Teams & Riders Froome Talk Only

[arvc40]

Froome is clean and human. Look how he cracked Lol.

 

["Jeff"]

What a difference in pace compared to the EPO years (@l'Alpe D'Huez)...wow. You actually see them climb again, like in the 80s.

I think Quintana time was around 38m30sec.

My record 1h and 35sec and it was my 2nd climb.

 

[FroomehasneverdopedX]

its good to see the biggest pharmacy won tdf yet again

 

[SeriousSam]

Re:

[quote=""Jeff"":yex7nphb]What a difference in pace compared to the EPO years (@l'Alpe D'Huez)...wow. You actually see them climb again, like in the 80s.
[/quote]
Indeed, much slower then the EPO years. Here is where Quintana's record is located in the all time list:

21. 1997: 39:20 Francesco Casagrande 21.05 km/h / Nairo Quinata (not confirmed)
22. 1997: 39:21 Bjarne Riis 21.04 km/h
23. 1994: 39:30 Miguel Indurain 20.96 km/h
24. 1994: 39:30 Luc Leblanc 20.96 km/h

 

[red_flanders]

Re: Re:

[quote=""Jeff"":4s7mccts]What a difference in pace compared to the EPO years (@l'Alpe D'Huez)...wow. You actually see them climb again, like in the 80s.

Indeed, much slower then the EPO years. Here is where Quintana's record is located in the all time list:

21. 1997: 39:20 Francesco Casagrande 21.05 km/h / Nairo Quinata (not confirmed)
22. 1997: 39:21 Bjarne Riis 21.04 km/h
23. 1994: 39:30 Miguel Indurain 20.96 km/h
24. 1994: 39:30 Luc Leblanc 20.96 km/h[/quote]

What? Quintana beat dozens of times from the "EPO era" (that term is a joke). The top 50 is all-dirty and he's right in the middle of it. Not a single time in the top 50 from before 1994.

Here are the top 100. Point me to the first clean ride you see here.

