Teams & Riders Froome Talk Only

[ggusta]

it never changes. cycling permits (or is 'encourages' more apropos??) itself to be defined by dope,

The only thing new is the year imprinted on the calendar.

 

[86TDFWinner]

Re:

it never changes. cycling permits (or is 'encourages' more apropos??) itself to be defined by dope,

The only thing new is the year imprinted on the calendar.

And Cookson's "transparency"(or lack there of), also aids that too.

 

[buckle]

The Mail on Sunday has learned that after Froome’s breakthrough ride for the British team in the 2011 Vuelta a España, Team Sky general manager Dave Brailsford asked a team doctor if he thought Froome was doping.

‘Dave Brailsford asked the doctor to explain Froome’s transformation and wondered if drugs were being used,’ a source told us. ‘The doctor had no explanation and his own contract was not renewed.’

The Mail on Sunday knows his identity and it is believed he has an entirely unblemished record.

A Team Sky insider said it would not be unusual for Brailsford to want his staff to explain to him how and why riders are excelling. ‘That’s normal,’ a source said. ‘It’s healthy to ask questions and if there had ever been any doubts whatsoever about Chris Froome, the team would have investigated and if there had been anything untoward, he’d have gone.’

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/othersports/article-3166687/Sky-quizzed-doctor-Chris-Froome-s-integrity-following-British-cyclist-s-breakthrough-ride-2011.html?ITO=1490&ns_mchannel=rss&ns_campaign=1490

EDIT:I remember Freeman saying he had doubts after that Vuelta but he stayed on the team afterwards.

It's ok to question Froome's performances then? Thanks we will.

 

[ggusta]

Re: Re:

how in the world a clean no-name rider like Froome becomes a force in TdF at the age of 27-28 and smashes all these well known dopers and great climbers?

Easy.
1) Dope
2) More Dope
3) Clean Urine

 

[autologous]

‘Dave Brailsford asked the doctor to explain Froome’s transformation and wondered if drugs were being used,’ a source told us. ‘The doctor had no explanation and his own contract was not renewed.’

The Mail on Sunday knows his identity and it is believed he has an entirely unblemished record.

A Team Sky insider said it would not be unusual for Brailsford to want his staff to explain to him how and why riders are excelling.

oh man, DB could have saved himself a bunch of time and asked theSpud.

Wiggo's chain for the hour record reputedly cost in excess of £10k. Not because it was necessarily special materials but because the manufacturer took 10 chains (I think) and analysed them to the highest degree to find the one with the least resistance. After that they then cleaned / lubed it over and over to make it better still - it was labour hours that made the cost. THAT is a marginal gain.

So what if Sky have that for the tour? What if that saves enough energy to go at 395W instead of 400W? Thats a 1.25% gain ...

And if that can be done for chains - what about hubs, bottom brackets, etc.???

or, was the marginal gains explanation invented after Froome's transformation?
what a surprise.

 

[contador977]

Re: Re:

Froome is a doper.

In my view Froome is clean.

Thats my view, like yours is above ...

Take Froome out of the equation and the next 5 guys are all within 1:30 of each other. In the Top 15, Froomes 3:10 lead over the rider behind him, is the largest gap in that Top 15 riders.

Oh and that 3:10 could be 6 mintues right now. He could have attacked today...see that sprint at the end? Fresh as a daisy. He could win every mountain stage for the rest of the Tour. He is holding back.

The transformation in 2011 is suspicious....maybe motivated by losing his job in cycling?

 

[doperhopper]

The Mail on Sunday has learned that after Froome’s breakthrough ride for the British team in the 2011 Vuelta a España, Team Sky general manager Dave Brailsford asked a team doctor if he thought Froome was doping.

‘Dave Brailsford asked the doctor to explain Froome’s transformation and wondered if drugs were being used,’ a source told us. ‘The doctor had no explanation and his own contract was not renewed.’

The Mail on Sunday knows his identity and it is believed he has an entirely unblemished record.

