Teams & Riders Froome Talk Only

[rick james]

Re:

............test results coming this year........why? delay figures will be made up anyways

Mark L

thats the spirit, scream loads for the test results and then say you won't believe them anyway...Love it

 

[Farcanal]

Check out Dawg!

What the F?!! He is goijg down the Lance route of getting very big, then dropping weight.

You forget that is in Japan. You don't have any frame of reference for a decent comparison. Even I look like Arnie out there!

 

[veganrob]

Re: Re:

............test results coming this year........why? delay figures will be made up anyways

Mark L

thats the spirit, scream loads for the test results and then say you won't believe them anyway...Love it

It's been made abundantly clear several times that these figures will not mean a whole lot without having pre Vuelta 2011 test results to compare to.

 

[rick james]

and did he do this test pre Vuelta 2011? so looking for results that are not there are doing nothing but muddying the water.

 

[bikenrrd]

That picture of Froome is just weird lens distortion from a cheap smartphone camera. Just look how weird his left foot looks!

 

[Metabolol]

Re: Re:

At 2% BF you would be dead. A competitive bodybuilder who is completely shredded might dip a shade under 4% BF for a day or two. But you will feel like **** and it's not a performance sport. There is no way that any cyclist competes at 3%BF. No freaking way.

Yes I am sure you know better that Il Dottore.

In this case he is wrong. It's not the first time I have seen it claimed that an athlete is at 2-3% but it's simply not possible. If he really thinks that then I have to question what else he is wrong about.

 

[veganrob]

Re:

and did he do this test pre Vuelta 2011? so looking for results that are not there are doing nothing but muddying the water.

Of course he did. All pro teams will test their riders. To not do so would be incredibly irresponsble.

 

[the sceptic]

Re:

and did he do this test pre Vuelta 2011? so looking for results that are not there are doing nothing but muddying the water.

I think you might be the one muddying the waters.

 

[.Froomestrong.]

Re:

At 2% BF you would be dead. A competitive bodybuilder who is completely shredded might dip a shade under 4% BF for a day or two. But you will feel like **** and it's not a performance sport. There is no way that any cyclist competes at 3%BF. No freaking way.

Truth.

I would actually be surprised if a Olympia-level IFBB pro even gets down to 2%. Ive seen guys with shredded glutes at 5%.
There is a real misunderstanding of BF % levels, unfortunately. Skin fold tests can be 2-4% off from Dex scan #'s. If Dr. Ferrari says Froome was 2%, he is mistaken.

That said, Id say the Froome was as lean as anyone in the IFBB this year- which makes his performances that much more amazing. As you point out, the day a BB'er steps onstage, is the worst performing day of his/her life.
Yet somehow, Froome manages to win the worlds hardest endurance race while looking like this.

Seems legit.

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re: Re:

At 2% BF you would be dead. A competitive bodybuilder who is completely shredded might dip a shade under 4% BF for a day or two. But you will feel like **** and it's not a performance sport. There is no way that any cyclist competes at 3%BF. No freaking way.

Truth.

I would actually be surprised if a Olympia-level IFBB pro even gets down to 2%. Ive seen guys with shredded glutes at 5%.
There is a real misunderstanding of BF % levels, unfortunately. Skin fold tests can be 2-4% off from Dex scan #'s. If Dr. Ferrari says Froome was 2%, he is mistaken.

That said, Id say the Froome was as lean as anyone in the IFBB this year- which makes his performances that much more amazing. As you point out, the day a BB'er steps onstage, is the worst performing day of his/her life.
Yet somehow, Froome manages to win the worlds hardest endurance race while looking like this.

Seems legit.

It is actually not the truth. 2% is the bare minimum you need to survive. So you would not be dead at 2%.
If skin fold tests are off, then that is the case for all cyclists. Froome was still at the lowest end of the spectrum at the Tour, while he looks normal right now. Who cares what the skin fold test shows, the eyeball test can tell you his body fat percentage is way higher now.
Dr Ferrari said (2014 TDF)
2-3% Froome
4-5% Contador
5-6% Nibali
Nibali was confirmed 6% by Astana's team doctor.
Michael Valgren is at 8%
Nibali in Tirreno 2014 was at 9%. Dauphine 2014 was 7%.
So decide for yourself what Froome is at at Tour weight, and right now.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

I think the issue is Froome was doing more than surviving. He was operating at the peak of human power output / performance for 3 weeks.

I do not believe this is something you could do at 2% body fat.