1. 1995: 36:40 Marco Pantani 22.58 km/h
2. 1997: 36:53 Marco Pantani 22.45 km/h
3. 1994: 37:15 Marco Pantani 22.23 km/h
4. 2004: 37:36 Lance Armstrong 22.02 km/h
5. 1997: 37:40 Jan Ullrich 21.98 km/h
6. 2001: 38:03 Lance Armstrong 21.76 km/h
7. 1995: 38:04 Miguel Indurain 21.75 km/h
8. 1995: 38:04 Alex Zulle 21.75 km/h
9. 1995: 38:06 Bjarne Riis 21.73 km/h
10. 1997: 38:20 Richard Virenque 21.60 km/h
11. 1995: 38:34 Laurent Madouas 21.47 km/h
12. 2006: 38:35 Floyd Landis 21.46 km/h
13. 2006: 38:35 Andreas Klöden 21.46 km/h
14. 2004: 38:40 Jan Ullrich 21.41 km/h
15. 1994: 38:55 Richard Virenque 21.28 km/h
16. 2006: 39:00 Carlos Sastre 21.23 km/h
17. 2003: 39:08 Iban Mayo 21.16 km/h
18. 2004: 39:12 Andreas Kloden 21.12 km/h
19. 2004: 39:14 Jose Azevedo 21.10 km/h
20. 2006: 39:14 Levi Leipheimer 21.10 km/h
21. 1997: 39:20 Francesco Casagrande 21.05 km/h
22. 1997: 39:21 Bjarne Riis 21.04 km/h
23. 1994: 39:30 Miguel Indurain 20.96 km/h
24. 1994: 39:30 Luc Leblanc 20.96 km/h
25. 2008: 39:30 Carlos Sastre 20.96 km/h
26. 1994: 39:37 Vladimir Poulnikov 20.90 km/h
27. 2004: 39:40 Giuseppe Guerini 20.87 km/h
28. 2004: 39:41 Santos Gonzalez 20.87 km/h
29. 2004: 39:41 Vladimir Karpets 20.87 km/h
30. 1995: 39:42 Fernando Escartin 20.86 km/h
31. 1995: 39:42 Claudio Chiappucci 20.86 km/h
32. 1995: 39:42 Paolo Lanfranchi 20.86 km/h
33. 2006: 39:46 Denis Menchov 20.82 km/h
34. 2006: 39:46 Michael Rasmussen 20.82 km/h
35. 2006: 39:46 Pietro Caucchioli 20.82 km/h
36. 1995: 39:48 Tony Rominger 20.80 km/h
37. 1995: 39:51 Pavel Tonkov 20.78 km/h
38. 1997: 39:52 Beat Zberg 20.77 km/h
39. 1997: 39:52 Udo Bolts 20.77 km/h
40. 1997: 39:52 Roberto Conti 20.77 km/h
41. 1997: 39:52 Laurent Madouas 20.77 km/h
42. 2004: 39:56 David Moncoutié 20.73 km/h
43. 2004: 39:57 Carlos Sastre 20.73 km/h
44. 2004: 39:58 Ivan Basso 20.72 km/h
45. 2004: 39:58 Stéphane Goubert 20.72 km/h
46. 1994: 40:01 Piotr Ugrumov 20.69 km/h
47. 1994: 40:01 Alex Zülle 20.69 km/h
48. 2001: 40:02 Jan Ullrich 20.68 km/h
49. 1995: 40:07 Laurent Jalabert 20.64 km/h
50. 2004: 40:07 Michael Rogers 20.64 km/h
51. 2001: 40:12 Joseba Beloki 20.60 km/h
52. 2006: 40:14 Oscar Pereiro 20.58 km/h
53. 2006: 40:14 Michael Rogers 20.58 km/h
54. 2006: 40:14 Cadel Evans 20.58 km/h
55. 2006: 40:14 Ivan Parra 20.58 km/h
56. 1997: 40:15 Laurent Jalabert 20.57 km/h
57. 1997: 40:15 Marco Fincato 20.57 km/h
58. 1997: 40:18 Abraham Olano 20.55 km/h
59. 1997: 40:23 Orlando Rodrigues 20.50 km/h
60. 1991: 40:27 Gianni Bugno 20.47 km/h
61. 2004: 40:27 Marcos Serrano 20.47 km/h
62. 1991: 40:28 Miguel Indurain 20.46 km/h
63. 1991: 40:29 Luc Leblanc 20.45 km/h
64. 2006: 40:29 Cyril Dessel 20.45 km/h
65. 2006: 40:29 Haimar Zubeldia 20.45 km/h
66. 1995: 40:31 Richard Virenque 20.44 km/h
67. 1995: 40:31 Ivan Gotti 20.44 km/h
68. 2004: 40:32 Oscar Pereiro 20.43 km/h
69. 2006: 40:32 Mikel Astarloza 20.43 km/h
70. 2001: 40:33 Christophe Moreau 20.42 km/h
71. 1997: 40:39 Manuel Beltran 20.37 km/h
72. 2004: 40:40 José Enrique Gutierrez 20.36 km/h
73. 1994: 40:43 Roberto Conti 20.34 km/h
74. 1994: 40:43 Oscar Pellicioli 20.34 km/h
75. 1994: 40:43 Pascal Lino 20.34 km/h
76. 1994: 40:43 Feranando Escartin 20.34 km/h
77. 1994: 40:43 Armand de las Cuevas 20.34 km/h
78. 2006: 40:45 Fränk Schleck 20.32 km/h
79. 2004: 40:46 Georg Totschnig 20.31 km/h
80. 1995: 40:49 Johan Bruyneel 20.29 km/h
81. 2004: 40:49 Sandy Casar 20.29 km/h
82. 2006: 40:49 Gilberto Simoni 20.29 km/h
83. 2003: 40:53 Alexandre Vinokourov 20.25 km/h
84. 2004: 40:56 Floyd Landis 20.23 km/h
85. 2006: 40:56 Damiano Cunego 20.23 km/h
86. 2001: 40:57 Oscar Sevilla 20.22 km/h
87. 2004: 40:57 Mikel Astarloza 20.22 km/h
88. 2004: 40:57 Juan Miguel Mercado 20.22 km/h
89. 2004: 41:00 Christophe Moreau 20.20 km/h
90. 1991: 41:02 Jean-Francois Bernard 20.18 km/h
91. 2004: 41:03 Gilberto Simoni 20.17 km/h
92. 1997: 41:07 Fernando Escartin 20.14 km/h
93. 2004: 41:08 Francisco Mancebo 20.13 km/h
94. 1991: 41:10 Claudio Chiappucci 20.11 km/h
95. 1999: 41:10 Giuseppe Guerini 20.11 km/h
96. 1991: 41:12 Pedro Delgado 20.10 km/h
97. 2004: 41:13 Axel Merckx 20.09 km/h
98. 2004: 41:13 Sylvain Chavanel 20.09 km/h
99. 2006: 41:13 Christophe Moreau 20.09 km/h
100.2006: 41:13 Tadej Valjavec 20.09 km/h

