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Teams & Riders Froome Talk Only

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Re: Re:

adamfo said:
Texeng said:
Andynonomous said:
Every time someone has success in a drug riddled sport (like tennis or football, or athletics, or cycling), their fanboys argue that their guy is different.

We have heard all of the same "arguments" for Armstrong and Contador being clean (before they were officially caught), as we are now hearing for Froome being clean. In tennis we get the same BS arguments for Djokovic and Murray. You just can't have success at this level, beating lesser-performing doped riders, unless the talent is an extreme-outlier, or he is doping himself. It is far more likely that he is doped, than he is an extreme outlier. Froome just beat a known doper (and a pretty good rider as well) in Contador. The likelihood Froome was clean at his two TDF victories is less than 1%, yet the fanboys still argue the point.

Why do people argue with deluded fanboys ?
Because its fun in a perverse way - just the same as the clean fanboys argue with the fanboys of everyone is doping regardless of proof. If there was solid proof, then the argument would disappear wouldn't it?

The burden of proof lies with the person making the allegation not the clean fanbois. In a civil court in England this is set at the lower level of 'balance of probabilities'. In a court of law the higher 'beyond reasonable doubt' which is not something relevant to the interweb.
The claim that "The likelihood Froome was clean at his two TDF victories is less than 1%" would be torn to shreds in a civil court as an appeal to probability, an inductive argument.

Eh no…because on the balance of probabilities he is doping......

1. He’s a pro cyclist…a branch of the sport known for its culture of doping
2. He’s won a TDF (x2) the winners of which have a long a glorious history of doping
3. He had a mid-20s transformation – described by Cram as smelling like rotten fish…as well as being obvious to anyone who engaged brain
4. His mid-20s transformation coincided with SKYs employment of a well-known and successful ‘preparatore’
5. His mid-20s transformation coincided with extreme weight loss AND increased power (almost chicken like – see point 4)
6. He is beating GT riders who have not had mid 20s transformation i.e. they were always good and who (based on points 1 and 2 above are also probably doping)
7. He lies about his background – bilharzia and his medical records
8. He/SKY won’t release existing data about his physical capabilities pre mid transformation – rather they go to the expense and palaver of these current ‘tests’ which will prove nothing
9. He kills rabbits (the red herring)
10. He/SKY has a relationship with Zorzoli..Lienders go-to-guy to discuss TUEs and other red flags
11. He is on a team where two of its riders have had blood issues..as well as the being riven (like any other pro-cycling team – see point 1 – with ex-dopers who know the benefits of being ‘prepared’)
12. He is on a team which has an incestuous and symbiotic relationship with the head of the sport’s governing body

All of that is even before we look at

13. He is out-performing doped performances of the past…and at levels Armstrong would call ‘not-normal’

Now…take any one on its own and you might have a point…there would be a low probability…however…and if you’re a betting man and like accumulators…add them all together and…well, as Ullrich said…”If you can’t…..etc”
 
Mar 13, 2009
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double respect.

you think the rabbits and python tale of his and Walsh is bull$hit, because it is. so double respect


we here at the Clinic 12 dont like being lied to and taken for chumps. JV got his comeuppance and surely vroom will too
 
Mar 13, 2009
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Re:

bobbins said:
The Hitch said:
Another blatant lie from you. Brailsford claims he and Shane Sutton discovered Froome in 2006, and Walsh says they and several members of Sky team remarked after the 2009 Giro del Capo that this was going to be a future star.

Spotted at the Melbourne Commonwealth Games by Sutton and Doug Daily. But I'm sure Dave B will amend history to show he was there too
but he had a **** chrono, and the only rider to show anything from Kenya was in the rr kermesse loop around the Botanic Gardens in South Yarra Melbourne! It was David Kenjah or whatever his name is, who when they wrote the book ghosted by David Walsh they did all this orientalist lens on Kenjah and made him out to be some kind of witch doctor who could do extraordinary things on a bike for vroom as long as the bike had perfectly round wheels.
 
Mar 13, 2009
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Re:

Dr. Juice said:
Nothing to see here. He started doping at some point in 2011. There are no other explanations that make sense. Only blood doping can give you that kind of jump ( well, not always to this extent but Dawg was a good responder).

But the other top guns also do it. Froome wanted to be successful and didn't have the talent to be a good GC rider clean. He could have had an honest clean career. His talent is decent, not bad.

he was always doping, John Robertson's Barloworld teams were not clean teams with zero programs. They competed with the rules of the peloton. which is, no rules.

He was not doping when he was pack fodder mediocrity in Gran Fondos for amateurs in South Africa.

Why did he not lap the field in the domestic pro races of Inatech Challenge Tour, Cape Argus Challenge, and Giro del Capo? Why could not he have won the triumvirate?
 
Mar 13, 2009
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Re:

filipo said:
Libertine Seguros said:
Cobo's psychological problems play into that a lot. …. From his junior records I think we can probably surmise Cobo is at least a moderately talented cyclist, and therefore think there was more to differentiate 2010 Cobo from 2011 Cobo than "clean Bisonte/dirty Bisonte".

Been meaning to say this for a while, but Libertine, you are easily the most race- and sport-astute poster on here. Always a pleasure to read your insights.

i second this.

lets just add a sprinkle of blackcat drollery on top, we would have the perfect fantasy poster
 
Jan 4, 2013
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Re:

blackcat said:
Texeng the media are gatekeepers, and the largest media company in the world sponsor the team vroom rides for.

I bet Lance and the handlers at Capital Sports and Entertainment now kick themselves for not thinking about this.

