are you only posting in the clinic?

My apologies officer Netserk

 

[Tommy79]

Re: Re:

First time for a while I've actually liked Froome's riding, ballsy move, showing some attitude earlier too. Loved Purito's win, top chap.

Doping? Maybe but surely the thing a cycling face would want to talk about are the crashes and the injuries and sheer balls theses riders displY doing that all the time. So many abandons, hope they are fighting right soon.

hahahaha still on the fence?

Never change Jim.

Froome could be riding up alpe d'huez faster than Pantani, with two blood bags hanging on his bike and Dr Ferrari giving him shots of EPO from the car and sky fans would still be like.. "yeah, Froome might be doping but I'm not sure. Going to need some evidence before I make up my mind"

If dropping a known doper (Alberto) isn't going to do it, I really do not know what will.

Maybe one day Quintana will find the marginal gains chewing coca leaves while going up the Alpe.

Well not just Contador, we know for a fact (based on the ongoing and continuous positives) that some/many/most of these guys are on something. For Froome to dispatch all of them (as I expect him to continue to do throughout this Tour) with relative ease is all the proof I need. He is Armstrong 2.0, v.British. The ease with which LA destroyed the field year after year, and since then knowing the amount of PED's he was on, makes one wonder who could possibly believe Froome. Factually speaking, it's just not possible for "Cleans Froome" to beat the crap out of the best stage racers in the world in a race most of whom have based their entire season around (and many of whom are on some form of PED's).

The recent positives are all conti level riders doping there way to being world tour riders. And knowing that a rider doped years ago doesn't prove they are doping now. Can you dismiss these points intelligently?

 

[hrotha]

Re: Re:

Doping? Maybe but surely the thing a cycling face would want to talk about are the crashes and the injuries and sheer balls theses riders displY doing that all the time. So many abandons, hope they are fighting right soon.

So why are you only posting in the clinic?

My apologies officer Netserk

Oh gods, the irony.

 

[the sceptic]

Re: Re:

Doping? Maybe but surely the thing a cycling face would want to talk about are the crashes and the injuries and sheer balls theses riders displY doing that all the time. So many abandons, hope they are fighting right soon.

So why are you only posting in the clinic?

My apologies officer Netserk

how do you still think Froome is clean?

 

[JimPanzen]

Asked David Walsh on Twitter what he thinks about Froome suddenly being a super puncheur. He said Froome done this already in 2012 (Stage 7 to Belles Filles). Belles Filles is a 6km climb though and Froome just sprinted for the line in the end...not exactly like hammering up the Mur :/

 

[Dear Wiggo]

Re:

Asked David Walsh on Twitter what he thinks about Froome suddenly being a super puncheur. He said Froome done this already in 2012 (Stage 7 to Belles Filles). Belles Filles is a 6km climb though and Froome just sprinted for the line in the end...not exactly like hammering up the Mur :/

If he doesn't block you, asking DWalsh more questions to explain how Froome does all the things he does will yield answers equally as bizarre.

Might be worth it so we can compile a list of "nuh uh" things to dismiss next time (and there will be a next time) some no name no talent cyclist suddenly bursts on to the scene.

 

[the sceptic]

Re:

Asked David Walsh on Twitter what he thinks about Froome suddenly being a super puncheur. He said Froome done this already in 2012 (Stage 7 to Belles Filles). Belles Filles is a 6km climb though and Froome just sprinted for the line in the end...not exactly like hammering up the Mur :/

ask him what he thinks about the fact that Brailsford had no interest in renewing Froomes contract or putting him on the 2011 vuelta team.

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

How long before he will be blocked by the apologist of the century:

 

[JimmyFingers]

Re: Re:

First time for a while I've actually liked Froome's riding, ballsy move, showing some attitude earlier too. Loved Purito's win, top chap.

Doping? Maybe but surely the thing a cycling face would want to talk about are the crashes and the injuries and sheer balls theses riders displY doing that all the time. So many abandons, hope they are fighting right soon.

hahahaha still on the fence?

Never change Jim.

I just give riders the benefit of the doubt, and don't hate any of them. I don't know enough to pass judgement on them, and have no interest in part of an internet lynch mob.