 

["Jeff"]

Re: Re:

[quote=""Jeff"":bztv8nwb]What a difference in pace compared to the EPO years (@l'Alpe D'Huez)...wow. You actually see them climb again, like in the 80s.

Indeed, much slower then the EPO years. Here is where Quintana's record is located in the all time list:

21. 1997: 39:20 Francesco Casagrande 21.05 km/h / Nairo Quinata (not confirmed)
22. 1997: 39:21 Bjarne Riis 21.04 km/h
23. 1994: 39:30 Miguel Indurain 20.96 km/h
24. 1994: 39:30 Luc Leblanc 20.96 km/h[/quote]
Yeah people are going crazy about this already because its still the 20th time ever but its 15-20 years later.

The difference is made at the beginning of the climb. Tyler Hamilton also said this in his book. The pace in those first km's in 1997-2001-2003-2004 were just not human.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Re: Re:

[quote=""Jeff"":16ig9mf2]What a difference in pace compared to the EPO years (@l'Alpe D'Huez)...wow. You actually see them climb again, like in the 80s.

Indeed, much slower then the EPO years. Here is where Quintana's record is located in the all time list:

21. 1997: 39:20 Francesco Casagrande 21.05 km/h / Nairo Quinata (not confirmed)
22. 1997: 39:21 Bjarne Riis 21.04 km/h
23. 1994: 39:30 Miguel Indurain 20.96 km/h
24. 1994: 39:30 Luc Leblanc 20.96 km/h[/quote]
Nairo put that time in when he was 7 years old? Wow, the guy's a super phenom, never to be doubted when he starts destroying people now

 

["Jeff"]

Re: Re:

[quote=""Jeff"":20f2y9yn]What a difference in pace compared to the EPO years (@l'Alpe D'Huez)...wow. You actually see them climb again, like in the 80s.

Indeed, much slower then the EPO years. Here is where Quintana's record is located in the all time list:

21. 1997: 39:20 Francesco Casagrande 21.05 km/h / Nairo Quinata (not confirmed)
22. 1997: 39:21 Bjarne Riis 21.04 km/h
23. 1994: 39:30 Miguel Indurain 20.96 km/h
24. 1994: 39:30 Luc Leblanc 20.96 km/h

What? Quintana beat dozens of times from the "EPO era" (that term is a joke). The top 50 is all-dirty and he's right in the middle of it. Not a single time in the top 50 from before 1994.

Here are the top 100. Point me to the first clean ride you see here.