Sky aren't the biggest media company.

The largest British group is WPP

If you exclude internet companies like Google

1)Comcast
2)Disney
3)21st century fox
4)Time Warner
5) Time Warner Cable
6)Directtv
7)WPP
8)CBS
9)Viacom
10)Sky (3rd if you add News Corp, Fox and Sky together)
 
May 26, 2010
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Re: Re:

adamfo said:
blackcat said:
Texeng the media are gatekeepers, and the largest media company in the world sponsor the team vroom rides for.

I bet Lance and the handlers at Capital Sports and Entertainment now kick themselves for not thinking about this.

Sky aren't the biggest media company.

The largest British group is WPP

1)Comcast
2)Disney
3)21st century fox
4)Time Warner
5) Time Warner Cable
6)Directtv
7)WPP
8)CBS
9)Viacom
10)Sky

tsk tsk.

Number 3 and number 10 are both owned by one Rupert Murdoch.

Team Sky have both names on their jersey and shorts. Check your wardrobe ;)

Obfuscation does not wash well in the clinic.
 
Jan 4, 2013
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Re: Re:

Benotti69 said:
adamfo said:
blackcat said:
Texeng the media are gatekeepers, and the largest media company in the world sponsor the team vroom rides for.

I bet Lance and the handlers at Capital Sports and Entertainment now kick themselves for not thinking about this.

Sky aren't the biggest media company.

The largest British group is WPP

1)Comcast
2)Disney
3)21st century fox
4)Time Warner
5) Time Warner Cable
6)Directtv
7)WPP
8)CBS
9)Viacom
10)Sky

tsk tsk.

Number 3 and number 10 are both owned by one Rupert Murdoch.

Team Sky have both names on their jersey and shorts. Check your wardrobe ;)

Obfuscation does not wash well in the clinic.

I know that. I was editing the post as you replied.
 
Re: Re:

adamfo said:
blackcat said:
Texeng the media are gatekeepers, and the largest media company in the world sponsor the team vroom rides for.

I bet Lance and the handlers at Capital Sports and Entertainment now kick themselves for not thinking about this.

Sky aren't the biggest media company.

The largest British group is WPP

1)Comcast
2)Disney
3)21st century fox
4)Time Warner
5) Time Warner Cable
6)Directtv
7)WPP
8)CBS
9)Viacom
10)Sky

you know Murdoch owns 21st Century Fox???

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/team-sky-picks-up-new-multi-year-sponsor/

it's even on our hapless hero's ar*e... ;)
 
Media ownership is very fuzzy and that is by the design of the major groups, and whilst rivals there is a whole lot of co-operation as well. (Hulu being a great example)

Comcast owns NBC universal and its various subsidiaries (Including a good chunk of Hulu)
Disney owns ABC, plus things like Lucasfilm and now Marvel (and ~30% of Hulu) and most of ESPN
21st Century fox holds most of the non-print media from the old Fox group. (including ~30% of Hulu)
News Corp was spun off and holds most of the print media rights.

I haven't even begun to think about the convoluted radio ownership these days.
 
Apr 20, 2012
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socio.jpg


Can we rank the ''I don't actually know what is involved in taking PED's'' in the same category as

ketones.jpg


???
 
Apr 3, 2011
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Re:

the sceptic said:
Froome going with the village idiot defence now.

looks like it became the mainstream SkyExcuse - all that thrashtalk about not really testing riders or knowing their values (after years of BS PR about "the most scientific team"), most famous one being Vroom ignorant about his VO2max (after being at Dr. Bermon's Monaco lab - not a random doctor but self-proclaimed VO2max specialist), now even going to "independent" GlaxoTest... but dontknows are dangerous, let's wait for the anecdotal evidence along the lines of a classic joke: Where were you last night? - I don't know who killed him!
 
Jul 21, 2012
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yes, sky went from knowing everything about the sport to becoming clueless about everything.

I wonder how long it will take them to doctor Froomes test values to make them look human.
 
Oct 6, 2009
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During the TTT today, Carlton Kirby assured us all in no uncertain terms that Dawg and Sky are most definitely cleans. And something about how CK thinks it's not right that Dawg has to put up with people doubting and questioning him. Carlton has read his bot handbook, and should be showing up to post on this forum any day now :p
 
Sep 29, 2012
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Re: Re:

doolols said:
The Hitch said:
Does someone have recordings of Kirby saying these things. Could be fun posting them a few years down the line if Froome falls. Seeing as how kirby would no doubt try to like ligget try to weasel his way out of responsibility for what he said.

https://youtu.be/Hsh9-JX2Rak?t=9m30s

You're welcome :)

You are a gentleman, thank you.

That's a deep hole he kept digging as Katusha appeared.

Curious that the logic of "there are dodgy teams racing and Sky are pwning them" escapes his attention.
 
Oct 16, 2010
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Re:

the sceptic said:
yes, sky went from knowing everything about the sport to becoming clueless about everything.

I wonder how long it will take them to doctor Froomes test values to make them look human.
Wiggins' thorough historical knowledge of cycling is literally presented as a marginal gain in some pieces (part of the 'attention to detail'-package). Yet he was clueless, shocked and surprised about Lance's doping. :rolleyes:
 
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having mostly done criteriums as preparation Froome come out very good today.

i think it's time to buckle your seat belts cause you are in for a rough ride guys, and a lot of tears from some sensible users :D

if there's no rain and constant 30+ degrees his chances for the double are huge. and the thread will rocket to 50,000 posts by 2016

p.s. there's no way he is clean. or he is second coming of merckx and also not clean lol