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Re:
Yeah those 7 straight wins by Armstrong were riveting. So were Indruain's 5 straight wins. Pity everyone else in those races didn't dope to make it a better race..............hang on, wait a minute......
Maybe is they all raced clean it would be better, but we will never know, as the culture to dope is so engrained in those running the sport that it appears things will not change in the short term....
But you guys keep coming in here and shooting the messengers.
Those that come here after their heroes have won, really dont think Froome & co were clean, if you did the last place you would be bitching is here. You're welcome.
Berzin said:
Yeah those 7 straight wins by Armstrong were riveting. So were Indruain's 5 straight wins. Pity everyone else in those races didn't dope to make it a better race..............hang on, wait a minute......
Maybe is they all raced clean it would be better, but we will never know, as the culture to dope is so engrained in those running the sport that it appears things will not change in the short term....
But you guys keep coming in here and shooting the messengers.
Those that come here after their heroes have won, really dont think Froome & co were clean, if you did the last place you would be bitching is here. You're welcome.
Re: Re:
Tinkoff and Astana are two teams with questionable "domestiques" and mountain specialist...gheez, the pull that was done the day before by one of Contador's guys was a big reminder of Floyd performance. Forget his name...but never seen a guy set a pace for damn near 30 minutes pulling the best climbers in the World on his wheel up that crazy switchback climb of Stage 19....I was miffed at that. Not Sky/Movistar etc...forget the Tinkoff guys name...blanking out.
lovealiens said:
Tinkoff and Astana are two teams with questionable "domestiques" and mountain specialist...gheez, the pull that was done the day before by one of Contador's guys was a big reminder of Floyd performance. Forget his name...but never seen a guy set a pace for damn near 30 minutes pulling the best climbers in the World on his wheel up that crazy switchback climb of Stage 19....I was miffed at that. Not Sky/Movistar etc...forget the Tinkoff guys name...blanking out.
Sky have dominated three of the last four TDF's, to the extent of basically closing the race down.
The one they didn't was when the leader crashed early.
In this domination, they have dominated obviously dirty teams. i.e. Astana actually has epo busts from last years tour.
Therefore, I'm at The Clinic at Tour De France time because I am a sad soul who's only real connection to cycling is making invalid inferences about doping.
A more insightful truth I have never heard......
The one they didn't was when the leader crashed early.
In this domination, they have dominated obviously dirty teams. i.e. Astana actually has epo busts from last years tour.
Therefore, I'm at The Clinic at Tour De France time because I am a sad soul who's only real connection to cycling is making invalid inferences about doping.
A more insightful truth I have never heard......
Re:
Despite your suspicions, its still guessing and everything is based on assumptions. If you think ''the truth'' is your opinion, than you seriously overrate yourself.
Spot on.The Hegelian said:
Despite your suspicions, its still guessing and everything is based on assumptions. If you think ''the truth'' is your opinion, than you seriously overrate yourself.
Re: Re:
without doping, the race would not be so easy to control by the super teams who can drill it on the front all day. We would not have 30 riders at the base of the final HC ascent on the Queen Stage after 3 previous mtn passes.
it would without doubt, be a more entertaining race.
so the argument, the fans want the speed and the doping. Well, the counter factual is the inverse. It might look good to see vroom or Quintana lighting up the final climb, but it is relative. They are lighting up the climb versus their competitors who are also on the o2 vectors. Now, if they light up the climb, but at 3kmph less speed, but their competitors are all 5kmph slower than them, the fans and the public will still interpret them as lighting up the climb qua lighting up the climb.
imo, the race would be much more exciting with no o2 vector doping. It would be so much more surprising, pure climbers would come back into the race, and even with Quintana, the grimpeur has lost a significant place in the Tour. Even with Rasmussen, and Heras.Benotti69 said:Yeah those 7 straight wins by Armstrong were riveting. So were Indruain's 5 straight wins. Pity everyone else in those races didn't dope to make it a better race..............hang on, wait a minute......
Maybe is they all raced clean it would be better, but we will never know, as the culture to dope is so engrained in those running the sport that it appears things will not change in the short term....
But you guys keep coming in here and shooting the messengers.