A Team Sky insider said it would not be unusual for Brailsford to want his staff to explain to him how and why riders are excelling. ‘That’s normal,’ a source said. ‘It’s healthy to ask questions and if there had ever been any doubts whatsoever about Chris Froome, the team would have investigated and if there had been anything untoward, he’d have gone.’

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/othersports/article-3166687/Sky-quizzed-doctor-Chris-Froome-s-integrity-following-British-cyclist-s-breakthrough-ride-2011.html?ITO=1490&ns_mchannel=rss&ns_campaign=1490

EDIT:I remember Freeman saying he had doubts after that Vuelta but he stayed on the team afterwards.

Poor Sky doctors must be already afraid of the inevitable questions about Geraint.

 

[AJ101]

The issue from this daily mail article is surely this...

They have admitted to one error by Froome, however. At the 2014 Vuelta, last September, a sample bottle containing Froome’s urine was left outside his bedroom at a hotel in A Coruña.
It was in a corridor used by hotel guests and was examined by a member of the public before being left where it was found.
The person who found it later contacted Team Sky to ask why it had been left out. Fran Millar, Team Sky’s Head of Winning Behaviours, replied in an email: ‘It will have been entirely innocent and for that reason maybe the riders aren’t as careful as they should be — when you have nothing to hide you tend not to hide things!

Why leave a bottle of p*ss outside his hotel room?
Are the testers just popping along to pick it up later and hoping it's his and not someone else's like his mechanic?

Or someone connected with Sky feels the need to run urine tests on their own riders? And for what purpose?

 

[ggusta]

The issue from this daily mail article is surely this...

They have admitted to one error by Froome, however. At the 2014 Vuelta, last September, a sample bottle containing Froome’s urine was left outside his bedroom at a hotel in A Coruña.
It was in a corridor used by hotel guests and was examined by a member of the public before being left where it was found.
The person who found it later contacted Team Sky to ask why it had been left out. Fran Millar, Team Sky’s Head of Winning Behaviours, replied in an email: ‘It will have been entirely innocent and for that reason maybe the riders aren’t as careful as they should be — when you have nothing to hide you tend not to hide things!

Why leave a bottle of p*ss outside his hotel room?
Are the testers just popping along to pick it up later and hoping it's his and not someone else's like his mechanic?

Or someone connected with Sky feels the need to run urine tests on their own riders? And for what purpose?

Already showing some of their strategy for when the latest house of cards starts to collapse.....

 

[Señor_Contador]

It's ok to question Froome's performances then? Thanks we will.

No, I think DB means it's OK for him to question Froome's meteoric rise to the top of the sport.

I'm sure he didn't mean journalists or fans.

 

[AICA ribonucleotide]

The issue from this daily mail article is surely this...

They have admitted to one error by Froome, however. At the 2014 Vuelta, last September, a sample bottle containing Froome’s urine was left outside his bedroom at a hotel in A Coruña.
It was in a corridor used by hotel guests and was examined by a member of the public before being left where it was found.
The person who found it later contacted Team Sky to ask why it had been left out. Fran Millar, Team Sky’s Head of Winning Behaviours, replied in an email: ‘It will have been entirely innocent and for that reason maybe the riders aren’t as careful as they should be — when you have nothing to hide you tend not to hide things!

Why leave a bottle of p*ss outside his hotel room?
Are the testers just popping along to pick it up later and hoping it's his and not someone else's like his mechanic?

Or someone connected with Sky feels the need to run urine tests on their own riders? And for what purpose?

Pissing in bottles is the ultimate marginal gain.

 

[autologous]

The issue from this daily mail article is surely this...

They have admitted to one error by Froome, however. At the 2014 Vuelta, last September, a sample bottle containing Froome’s urine was left outside his bedroom at a hotel in A Coruña.
It was in a corridor used by hotel guests and was examined by a member of the public before being left where it was found.
The person who found it later contacted Team Sky to ask why it had been left out. Fran Millar, Team Sky’s Head of Winning Behaviours, replied in an email: ‘It will have been entirely innocent and for that reason maybe the riders aren’t as careful as they should be — when you have nothing to hide you tend not to hide things!

holy sh*t, is that her real job title?
wtf, getting Orwellian

 

[The Hitch]

Re:

I wonder when people realise that it's not about Froome but the fact that Contador is in piss poor form, just like Nibali.

