Teams & Riders Froome Talk Only

[LaFlorecita]

Re:

https://youtu.be/GLQ05Zwm_Eg?t=12m41s

Noticeably smoother stroke even at significantly higher cadence than AC doing his side drop thing, and jerking the pedals at a lower cadence. Froomes power transfer is almost flawless here. Even when standing. Fact.

Plebs can't get over the upper body movement, and the meme lives on.

Contador's style is a normal climbing style (see f.ex. Kiserlovski) you can imagine a kid climbing a mountain and figuring out what style makes it easiest and then he comes up with this. Froome is a lab experiment on a bike. I get sick watching it. The 150RPM seated attacks, the shopping cart pushing, the constant looking down and neck twist to look up, the elbows sticking out, almost taking down riders around him. How anyone can look at that style and enjoy it for anything but the grotesque joke it is, is beyond me.

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re: Re:

Maybe some people hate Froome because they don't like his riding style.

The real overbearing reason however is not his riding style or career progression. It is their need to constantly praise the cleanliness of their own wins.

Without spending too many words explaining it, I'll give one example, the same one I gave a week ago. There is a book out called "Mastermind: How Dave Brailsford reinvented the wheel".

That is just one example of the extremely egotistical insulting and self praising God syndrome Sky promote at every turn that even Astana and Saxo bank do not.

That's all you need to know.

Next post you make like explaining why you think some people hate Froome more, I hope to see you mention "Mastermind: how Dave Brailsford reinvented the wheel" in it

Great post Hitch.
I've been trying to explain this to the typical Sky July fanbois on twitter who for some reason keep getting into fights with me. But they're too stupid to get it. Or too blind, maybe.

 

[Supimilian]

Re: Re:

Even Contador has some more suspect habits, jerky cadence, much worse than Froome and... sideways bending of his back(NOT good). And his TT position is objectively worse.

Jerky cadence? Only when he's following on a massive gear. When he attacks his pedaling style is very fluid. I'd rather see a somewhat jerky cadence while pushing a massive gear than washing machine 150RPM spins. Bending of the back? I haven't a clue what you're talking about but it surely cannot be objectively worse than the shopping cart style combined with constant looking down and then twisting the neck in a seemingly very uncomfortable way to look ahead. TT position? Again not a clue what you're talking about, his TT position is very good.

Yes, jerky cadence. It is easier to keep a smooth cadence, and with that smooth power transfer on a bigger gear. Contador still can't be nearly as smooth with it as Froome. It can actually take some concentration to do at a high cadence, but he manages very well. This is all very easily observable even without slowing it down.
The sideways back bending is seen when he drops the head to the side when standing. A move that is not that detrimental when seated, but is very bad when climbing standing in a big gear. People that ride themselves will know this. Balance issue. Froome also tilts his head when climbing standing btw, but the pivot is at the neck, not riding with the spine bent, which makes it a non issue for him power wise.

And the TT position IS good, and ACs clearly is inferior. Wind tunnel work is hugely overrated as seen with Armstrong it was pretty much a smoke screen.

Tell me that is not aero as #¤%. Go ahead.
Just arguments from emotion from you here, I'm afraid.

 

[Walkman]

Re: Re:

https://youtu.be/GLQ05Zwm_Eg?t=12m41s

Noticeably smoother stroke even at significantly higher cadence than AC doing his side drop thing, and jerking the pedals at a lower cadence. Froomes power transfer is almost flawless here. Even when standing. Fact.

Plebs can't get over the upper body movement, and the meme lives on.

Contador's style is a normal climbing style (see f.ex. Kiserlovski) you can imagine a kid climbing a mountain and figuring out what style makes it easiest and then he comes up with this. Froome is a lab experiment on a bike. I get sick watching it. The 150RPM seated attacks, the shopping cart pushing, the constant looking down and neck twist to look up, the elbows sticking out, almost taking down riders around him. How anyone can look at that style and enjoy it for anything but the grotesque joke it is, is beyond me.

Sour grapes much?