 

[thehog]

Re:

I think the issue is Froome was doing more than surviving. He was operating at the peak of human power output / performance for 3 weeks.

I do not believe this is something you could do at 2% body fat.

I think all the HGH Froome has taken has given him big foot

 

[yespatterns]

Re: Re:

At 2% BF you would be dead. A competitive bodybuilder who is completely shredded might dip a shade under 4% BF for a day or two. But you will feel like **** and it's not a performance sport. There is no way that any cyclist competes at 3%BF. No freaking way.

Truth.

I would actually be surprised if a Olympia-level IFBB pro even gets down to 2%. Ive seen guys with shredded glutes at 5%.
There is a real misunderstanding of BF % levels, unfortunately. Skin fold tests can be 2-4% off from Dex scan #'s. If Dr. Ferrari says Froome was 2%, he is mistaken.

That said, Id say the Froome was as lean as anyone in the IFBB this year- which makes his performances that much more amazing. As you point out, the day a BB'er steps onstage, is the worst performing day of his/her life.
Yet somehow, Froome manages to win the worlds hardest endurance race while looking like this.

Seems legit.

It is actually not the truth. 2% is the bare minimum you need to survive. So you would not be dead at 2%.
If skin fold tests are off, then that is the case for all cyclists. Froome was still at the lowest end of the spectrum at the Tour, while he looks normal right now. Who cares what the skin fold test shows, the eyeball test can tell you his body fat percentage is way higher now.
Dr Ferrari said (2014 TDF)
2-3% Froome
4-5% Contador
5-6% Nibali
Nibali was confirmed 6% by Astana's team doctor.
Michael Valgren is at 8%
Nibali in Tirreno 2014 was at 9%. Dauphine 2014 was 7%.
So decide for yourself what Froome is at at Tour weight, and right now.

Anything below 4% is nigh on impossible to hold just for fitness models prepping for a shoot. 2% is simply inaccurate.

 

[86TDFWinner]

Does anyone here honestly believe ANYTHING he releases will be legit? He should've released something months ago.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

Does anyone here honestly believe ANYTHING he releases will be legit? He should've released something months ago.

It should certainly be entertaining. We can read it while we wait for Henao's altitude study or Tommy D's B sample results...

 

[Benotti69]

Froome is the most obvious doper since Riis. How anyone can believe this guy can be clean is crazy! Just goes to show the levels of greed in Sky. Brailsford should've known most would not believe Froome was a natural after his Vuelta'11 transformation. That was the time to sell him! But with UCI, 1st McQuaid and now Cookson on board the good ship teamsky, it doesn't matter.

If Froome had half a brain, he would take his 2 TdF wins, bank them, then go for a Giro win and a Vuelta win and get out before he gets spiked!

 

[Metabolol]

Re: Re:

At 2% BF you would be dead. A competitive bodybuilder who is completely shredded might dip a shade under 4% BF for a day or two. But you will feel like **** and it's not a performance sport. There is no way that any cyclist competes at 3%BF. No freaking way.

Truth.

I would actually be surprised if a Olympia-level IFBB pro even gets down to 2%. Ive seen guys with shredded glutes at 5%.
There is a real misunderstanding of BF % levels, unfortunately. Skin fold tests can be 2-4% off from Dex scan #'s. If Dr. Ferrari says Froome was 2%, he is mistaken.

That said, Id say the Froome was as lean as anyone in the IFBB this year- which makes his performances that much more amazing. As you point out, the day a BB'er steps onstage, is the worst performing day of his/her life.
Yet somehow, Froome manages to win the worlds hardest endurance race while looking like this.

Seems legit.

It is actually not the truth. 2% is the bare minimum you need to survive. So you would not be dead at 2%.
If skin fold tests are off, then that is the case for all cyclists. Froome was still at the lowest end of the spectrum at the Tour, while he looks normal right now. Who cares what the skin fold test shows, the eyeball test can tell you his body fat percentage is way higher now.
Dr Ferrari said (2014 TDF)
2-3% Froome
4-5% Contador
5-6% Nibali
Nibali was confirmed 6% by Astana's team doctor.
Michael Valgren is at 8%
Nibali in Tirreno 2014 was at 9%. Dauphine 2014 was 7%.
So decide for yourself what Froome is at at Tour weight, and right now.

Those numbers are a joke. Add three percantage % points to all those numbers above and you would get closer to reality. As I stated Froome would be dead at that bf level and Contador has never been that lean.

Froome has probably been at 5% at his lowest and that is as low as anyone is getting in performance sports and it's not a level he maintains for a long time period.