How comes its so hard for Contador and Nibali and every other rider in the peloton to get form but Wiggo and now Froome can peak for any race they want to at ease?

 

[Dear Wiggo]

Re: Re:

Irony is lost on people emotionally involved. It is nice to see the Muscular Christianity Gordonstoun crowd getting their knickers in a twist. Did they catch the culprit yet? It was probably Vayer...

You're beginning to sound like Blackcat with the Gordonstoun stuff. Massive chips on your shoulders ...

Mmmm chips. Go great with gravy.

 

[blackcat]

The issue from this daily mail article is surely this...

They have admitted to one error by Froome, however. At the 2014 Vuelta, last September, a sample bottle containing Froome’s urine was left outside his bedroom at a hotel in A Coruña.
It was in a corridor used by hotel guests and was examined by a member of the public before being left where it was found.
The person who found it later contacted Team Sky to ask why it had been left out. Fran Millar, Team Sky’s Head of Winning Behaviours, replied in an email: ‘It will have been entirely innocent and for that reason maybe the riders aren’t as careful as they should be — when you have nothing to hide you tend not to hide things!

holy sh*t, is that her real job title?
wtf, getting Orwellian

winning behaviours is sir Dave's personal name for his priapus

 

[The Hitch]

If Froome was so absolutely terrible pre-2011 then why did SKY sign him?

They must have seen some natural ability there, I mean Sir David B is no dummy is he?

Someone on here was claiming Teklehaimanot destroyed Froome in an African championship race. Well, why didn't SKY sign him then?

The point I am making is that SKY would not sign any old hack entitled to a British passport with the expectation their methods would turn them into champion.

Froome MUST have had something about him to catch their interest and invest so much time, effort and money into project Chris.

Brailsford signed quite a few who didn't turn into champions. http://cqranking.com/men/asp/gen/team.asp?year=2010&teamcode=SKY

Inside the mind of Dave Brailsford:
http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/news/inside-the-mind-of-dave-brailsford-2615

Article should have just stopped here:

There was a perception, during Team Sky’s first season, that Brailsford and his closest colleagues had attempted to redesign the wheel. Feathers were ruffled by their declarations that they were going to look at every aspect of professional cycling and see if certain things could be done better. In the end it seems everyone – including rival team managers – concluded that Team Sky was just like the rest except they had a more expensive bus.

Instead he's then made out to he a genius by explaining how cq rankings works, something any 5 year old can figure out. - sprinters score on sprint stages while climbers score on mountains, said in a long winded way to make it sound like this conclusion is the product of some sort of intense research that only brailsfords super brain could perform.

 

[BigMac]

Didn't watch today's stage but saw an instagram picture of Quintana attacking followed by Nibali and VV and immediately thought Froome lost time today and was eager to check the results.

Oh well, why did I even expect anything else.

 

[blackcat]

Instead he's then made out to he a genius by explaining how cq rankings works, something any 5 year old can figure out. - sprinters score on sprint stages while climbers score on mountains, said in a long winded way to make it sound like this conclusion is the product of some sort of intense research that only brailsfords super brain could perform.

I don't know who the most intelligent, wrt cycling knowledge and past 2 decades, but would be difficult to trump Libertine Seguros. But she could say, the CQ rank will measure which riders will ride to the finish line. How many French and Italian riders and teams give a $hit about a 9th or 11th place. P'raps in the Tour and the Tommy Voeklers of the peloton.