It's hilarious that you are so anti Froome. Contador is Lance heir (like it or not, he is a Discovery/Bruyneel product) and has even been banned (but that was all a mistake, right? ). Yet when another rider comes along, and according to you, it seems, unrightfully beats AC, you resort to attack him on every front (save the doping, because well…that would be a bit too hypocritical I guess).

Your post is just one bad joke that reeks of frustration.

 

[ray j willings]

Responding to a comment Hitch made about Sky fans believing that Sky dope.

The guys I go riding with are big sky fans. They for some reason "i don't get it " feel as though anyone who rides for Sky is representing GB in some way, they regard them has GB riders.
They totally believe in the marginal gains concept and do not believe in any way whatsoever that Sky riders dope. They hate Contador because he "dopes up to the eyeballs" but love Millar because he's a good bloke and is helping cleaning up the sport.....
In all other aspects of there lives they are very cool people but when it comes to Sky, it's like they are hypnotised. We don't actually discuss doping because the last time we had that debate " nearly 2 years ago" it got very heated and my best cycling mate really lost the plot and would not accept any view about Sky except the clean/marginal gains view and stormed off in a huff.
Its almost like a religion for some fans.

 

[Walkman]

Re: Re:

We know the sport is corrupt.

I'm not Tommy79 but I need to replay to you.

You said it your self, the sport is corrupted. So why is all hate and blame put on Froome?
It would be unfair if every single rider except Froome was clean, but that is probably not the case. If he is cheating, than so is the most of the peloton. So why does it matter if Froome is clean or not? He is the best! The best among other dopers or the best among other clean riders, the fact is that he is the best.

from what I gathered, the problem is not if Froome dopes, but it´s Brailsford´s narrative, Walsh fanboyism, UK fans blindness, Froome sudden 2011 explosion, Sky marginal gains stories

that makes him unbearable to many, while Nibali or Contador who dope like him, but had a more "normal" career progression and are not backed by cycling fans who discovered the wheel in 2012, are more accepted, and cheered.
that´s what sometimes gets me lost, usually on twitter, people cheer for some riders but are anti-doping, and the only thing they say is "oh no fycking Froome again"..

Maybe some people hate Froome because they don't like his riding style.

The real overbearing reason however is not his riding style or career progression. It is their need to constantly praise the cleanliness of their own wins.

Without spending too many words explaining it, I'll give one example, the same one I gave a week ago. There is a book out called "Mastermind: How Dave Brailsford reinvented the wheel".

That is just one example of the extremely egotistical insulting and self praising God syndrome Sky promote at every turn that even Astana and Saxo bank do not.

That's all you need to know.

Next post you make like explaining why you think some people hate Froome more, I hope to see you mention "Mastermind: how Dave Brailsford reinvented the wheel" in it

First of all, I actually do believe in the "marginal gains". Not saying that they are clean, but doping + marginal gains > just doping. And before you say that "wouldn't every team do everything to win?!", you should already know that the answer is no. Just look around you, do people in your surroundings do everything to maximize their lives and their potentials? No, most people don't. Most companies don't and most athletes don't. Why? Because it just too much of a sacrifice for most people.

Bolded:

Astana who is in the MPCC and at the very first roadbumb that would require some sacrifice on their part jumps ship, how is that not on the same level of SKY? I mean, Astana have had what, like 3-4 riders getting popped the last year.

 

[Sunny]

Re: Re:

How anyone can look at that style and enjoy it for anything but the grotesque joke it is, is beyond me.

There are no points/awards for nice riding style in cycling.

For everyone who enjoys elegance and grace in movement I would recommend sports like figure skating or equestrian sports.

Besides, Froome's riding stile is clearly perfectly efficient (at least for him).

 

[hrotha]

Re: Re:

Besides, Froome's riding stile is clearly perfectly efficient (at least for him).

We don't know that. We know he still produces enough net watts to be one of the top contenders; we don't know that he doesn't waste more watts than his rivals.

 

[Saint Unix]

The "marginal gains" shpiel is mostly just a fugazi used by Sky to explain how they're going so fast. Most of the so-called marginal gains they've listed are things that every team does (or have started doing since Sky started with it) and/or things that have absolutely no effect on performance.