Those that come here after their heroes have won, really dont think Froome & co were clean, if you did the last place you would be bitching is here. You're welcome.
without doping, the race would not be so easy to control by the super teams who can drill it on the front all day. We would not have 30 riders at the base of the final HC ascent on the Queen Stage after 3 previous mtn passes.
it would without doubt, be a more entertaining race.
so the argument, the fans want the speed and the doping. Well, the counter factual is the inverse. It might look good to see vroom or Quintana lighting up the final climb, but it is relative. They are lighting up the climb versus their competitors who are also on the o2 vectors. Now, if they light up the climb, but at 3kmph less speed, but their competitors are all 5kmph slower than them, the fans and the public will still interpret them as lighting up the climb qua lighting up the climb.
Berzin I want more than LRP and vroom's word they were spat on plus thrown urine at.
It is plausible, but not believable. Their mission for sympathy failed a while back with their aggressive PR posturing, and other lies.
how many people spat on or punched Armstrong. He was strong enough of character, not to have to resort to such base lies. Armstrong just called out Walsh and Kimmage in the press room.
It is plausible, but not believable. Their mission for sympathy failed a while back with their aggressive PR posturing, and other lies.
how many people spat on or punched Armstrong. He was strong enough of character, not to have to resort to such base lies. Armstrong just called out Walsh and Kimmage in the press room.
Re: Re:
Despite your suspicions, its still guessing and everything is based on assumptions. If you think ''the truth'' is your opinion, than you seriously overrate yourself.[/quote]
Sure, and when someone tests positive, to conclude he doped rests on the assumption that it wasn't a false positive. Great point, we must never forget the fragility of human knowledge.
Spot on."Jeff"":2cykgpdb][quote="The Hegelian said:
Despite your suspicions, its still guessing and everything is based on assumptions. If you think ''the truth'' is your opinion, than you seriously overrate yourself.[/quote]
Sure, and when someone tests positive, to conclude he doped rests on the assumption that it wasn't a false positive. Great point, we must never forget the fragility of human knowledge.
Re: Re:
I haven't followed this thread. What are the theories as to why Froome is so confident that they won't find anything in his samples for 10 yrs? he seemed very confident.
Note: If you're Lance Froome 2.0 fanboy, don't bother with the "Because he's clean" replies.
Benotti69 said:
I haven't followed this thread. What are the theories as to why Froome is so confident that they won't find anything in his samples for 10 yrs? he seemed very confident.
Note: If you're Lance Froome 2.0 fanboy, don't bother with the "Because he's clean" replies.
Re: Re:
Sure, and when someone tests positive, to conclude he doped rests on the assumption that it wasn't a false positive. Great point, we must never forget the fragility of human knowledge.[/quote]No idea what you are trying to say here.
SeriousSam said:
Sure, and when someone tests positive, to conclude he doped rests on the assumption that it wasn't a false positive. Great point, we must never forget the fragility of human knowledge.[/quote]No idea what you are trying to say here.
Re: Re:
The others do have threads, they just don't get as much attention because;
The others have shown GT talent from a young age, pass the eye test for riding a bike, generally don't out TT Tony Martin, and don't ride for the team who turned decidedly average riders into some of the best climbers in the world in a matter of years.
The problem most have with Sky/Froome is they came from nowehere, resemble USPS/Discovery, and have been fairly dominant since 2012. Of course they're going to get more attention...
atak1978 said:
The others do have threads, they just don't get as much attention because;
The others have shown GT talent from a young age, pass the eye test for riding a bike, generally don't out TT Tony Martin, and don't ride for the team who turned decidedly average riders into some of the best climbers in the world in a matter of years.
The problem most have with Sky/Froome is they came from nowehere, resemble USPS/Discovery, and have been fairly dominant since 2012. Of course they're going to get more attention...
Re: Re:
Quintana has effectively repeated what he did in 2013: beating the mutant for 1:30 in the 3rd week of the Tour with an eye-catching performance on Alpe d'Huez. As of yesterday the ratio of posts in this Froome thread was 100:1 compared to the Quintana thread.
There must be more to it than Froome's development? The unambiguously mutant performances that Quintana seems to match don't explain it. What do you think?
Cancelled said:
Quintana has effectively repeated what he did in 2013: beating the mutant for 1:30 in the 3rd week of the Tour with an eye-catching performance on Alpe d'Huez. As of yesterday the ratio of posts in this Froome thread was 100:1 compared to the Quintana thread.