And if you are Albasini or Impey you will never score a point, except you are equally deservent of the points Gerrans will score. Renshaw could ride alot of top 10s, but comes 30th on everystage. CQ ranking and the old UCI points ranking, means little to the traditional teams and riders. They care less for podium results too, in cycling, there is one thing that counts, wins, and jerseys. nothing else matters. It might be a little difficult writing bonuses into a contract, but contracts are usually lag indicators of your performances over the previous season, so your results will be reflected in your next contract. And if you do some decent rides in the tour, you will get more money in Boxmeer and Stiphout crits.

 

[blackcat]

Re: Re:

THAT is a marginal gain.

So what if Sky have that for the tour? What if that saves enough energy to go at 395W instead of 400W? Thats a 1.25% gain ...

And if that can be done for chains - what about hubs, bottom brackets, etc.???

Costly in £ terms but when you have the biggest budget on the planet you can pay for it. Do BMC, SAXO, others have that kind of ££?


*** APOLOGIES ON THE QUOTE AT THE TOP - I HAD TO DELETE STUFF AND GOT IT WRONG, NOT TRYING To MISREP BENOTTI ***

no no no, that is not a marginal gain. that is gaming the system. instrumentalist, consequentialist. utilitarian.

They have been riding chains for a century. I don't buy this story, I think this is a maslow's hammer fallacy (more so, a phallicy[sic]) from the communications manager having to prove relevancy. They may not have made it up, but whose business is this, is it really promoting the ride and the rider? I am indifferent, I am not saying it was made up, but I aint buying it. 'specially on this meta level. its thoroughly irrelevant.

and one could ask, does he deserve to set a record by 5 metres with lubricant or his legs? #mickeyjuice

 

[M Sport]

Sky's PR machine would have us believe all the other teams use stock parts out of the box. Saxo says hello from 2010, Postal say hello from 2000.

It's not about the bike.

 

[blackcat]

I suspect it might take more than thirty years for SKY to be exposed. They are that well protected. To give an example, Germany pulled down the Berlin Wall twenty five years ago. What people don't know is that the British army built a five km "peace wall" in Belfast more than forty years ago and it is still operational but nobody knows about it. If you can keep a huge wall secret for that length of time, a doping program is child's play.

More "protected" than Wonderboy? Doubtful. Someone from Sky will piss someone else off, and voila! The hammer will fall. Wonderboy was WELL protected for over a decade, but cracks showed almost immediately.

but you have not concerned yourself with the structural factors of releasing the proof. yes there is the internet. yes there is wikileaks. But you need to get an ADA and UK anti-doping and WADA to pursue it.

Armstrong at his apogee, could not be taken down. but guys like Dave LEtterman would not have believed him, even tho they gave him airtime in his reign. These are the cultural and institutional organising elements that society creates its lore and myth. Kerry and GW Bush knew the guy was an utter pr!ck.

it required FL and Qui Tam, and ASADA.

Will the Saudi sheik allow News Corp, the paper not the entertainment company, will they split it up when Murdoch dies in the next decade? The Sheik owns significant stake of voting stock in news.

Have a look behind Sky Pro Cycling. Look at the UK society, the honour system of the UK, the knightoods and other decoration. They dont spit in the soup, look at how deep the News Of The World hacking went. It went straight to #10Downing Street, and the Met pohleece. Andy Coulson, Murdoch, Jimmy Saville.

people know these truths but they never have an critical mass fora for publishing.

Murdoch and print still hold the critical mass, print influences broadcast media, print and papers of record set the agenda. How many papers of record in Spain have done an expose of Indurain? And looking at the establishment class and honour system in London, it would take a truly significant event for someone to take down Sky and BC over the last decade, Hoy Wiggins Froome Cavendish, there are 2 knighthoods, plus Brailsfor for three, and p'raps Froome and Cavendish to come. And Geraint Thomas and Kennaugh are linging up to fill their pockets with the winnings in July. They might have taken down the legacy of Saville, but how about the pedophile rings operating in parliament over the last 4 decades?

it is more likely these things stay hidden to the critical mass. The papers of record largely reinforce the powerbase of the establishment class.