Either way, there's no way in hell any amount of marginal gains will have you riding as fast or faster than the performances of the superdopers from the mid-nineties and turn of the millennium.

 

[Supimilian]

Re: Re:

Besides, Froome's riding stile is clearly perfectly efficient (at least for him).

We don't know that. We know he still produces enough net watts to be one of the top contenders; we don't know that he doesn't waste more watts than his rivals.

Oh, we do. At least some of them.
But it's mostly drowned out in fanboys and snarky members verbally jerking each other like AC jerks the pedals when wasting said watts.
I agree with most of the "marginal gains" just being talk with little to no substance, but in this particular regard he is getting criticized for something he actually is pretty good at.

 

[meat puppet]

ugh, marginal gains is just a fancy media branded name for paying attention to details. it is not ridiculous to assert that it is beneficial to pay attention. but it is ridiculous to imply no one else does but sky, and on top of that make a big media fuss about it. then again, media coverage and most importantly the framing of the issue decides the way public opinion goes, even among the subgroup of cycling followers. so it is a non-marginal gain to be backed up by a sizeable media player.

other than that I have a hunch that froome will provide climbing data that allows this debate move beyond aesthetic preferences. as though any further data is needed on top of 2011, 2012 and 2013 GTs as well as several stage races...

 

[The Hitch]

Re: Re:

We know the sport is corrupt.

I'm not Tommy79 but I need to replay to you.

You said it your self, the sport is corrupted. So why is all hate and blame put on Froome?
It would be unfair if every single rider except Froome was clean, but that is probably not the case. If he is cheating, than so is the most of the peloton. So why does it matter if Froome is clean or not? He is the best! The best among other dopers or the best among other clean riders, the fact is that he is the best.

from what I gathered, the problem is not if Froome dopes, but it´s Brailsford´s narrative, Walsh fanboyism, UK fans blindness, Froome sudden 2011 explosion, Sky marginal gains stories

that makes him unbearable to many, while Nibali or Contador who dope like him, but had a more "normal" career progression and are not backed by cycling fans who discovered the wheel in 2012, are more accepted, and cheered.
that´s what sometimes gets me lost, usually on twitter, people cheer for some riders but are anti-doping, and the only thing they say is "oh no fycking Froome again"..

Maybe some people hate Froome because they don't like his riding style.

The real overbearing reason however is not his riding style or career progression. It is their need to constantly praise the cleanliness of their own wins.

Without spending too many words explaining it, I'll give one example, the same one I gave a week ago. There is a book out called "Mastermind: How Dave Brailsford reinvented the wheel".

That is just one example of the extremely egotistical insulting and self praising God syndrome Sky promote at every turn that even Astana and Saxo bank do not.

That's all you need to know.

Next post you make like explaining why you think some people hate Froome more, I hope to see you mention "Mastermind: how Dave Brailsford reinvented the wheel" in it

First of all, I actually do believe in the "marginal gains". Not saying that they are clean, but doping + marginal gains > just doping. And before you say that "wouldn't every team do everything to win?!", you should already know that the answer is no. Just look around you, do people in your surroundings do everything to maximize their lives and their potentials? No, most people don't. Most companies don't and most athletes don't. Why? Because it just too much of a sacrifice for most people.

Bolded: .

You're talking about people who dedicate their lives to their career many of whom risk their health by doping.

So, no.

That was quite a pathetic attempt actually. Try again.

 

[Walkman]

Re: Re:

You're talking about people who dedicate their lives to their career many of whom risk their health by doping.

So, no.

That was quite a pathetic attempt actually. Try again.

Speaking from experience are we?

I just so happens to be an ex elite athlete so I well know that most pro athletes could do more to maximize their results. Heck, I even know an athlete who is ranked fourth in the world (not a cyclist) and even this person admits that he/she could do more. I have trained with World champion medalists and I have seen their rise and demise up close so stop talking about things you obviously know nothing about.

Wiggins said 2010 was a result of poor focus. He was on the pub drinking and didn't put in the effort required to perform and thus the results dropped. But this is just all lies, right?