1. 1995: 36:40 Marco Pantani 22.58 km/h
2. 1997: 36:53 Marco Pantani 22.45 km/h
3. 1994: 37:15 Marco Pantani 22.23 km/h
4. 2004: 37:36 Lance Armstrong 22.02 km/h
5. 1997: 37:40 Jan Ullrich 21.98 km/h
6. 2001: 38:03 Lance Armstrong 21.76 km/h
7. 1995: 38:04 Miguel Indurain 21.75 km/h
8. 1995: 38:04 Alex Zulle 21.75 km/h
9. 1995: 38:06 Bjarne Riis 21.73 km/h
10. 1997: 38:20 Richard Virenque 21.60 km/h
11. 1995: 38:34 Laurent Madouas 21.47 km/h
12. 2006: 38:35 Floyd Landis 21.46 km/h
13. 2006: 38:35 Andreas Klöden 21.46 km/h
14. 2004: 38:40 Jan Ullrich 21.41 km/h
15. 1994: 38:55 Richard Virenque 21.28 km/h
16. 2006: 39:00 Carlos Sastre 21.23 km/h
17. 2003: 39:08 Iban Mayo 21.16 km/h
18. 2004: 39:12 Andreas Kloden 21.12 km/h
19. 2004: 39:14 Jose Azevedo 21.10 km/h
20. 2006: 39:14 Levi Leipheimer 21.10 km/h
21. 1997: 39:20 Francesco Casagrande 21.05 km/h
22. 1997: 39:21 Bjarne Riis 21.04 km/h
23. 1994: 39:30 Miguel Indurain 20.96 km/h
24. 1994: 39:30 Luc Leblanc 20.96 km/h
25. 2008: 39:30 Carlos Sastre 20.96 km/h
26. 1994: 39:37 Vladimir Poulnikov 20.90 km/h
27. 2004: 39:40 Giuseppe Guerini 20.87 km/h
28. 2004: 39:41 Santos Gonzalez 20.87 km/h
29. 2004: 39:41 Vladimir Karpets 20.87 km/h
30. 1995: 39:42 Fernando Escartin 20.86 km/h
31. 1995: 39:42 Claudio Chiappucci 20.86 km/h
32. 1995: 39:42 Paolo Lanfranchi 20.86 km/h
33. 2006: 39:46 Denis Menchov 20.82 km/h
34. 2006: 39:46 Michael Rasmussen 20.82 km/h
35. 2006: 39:46 Pietro Caucchioli 20.82 km/h
36. 1995: 39:48 Tony Rominger 20.80 km/h
37. 1995: 39:51 Pavel Tonkov 20.78 km/h
38. 1997: 39:52 Beat Zberg 20.77 km/h
39. 1997: 39:52 Udo Bolts 20.77 km/h
40. 1997: 39:52 Roberto Conti 20.77 km/h
41. 1997: 39:52 Laurent Madouas 20.77 km/h
42. 2004: 39:56 David Moncoutié 20.73 km/h
43. 2004: 39:57 Carlos Sastre 20.73 km/h
44. 2004: 39:58 Ivan Basso 20.72 km/h
45. 2004: 39:58 Stéphane Goubert 20.72 km/h
46. 1994: 40:01 Piotr Ugrumov 20.69 km/h
47. 1994: 40:01 Alex Zülle 20.69 km/h
48. 2001: 40:02 Jan Ullrich 20.68 km/h
49. 1995: 40:07 Laurent Jalabert 20.64 km/h
50. 2004: 40:07 Michael Rogers 20.64 km/h
51. 2001: 40:12 Joseba Beloki 20.60 km/h
52. 2006: 40:14 Oscar Pereiro 20.58 km/h
53. 2006: 40:14 Michael Rogers 20.58 km/h
54. 2006: 40:14 Cadel Evans 20.58 km/h
55. 2006: 40:14 Ivan Parra 20.58 km/h
56. 1997: 40:15 Laurent Jalabert 20.57 km/h
57. 1997: 40:15 Marco Fincato 20.57 km/h
58. 1997: 40:18 Abraham Olano 20.55 km/h
59. 1997: 40:23 Orlando Rodrigues 20.50 km/h
60. 1991: 40:27 Gianni Bugno 20.47 km/h
61. 2004: 40:27 Marcos Serrano 20.47 km/h
62. 1991: 40:28 Miguel Indurain 20.46 km/h
63. 1991: 40:29 Luc Leblanc 20.45 km/h
64. 2006: 40:29 Cyril Dessel 20.45 km/h
65. 2006: 40:29 Haimar Zubeldia 20.45 km/h
66. 1995: 40:31 Richard Virenque 20.44 km/h
67. 1995: 40:31 Ivan Gotti 20.44 km/h
68. 2004: 40:32 Oscar Pereiro 20.43 km/h
69. 2006: 40:32 Mikel Astarloza 20.43 km/h
70. 2001: 40:33 Christophe Moreau 20.42 km/h
71. 1997: 40:39 Manuel Beltran 20.37 km/h
72. 2004: 40:40 José Enrique Gutierrez 20.36 km/h
73. 1994: 40:43 Roberto Conti 20.34 km/h
74. 1994: 40:43 Oscar Pellicioli 20.34 km/h
75. 1994: 40:43 Pascal Lino 20.34 km/h
76. 1994: 40:43 Feranando Escartin 20.34 km/h
77. 1994: 40:43 Armand de las Cuevas 20.34 km/h
78. 2006: 40:45 Fränk Schleck 20.32 km/h
79. 2004: 40:46 Georg Totschnig 20.31 km/h
80. 1995: 40:49 Johan Bruyneel 20.29 km/h
81. 2004: 40:49 Sandy Casar 20.29 km/h
82. 2006: 40:49 Gilberto Simoni 20.29 km/h
83. 2003: 40:53 Alexandre Vinokourov 20.25 km/h
84. 2004: 40:56 Floyd Landis 20.23 km/h
85. 2006: 40:56 Damiano Cunego 20.23 km/h
86. 2001: 40:57 Oscar Sevilla 20.22 km/h
87. 2004: 40:57 Mikel Astarloza 20.22 km/h
88. 2004: 40:57 Juan Miguel Mercado 20.22 km/h
89. 2004: 41:00 Christophe Moreau 20.20 km/h
90. 1991: 41:02 Jean-Francois Bernard 20.18 km/h
91. 2004: 41:03 Gilberto Simoni 20.17 km/h
92. 1997: 41:07 Fernando Escartin 20.14 km/h
93. 2004: 41:08 Francisco Mancebo 20.13 km/h
94. 1991: 41:10 Claudio Chiappucci 20.11 km/h
95. 1999: 41:10 Giuseppe Guerini 20.11 km/h
96. 1991: 41:12 Pedro Delgado 20.10 km/h
97. 2004: 41:13 Axel Merckx 20.09 km/h
98. 2004: 41:13 Sylvain Chavanel 20.09 km/h
99. 2006: 41:13 Christophe Moreau 20.09 km/h
100.2006: 41:13 Tadej Valjavec 20.09 km/h[/quote]Dude please. I am not a big fan of Sky either but there's so many other circumstances. If you have watched each of these stages closely, you would know better. Only thing you do, is list some times and names without looking any further.