There must be more to it than Froome's development? The unambiguously mutant performances that Quintana seems to match don't explain it. What do you think?
The Ministry for Truth were at it again today on Radio 5 this morning, stating that the reason for the hostile attitude against Froome/Sky was the their large budget and lack of recent French success. Of course doping allegations weren't even mentioned which I would think would have something to do with it. They then interviewed the President of British Cycling who went straight to the default setting of mentioning 'marginal gains' and new dawns (ignoring the fact that Valverde is on the podium).
The BS and selective reporting is just overwhelming at the moment and as I've mentioned in another post, it's a little bit scary how when something comes up in the media on a subject that you know something about, be it your area of expertise at work or your hobby/interests, you can pick massive holes in it.
The BS and selective reporting is just overwhelming at the moment and as I've mentioned in another post, it's a little bit scary how when something comes up in the media on a subject that you know something about, be it your area of expertise at work or your hobby/interests, you can pick massive holes in it.
Re: Re:
because they never retest to bring down the big dogs.
the 99 samples were for research purposes.
when Prof Don Catlin was retesting the 84 samples (again, years later for research), and they started glowing, they stopped testing them, cos Catlin did not want all the positives
compete_clean said:
because they never retest to bring down the big dogs.
the 99 samples were for research purposes.
when Prof Don Catlin was retesting the 84 samples (again, years later for research), and they started glowing, they stopped testing them, cos Catlin did not want all the positives
Re: Re:
I'm guessing the fact that Quintana looks like he was built to ride a bike up steep hills, Froome not so much. A guy 6'1", skinny as a rake, who TT's with the best TTers we have seen and transformed himself, at the age of 26/27, into a climber who climbs basically as well as a guy 20cm shorter and likely a good 10kg+ less.
It's clearly got a lot to do with the team as well, people really don't like Sky for whatever reason. It might not be fair that he gets so much more attention, but there are certainly reasons for it.
For the record, I don't believe any of them are clean, I would just rather watch races without Sky/Froome doing what they have done since 2012 personally.
Ventoux Boar said:
I'm guessing the fact that Quintana looks like he was built to ride a bike up steep hills, Froome not so much. A guy 6'1", skinny as a rake, who TT's with the best TTers we have seen and transformed himself, at the age of 26/27, into a climber who climbs basically as well as a guy 20cm shorter and likely a good 10kg+ less.
It's clearly got a lot to do with the team as well, people really don't like Sky for whatever reason. It might not be fair that he gets so much more attention, but there are certainly reasons for it.
For the record, I don't believe any of them are clean, I would just rather watch races without Sky/Froome doing what they have done since 2012 personally.
Re:
Assuming you are serious about the bold
Ketone bodies are a fuel that use a different metabolic pathway than sugar. Commonly seen when extremely low carb dieting (you can smell them on the breath of people doing extreme Atkins).
Long theorised as a fuel for sport, getting them absorbed sufficiently without caused GI distress has been the main issue.
It is hypothesised (but not confirmed) that a group has cracked this issue and sells British Cycling and Sky drinks which cost a lot, but provide this fuel in a form that can be absorbed.
This could be a contributing factor to the extreme weight loss seen by certain Sky riders.
cocteau_ireland said:
Assuming you are serious about the bold
Ketone bodies are a fuel that use a different metabolic pathway than sugar. Commonly seen when extremely low carb dieting (you can smell them on the breath of people doing extreme Atkins).
Long theorised as a fuel for sport, getting them absorbed sufficiently without caused GI distress has been the main issue.
It is hypothesised (but not confirmed) that a group has cracked this issue and sells British Cycling and Sky drinks which cost a lot, but provide this fuel in a form that can be absorbed.
This could be a contributing factor to the extreme weight loss seen by certain Sky riders.
Re:
There's been footage all over the place showing spitting, gestures etc. Do a Google search. I'm not a massive Froome fan but it's not in dispute surely that he's put up with torrid abuse in recent weeks? Apart from him bringing it up once it's mainly been the press highlighting these incidents with him playing it down.
blackcat said:
There's been footage all over the place showing spitting, gestures etc. Do a Google search. I'm not a massive Froome fan but it's not in dispute surely that he's put up with torrid abuse in recent weeks? Apart from him bringing it up once it's mainly been the press highlighting these incidents with him playing it down.