 

[pastronef]

If Froome was so absolutely terrible pre-2011 then why did SKY sign him?

They must have seen some natural ability there, I mean Sir David B is no dummy is he?

Someone on here was claiming Teklehaimanot destroyed Froome in an African championship race. Well, why didn't SKY sign him then?

The point I am making is that SKY would not sign any old hack entitled to a British passport with the expectation their methods would turn them into champion.

Froome MUST have had something about him to catch their interest and invest so much time, effort and money into project Chris.

There is some natural ability there. It's just that very, very few of us are convinced that the capabilities shown in 2008 and 2009 with Barloworld are consistent with the capabilities shown after he seemingly entered the Konami code and enabled God mode in late August 2011.

As I have said, now dozens of times on this forum, I believe that Chris Froome had bilharzia and that it is, in whole or in part, responsible for his stagnation and regression from mid-2009 to mid-2011. I also do not believe that the talent that he showed (which suggested to me he could be a usable mountain domestique along the lines of maybe Egoi Martínez; Chris Anker Sørensen is the name I've typically used as an upper ceiling on what I thought he could be) explains the talent that he has shown since his transformation, and that owing to the lack of results preceding it his ascent to the pinnacle of the sport is far more ridiculous than Mosquera (who had top 10ed the 2-week Volta a Portugal and most of the Spanish week-long stage races before hitting 5th in a very conservatively-raced Vuelta) or Kohl (who had podiumed the Dauphiné and the Österreichrundfahrt). He belonged in the file with Santiago Pérez. The passport helped him get a Sky contract over similar moderately talented young climbers, but we cannot forget that coming into the 2011 Vuelta - a race he only started because a teammate got sick - he did not have a contract for 2012, and though Garmin and Lampre have said they were looking at him, he'd have been looking at WT minimum wage domestique salaries there. Given that, at that point, Sky's schtick about a British Tour winner in 5 years seemed uncertain as Wiggins was still a one-hit wonder who'd failed miserably in one attempt and crashed out of another attempt to duplicate his Tour success (this was before the Vuelta podium remember), you would think that if they had a British rider on the books who had the potential to match Lance Armstrong's best times and to do it clean, they wouldn't be on the verge of letting him go to a comparatively low budget team like Lampre for peanuts.

He wasn't even the most talented African climber on Barloworld in 2008. John-Lee Augustyn was.

nice posts.
so did he use high octane fuel for that Vuelta by himself, to get a 2012 contract or did Sky used him as a guinea pig?

and if he did it by himself in 2011, then did Sky decide to put hom on the "program" the following year?

 

[blackcat]

nice posts.
so did he use high octane fuel for that Vuelta by himself, to get a 2012 contract or did Sky used him as a guinea pig?

and if he did it by himself in 2011, then did Sky decide to put hom on the "program" the following year?

obviously by himself, was he listed on the squad before the Tour of Poland, or was he a late inclusion, i think he may have been lobbying for a final opportunity at Sky and went all in in poker parlance

 

[blackcat]

That just reminded me of Isidro Nozal. He was another guy who had a classic Froome-esque transformation at the Vuelta back in '03. Nearly won it despite little palmarès to speak of beforehand. Grew to notoriety because he didn't shower during Grand Tours because of thinking it would soften his muscles. Can only imagine what would have been going on at ONCE had this kind of reaction been faced. In the 40º+ heat of southern Spain too. Ugh.

buffalo gonzalez in giro, and the other gonzalez beating oscarlito in spain for kelme too, and when cunego beats simoni, quite a few mega *** transformations in three week races

 

[pastronef]

nice posts.
so did he use high octane fuel for that Vuelta by himself, to get a 2012 contract or did Sky used him as a guinea pig?

and if he did it by himself in 2011, then did Sky decide to put hom on the "program" the following year?

obviously by himself, was he listed on the squad before the Tour of Poland, or was he a late inclusion, i think he may have been lobbying for a final opportunity at Sky and went all in in poker parlance

ok, but from 2012 on, I don't think he's doing it my himself