 

[Cycle Chic]

In Le Monde today

http://tourdefrance.blog.lemonde.fr/2015/07/08/etape-5-un-parcours-pour-lhistoire-et-les-sprinteurs/

 

[the sceptic]

Re:

other than that I have a hunch that froome will provide climbing data that allows this debate move beyond aesthetic preferences. as though any further data is needed on top of 2011, 2012 and 2013 GTs as well as several stage races...

Froome already admitted that he climbs faster than known EPO dopers so.. I think this can only mean he is going to go maximum mutant in the mountains.

 

[TheSpud]

Re: Re:

You're talking about people who dedicate their lives to their career many of whom risk their health by doping.

So, no.

That was quite a pathetic attempt actually. Try again.

Speaking from experience are we?

I just so happens to be an ex elite athlete so I well know that most pro athletes could do more to maximize their results. Heck, I even know an athlete who is ranked fourth in the world (not a cyclist) and even this person admits that he/she could do more. I have trained with World champion medalists and I have seen their rise and demise up close so stop talking about things you obviously know nothing about.

Wiggins said 2010 was a result of poor focus. He was on the pub drinking and didn't put in the effort required to perform and thus the results dropped. But this is just all lies, right?

Touché

 

[TheSpud]

Brilliant!

 

[gillan1969]

Re: Re:

You're talking about people who dedicate their lives to their career many of whom risk their health by doping.

So, no.

That was quite a pathetic attempt actually. Try again.

Speaking from experience are we?

I just so happens to be an ex elite athlete so I well know that most pro athletes could do more to maximize their results. Heck, I even know an athlete who is ranked fourth in the world (not a cyclist) and even this person admits that he/she could do more. I have trained with World champion medalists and I have seen their rise and demise up close so stop talking about things you obviously know nothing about.

Wiggins said 2010 was a result of poor focus. He was on the pub drinking and didn't put in the effort required to perform and thus the results dropped. But this is just all lies, right?

yup the same wiggins that was so unfocussed in 1999 that when asked what his escape from the rigors and demands of the focussed lifestyle of an elite athlete he said butter on his toast.... that wiggins? ;-)

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re: Re:

Sour grapes much?

It's hilarious that you are so anti Froome. Contador is Lance heir (like it or not, he is a Discovery/Bruyneel product) and has even been banned (but that was all a mistake, right? ). Yet when another rider comes along, and according to you, it seems, unrightfully beats AC, you resort to attack him on every front (save the doping, because well…that would be a bit too hypocritical I guess).

Your post is just one bad joke that reeks of frustration.

You're hilarious still upset because Alberto kicked Andy's ass on every occasion?

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re: Re:

[Yes, jerky cadence. It is easier to keep a smooth cadence, and with that smooth power transfer on a bigger gear. Contador still can't be nearly as smooth with it as Froome. It can actually take some concentration to do at a high cadence, but he manages very well. This is all very easily observable even without slowing it down.
The sideways back bending is seen when he drops the head to the side when standing. A move that is not that detrimental when seated, but is very bad when climbing standing in a big gear. People that ride themselves will know this. Balance issue. Froome also tilts his head when climbing standing btw, but the pivot is at the neck, not riding with the spine bent, which makes it a non issue for him power wise.

And the TT position IS good, and ACs clearly is inferior. Wind tunnel work is hugely overrated as seen with Armstrong it was pretty much a smoke screen.

Tell me that is not aero as #¤%. Go ahead.
Just arguments from emotion from you here, I'm afraid.

You're using another rider's riding style to talk up Froome's style, I see it know.

Fact is, Contador's climbing style works very well for him and allows him to ride the way he wants - with big tempo changes and sudden accelerations. It is the style that comes natural to him.
Of course it isn't as smooth as Froome's. Contador uses his weight and swings the bike left and right to push on the pedals. Froome spins the pedals. Of course the second is going to be smoother. That doesn't mean it is the best way for everyone to get the watts out.
The out-of-the-saddle riding style is clearly an effective style as other riders use similar climbing techniques.