 

[red_flanders]

Re: Re:

[quote=""Jeff"":2fd2qm4g]What a difference in pace compared to the EPO years (@l'Alpe D'Huez)...wow. You actually see them climb again, like in the 80s.

Indeed, much slower then the EPO years. Here is where Quintana's record is located in the all time list:

21. 1997: 39:20 Francesco Casagrande 21.05 km/h / Nairo Quinata (not confirmed)
22. 1997: 39:21 Bjarne Riis 21.04 km/h
23. 1994: 39:30 Miguel Indurain 20.96 km/h
24. 1994: 39:30 Luc Leblanc 20.96 km/h

Nairo put that time in when he was 7 years old? Wow, the guy's a super phenom, never to be doubted when he starts destroying people now [/quote]

Tough crowd...

 

[red_flanders]

Re: Re:

[quote=""Jeff"":9895euhc]Dude please. I am not a big fan of Sky either but there's so many other circumstances. If you have watched each of these stages closely, you would know better. Only thing you do, is list some times and names without looking any further.[/quote]

I have watched 90% of those races either live or in person, or on tape for a couple. What on earth are you talking about. These are facts.

I cannot find a clean ride in that list. No ride from before EPO hit the peloton is even in the top 100. That's astounding.

 

[argel]

Caught some guy spitting at Froome

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2m0aDfTXUrY

 

[Benotti69]

Re:

Caught some guy spitting at Froome

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2m0aDfTXUrY

Another idiot!!!!

Hope Gendarmes do something.

 

["Jeff"]

Re: Re:

[quote=""Jeff"":2i8i5m76]Dude please. I am not a big fan of Sky either but there's so many other circumstances. If you have watched each of these stages closely, you would know better. Only thing you do, is list some times and names without looking any further.

I have watched 90% of those races either live or in person, or on tape for a couple. What on earth are you talking about. These are facts.

I cannot find a clean ride in that list. No ride from before EPO hit the peloton is even in the top 100. That's astounding.[/quote]This is also a different period. People are going faster as times goes by, always will be, always has been. Of course you wont find many non-dopers (I see some) on that list if you know there was EPO for TWO DECADES.

That's a huge time frame. You cant expect faster times from riders in the 80s with EPO and mother nature earth to consider. If you think it should, like you said, than you are just dumb IMO.

Quintana is pretty far away of the best times ever and a good climber. A supposed doped Froome & Co are even 1m30sec slower. Get real.

 

[Franklin]

Let'not use hyperbole. Today was slower than most of us expected. If this was the only stage in this TdF I would actually be pretty hopeful. But it wasn't so great in the pyrenees,

On a side note: wtf did Lance use in 2001 to be so close to the 60% era... Also, pretty amazing times in 2006.