Re: Re:
its some new peptide like lipotropin, with GW1516 and Aicar
its not the reason Froome turned up at 66kg for Vuelta in 2011, and Wiggins at Garmin light as a grimpeur.Catwhoorg said:
its some new peptide like lipotropin, with GW1516 and Aicar
Re:
go back to the 70s and 80s before o2 vector doping, and seeing riders attacking each other.
the thing is, it is wrong.Gung Ho Gun said:
go back to the 70s and 80s before o2 vector doping, and seeing riders attacking each other.
Re: Re:
Now this is what makes me laugh. We can reply to you providing we don't actually suggest that, whilst he might be doping, he might actually be clean. Why? Because none of us have got the bloody facts! Christ it's like banging your head against a brick wall....
compete_clean said:
Now this is what makes me laugh. We can reply to you providing we don't actually suggest that, whilst he might be doping, he might actually be clean. Why? Because none of us have got the bloody facts! Christ it's like banging your head against a brick wall....
Re: Re:
I'm quite amazed that people are questioning this. They must have short memories and forgotten 2013 when gangs of spectators were screaming at Sky team staff on the road. There was at least one physical attack. This was during the doping crucible caused by the Armstrong debacle.
For what it's worth the accusations aren't even handed. Nibali got a comparatively easy ride last year, despite coming from a stinky team, subsequently almost kicked out of top level cycling. Similarly proven dope-cheats Contador and Valverde avoid the flack.
Sky don't help themselves with their smart-ass smug approach, but its bull to suggest that the invective towards Sky isn't skewed and I think it's fair to say this is reflected on this forum too.
As it happens, I think it is highly unlikely that any of the top 5 contenders and their wingmen are riding clean, and I'd say that most of the accusations levelled at Sky can be levelled atbthese teams too.
On that basis, given that by the end of a day a cheat will have successfully created a bunch of other cheats I'm going to say well done Froome. A well-deserved win.
atak1978 said:
I'm quite amazed that people are questioning this. They must have short memories and forgotten 2013 when gangs of spectators were screaming at Sky team staff on the road. There was at least one physical attack. This was during the doping crucible caused by the Armstrong debacle.
For what it's worth the accusations aren't even handed. Nibali got a comparatively easy ride last year, despite coming from a stinky team, subsequently almost kicked out of top level cycling. Similarly proven dope-cheats Contador and Valverde avoid the flack.
Sky don't help themselves with their smart-ass smug approach, but its bull to suggest that the invective towards Sky isn't skewed and I think it's fair to say this is reflected on this forum too.
As it happens, I think it is highly unlikely that any of the top 5 contenders and their wingmen are riding clean, and I'd say that most of the accusations levelled at Sky can be levelled atbthese teams too.
On that basis, given that by the end of a day a cheat will have successfully created a bunch of other cheats I'm going to say well done Froome. A well-deserved win.
Re: Re:
its not one team, or one rider. I would be confident that all in the Tour are on something. It may not be all, but I am comfortable being resigned to this.
I mocked Armstrong, I mocked Floyd's defense and his floyd fairness fund and Judge Hue and Arnie Baker and Dave Brower of Trust But Verify. I am an equal opportunity bigot/mocker. i revel in the mockery.
it is, the boy who cried wolf. which lies to believe, which truths are lies, it is a rabbit hole, and quite absurd.
I am more in mode of defending Astana and Katusha, because I think they dont have the political protection of the western europe teams, and cannot dope with impunity like the others do. They dope, the same as everyone else, just not with the impunity.
wendybnt said:
its not one team, or one rider. I would be confident that all in the Tour are on something. It may not be all, but I am comfortable being resigned to this.
I mocked Armstrong, I mocked Floyd's defense and his floyd fairness fund and Judge Hue and Arnie Baker and Dave Brower of Trust But Verify. I am an equal opportunity bigot/mocker. i revel in the mockery.
it is, the boy who cried wolf. which lies to believe, which truths are lies, it is a rabbit hole, and quite absurd.
I am more in mode of defending Astana and Katusha, because I think they dont have the political protection of the western europe teams, and cannot dope with impunity like the others do. They dope, the same as everyone else, just not with the impunity.
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