I have been involved in bodybuilding for a long time so I know what it takes and how it feels like to dip under 5% for a very short while - you are in NO state to ride a bike let alone climb mountains at record speeds. And bodybuilding is as stated not a performance sport. Even most competitive bodybuilders never actually go under that bf level, only the most shredded do and you feel like death (some have actually died - although often as a result of the use of diuretics).

 

[observer]

What are the tests supposed to prove? That a guy who just won the Tdf has the capability to win the TDF? Without a lifetime of data there is no reference point.

Having said that, I am still interested

 

[Metabolol]

Re:

Froome is the most obvious doper since Riis. How anyone can believe this guy can be clean is crazy! Just goes to show the levels of greed in Sky. Brailsford should've known most would not believe Froome was a natural after his Vuelta'11 transformation. That was the time to sell him! But with UCI, 1st McQuaid and now Cookson on board the good ship teamsky, it doesn't matter.

If Froome had half a brain, he would take his 2 TdF wins, bank them, then go for a Giro win and a Vuelta win and get out before he gets spiked!

I'm more surprised that his body can still handle the process. I think he probably has a couple of big performances left in him but after that he will be gone the same way he came - like the wind. Considering what he is doing to his body I doubt he will be a 'fader'.

 

[The Hitch]

Re:

What are the tests supposed to prove?

They are supposed to prove that Sky are transparent.

They already gave themselves credit for being the most transparent team in the sport, this is supposed to be proof of this. Which is why its quite funny that they still haven't actually released it and that they are devoting months to falsify the data.

 

[StryderHells]

Re: Re:

What are the tests supposed to prove?

They are supposed to prove that Sky are transparent.

They already gave themselves credit for being the most transparent team in the sport, this is supposed to be proof of this. Which is why its quite funny that they still haven't actually released it and that they are devoting months to falsify the data.

And the precedent of shonky data from Sky would be the whole Henao saga so why anybody would expect "transparency" when it comes to Froome (or any rider) surely has head in the sand syndrome

 

[bobbins]

Re:

Froome is the most obvious doper since Riis. How anyone can believe this guy can be clean is crazy! Just goes to show the levels of greed in Sky. Brailsford should've known most would not believe Froome was a natural after his Vuelta'11 transformation. That was the time to sell him! But with UCI, 1st McQuaid and now Cookson on board the good ship teamsky, it doesn't matter.

If Froome had half a brain, he would take his 2 TdF wins, bank them, then go for a Giro win and a Vuelta win and get out before he gets spiked!

This is the most astute observation on Froome and his transformation. How anyone can even remotely think he is clean is beyond me. The Sky operation seems to make normal people think like lemmings. Even intelligent world class athletes from other sports have told me that Sky are clean based on Dave B and his pseudo-science management talk.

 

[DirtyWorks]

Does anyone here honestly believe ANYTHING he releases will be legit? He should've released something months ago.

It should certainly be entertaining. We can read it while we wait for Henao's altitude study or Tommy D's B sample results...

Let's also take a moment to reflect on how thin many riders are now versus any other time in the sport, yet somehow producing grand tour podiums.

I think new viewers might not quite understand how unlikely it is.

 

[hrotha]

Does anyone here honestly believe ANYTHING he releases will be legit? He should've released something months ago.

Depends. If it lines up with all the other data we have, then it's probably legit.

The problem, of course, is that it won't prove much. It'll tell us he has these insanely high physiological values and that he can produce this many W/kg over this much time, but it so happens we already know all that. What the tests won't tell us is whether those physiological values and those watt figures are enhanced. Only a comparison with the pre-September 2011 data could shed light on that.

This wait before the release of the data (if it comes) might just be because they're double-checking to make sure nothing is truly damning by itself, but I doubt they'd risk actually tweaking the numbers instead of simply releasing different or incomplete data.

 

[mrhender]

Sky and froome is imo attempting to cover all bases.

Releasing the data, maintaining it is unheard of and only because it is him, and that such things take time to be analyzed and correctly performed studies is much in line with the marginal gains "thorough turning of every stone" mantra.

I think all of this is also much in line with the SKY PR strategy.

The more mixed signals and confusion the better.

If they run in every direction all the time it is harder holding them accountable to one single one.


The latest example of this is found below.

"In a way, getting those accusations is the ultimate compliment, but at the same time I'm certainly not taking it as a compliment."

https://in.news.yahoo.com/cycling-doping-suspicions-compliment-froome-040627639.html