Oh and before anyone wonders: Quintana rides for a doping team and is himself a charger

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re:

Caught some guy spitting at Froome

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2m0aDfTXUrY

That belongs in the PRR section tbh not in the clinic

 

[zalacain]

Re:

[quote="
That kind of thing you can hear clearly from several yards away.
[/quote]
In all the years I rode a bike I don't think I ever heard the sound of a stone getting caught under a brake block.

 

[Rackham]

Re: Re:

This is also a different period. People are going faster as times goes by, always will be, always has been.

People are only going ''faster' because the doping methods got better, i.e. if you think a combination of equipment & training improvements will give clean riders now the same performance levels as super charged EPO extraterrestrials from merely 20 years ago, I'm afraid you're way off the mark.

Anyone who matches or comes close to ascent times of known mutants is 'pas normal', from my perspective.

 

[mihhint]

So this went pretty much exactly like predicted here with Froome showing he is 'vulnerable' and human by pulling some faces and dropping some time near the end. Now all we'll get is the plebs saying what a great race and if only Quintana attacked earlier/didn't lose time first week/GT was a week longer he could have won part. Well played Sky, fine show.

 

["Jeff"]

Re: Re:

This is also a different period. People are going faster as times goes by, always will be, always has been.

People are only going ''faster' because the doping methods got better, i.e. if you think a combination of equipment & training improvements will give clean riders now the same performance levels as super charged EPO extraterrestrials from merely 20 years ago, I'm afraid you're way off the mark.

There are so many things wrong in the post. Stuff I didnt say and stuff you ignore that I did say, that its not even worth to go into full detail.

However, keep up the good work if you think records are only be broken because of better doping methods. You are in the right section here.

 

[armchairclimber]

Re: Re:

[quote=""Jeff"":540rjuhp]Dude please. I am not a big fan of Sky either but there's so many other circumstances. If you have watched each of these stages closely, you would know better. Only thing you do, is list some times and names without looking any further.

I have watched 90% of those races either live or in person, or on tape for a couple. What on earth are you talking about. These are facts.

I cannot find a clean ride in that list. No ride from before EPO hit the peloton is even in the top 100. That's astounding.[/quote]

None from the BP era? Aside from today?

 

[Rackham]

Re: Re:

[quote=""Jeff""kb2lkrq][quote="
However, keep up the good work if you think records are only be broken because of better doping methods. You are in the right section here.[/quote]

So, in a sport in which most, perhaps even all, of the main protagonists have doped & lied for decades, you want me to believe their records can be beaten by clean riders now? Not a chance, you need a reality check my friend, i.e. the incremental performance improvements you base your theory upon is data which shouldn't be taken seriously anyway, you know why? It's skewed by doping.

Saying "people go faster as time goes by" is based upon times achieved via the widespread use of PED's for decades. Mother nature doesn't factor into any improvements in 20 years, it's an absurd notion.

 

[samerics]

Re:

So this went pretty much exactly like predicted here with Froome showing he is 'vulnerable' and human by pulling some faces and dropping some time near the end. Now all we'll get is the plebs saying what a great race and if only Quintana attacked earlier/didn't lose time first week/GT was a week longer he could have won part. Well played Sky, fine show.

Are you for real? They pretend to look as though they are suffering to fool people? And that he let Quintana go deliberately? On the final climb of the Tour.

 

[whittashau]

I think the clinic has a lot of valid points, but I also think the clinic tends to try to explain every narrative by doping. Which is slightly pathetic. There are other factors. Clearly Froome being super skinnny causes him to struggle in the third week of a GT, and leaves him highly susceptible to illness.

How he gets so *** skinny. There is quite possibly a legitimate clinic answer there

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

Re: Re:

Caught some guy spitting at Froome

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2m0aDfTXUrY

That belongs in the PRR section tbh not in the clinic

To be 'fair; when u spit at a cyclist you are clinicially insane, I say this part of the forum to be renamed to 'the Nuthouse'.

 

[FroomehasneverdopedX]

Re:

I think the clinic has a lot of valid points, but I also think the clinic tends to try to explain every narrative by doping. Which is slightly pathetic. There are other factors. Clearly Froome being super skinnny causes him to struggle in the third week of a GT, and leaves him highly susceptible to illness.

How he gets so **** skinny. There is quite possibly a legitimate clinic answer there

with AICAR or clen