About the head tilt, read this post by Carols in the pro racing section: http://forum.cyclingnews.imdserve.com/viewtopic.php?p=1244306&sid=025cf92dc1c257f0a967fb1f6e58f4f9#p1244306

About the TT position, Froome's position being aero, does not exclude Contador's from being aero too.
Nothing wrong with this TT position

You're talking down another rider's style and position (a rider who's style is widely regarded as very pleasant to watch) because you're upset people criticize Froome's style and position on the bike. I don't see how that is going to help you out in any way.

 

[Walkman]

Re: Re:

Sour grapes much?

It's hilarious that you are so anti Froome. Contador is Lance heir (like it or not, he is a Discovery/Bruyneel product) and has even been banned (but that was all a mistake, right? ). Yet when another rider comes along, and according to you, it seems, unrightfully beats AC, you resort to attack him on every front (save the doping, because well…that would be a bit too hypocritical I guess).

Your post is just one bad joke that reeks of frustration.

You're hilarious still upset because Alberto kicked Andy's ass on every occasion?

Yeah, because I was such an Andy fan…

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re: Re:

Yeah, because I was such an Andy fan…

Sure seems/seemed that way from your posts!

 

[Supimilian]

Re: Re:

[Yes, jerky cadence. It is easier to keep a smooth cadence, and with that smooth power transfer on a bigger gear. Contador still can't be nearly as smooth with it as Froome. It can actually take some concentration to do at a high cadence, but he manages very well. This is all very easily observable even without slowing it down.
The sideways back bending is seen when he drops the head to the side when standing. A move that is not that detrimental when seated, but is very bad when climbing standing in a big gear. People that ride themselves will know this. Balance issue. Froome also tilts his head when climbing standing btw, but the pivot is at the neck, not riding with the spine bent, which makes it a non issue for him power wise.

And the TT position IS good, and ACs clearly is inferior. Wind tunnel work is hugely overrated as seen with Armstrong it was pretty much a smoke screen.

Tell me that is not aero as #¤%. Go ahead.
Just arguments from emotion from you here, I'm afraid.

You're using another rider's riding style to talk up Froome's style, I see it know.

Fact is, Contador's climbing style works very well for him and allows him to ride the way he wants - with big tempo changes and sudden accelerations. It is the style that comes natural to him.
Of course it isn't as smooth as Froome's. Contador uses his weight and swings the bike left and right to push on the pedals. Froome spins the pedals. Of course the second is going to be smoother. That doesn't mean it is the best way for everyone to get the watts out.
The out-of-the-saddle riding style is clearly an effective style as other riders use similar climbing techniques.

About the head tilt, read this post by Carols in the pro racing section: http://forum.cyclingnews.imdserve.com/viewtopic.php?p=1244306&sid=025cf92dc1c257f0a967fb1f6e58f4f9#p1244306

About the TT position, Froome's position being aero, does not exclude Contador's from being aero too.
Nothing wrong with this TT position

You're talking down another rider's style and position (a rider who's style is widely regarded as very pleasant to watch) because you're upset people criticize Froome's style and position on the bike. I don't see how that is going to help you out in any way.

I have no horse in this race. It's just as annoying when people are foolishly biased in favor of Sky.
I do however have a problem with people talk out of their rear end trying to compile the non-evidence with issues that are potentially real, regardless of parties involved. It has just went too far here.
All I have been doing is stating facts and backing it up. And I do have a background that should give some qualifications in judging this, but what has been presented should let me comfortably avoid pulling rank on you. Should.
And still: Contadors TT position is generally worse than Froome. It just is.
That a fanboys "counter image" has him in a worse position says all that needs to be said.

 

[LaFlorecita]

Go ahead then, tell me what's so terribly wrong with that TT position.

 

[Supimilian]

Re:

Go ahead then, tell me what's so terribly wrong with that TT position.

More tense upper body. Looking down in this shot makes his head position look lower than it usually is. It looks better than it usually is from him in this photo. But still worse.
I never said it was a TERRIBLE position. Never even said it was a bad one ffs.
But it is not AS GOOD as Froomes, which is actually pretty damn good.