Teams & Riders Froome Talk Only

[Libertine Seguros]

Thanks never knew


He got it in December 2010, what GT did he finish?
And seriously don't make up that stuff about a disease if you haven't got the faintest first clue about it..

Did he? In that case why were his results still dwindling from 2008-10? It seems that December 2010 was the time he was first diagnosed with it, whether that's when he got it is something else entirely. I suspect it's more likely to have been some time earlier than that. If he really did only catch it in December 2010 it certainly puts into a new light the difference between 2010 and late 2011 Froome, as 2010 Froome suddenly becomes the ride of a mostly healthy rider, which makes it more reliable to use as a baseline. In fact, suggesting that Froome only caught bilharzia in December 2010 would in fact be more of a case in favour of accusing him of doping, because it makes the transformation more, rather than less, ridiculous.

Usually with a med called praziquantel and corticosteroids in combo. (As you'll be able to verify by employing the latest fad called Google)....

Jeebus!

Cortico TUE? Hmmm, that is interesting.

I was dreamin' when I wrote this, so sue me if I go too fast...

coughing is a symptom of many diseases. maybe he's allergic to bull****?

He's spent the last three and a half years on a team with Dave Brailsford and Bradley "my story changes every three weeks" Wiggins. Both of whom, whether you like them or not, have delivered stories riddled with so many inconsistencies that it absolutely 100% guarantees that quite a lot of what they say is bull****.

what you mean by awful skills?

You're a sports coach. You have two prospective talents run the 100m. They both do identical times, but one has much better technique. Take drugs out of the equation - who's the stronger man? Probably the one with worse technique. You can coach him to use better technique and he'll beat the other guy.

Froome right now has some pretty awkward technique. He TTs like a tarantula on a bike, and he's all arms and legs at odd angles. But he's strong enough that that doesn't matter, he can still beat those who are more efficient than him. I know you have at least some rudimentary knowledge of wintersports - think of a skier like Tora Berger, all jumping and snow splattered all over the place with high intensity and fast turnover, versus the much more elegant, refined technique of Darya Domracheva. Dasha uses far less energy than Tora, and goes faster. Froome is like if Tora just never ran out of energy and just kept charging past the Domrachevas of the world as if they were standing still.

Or, for a better comparison in the context of the Clinic - remember Johann Mühlegg tripping over his own feet before getting back up and skiing away from everybody by a minute in Salt Lake? That.

Having read the wikipedia article:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bilharzia

I get the idea that it would take 4-8 weeks for the parasites to reach maturity and then reproduce. Hence it would take time before any symptoms occur.

Anyway he could have gotten it in South Africa too. So I don't see how him being good in that TTT is indicative of anything.

As for it's diagnosis, I have no idea how early after infection it can be detected. Might be long before symptoms are obvious.

As for why one would require a test. Uci demands health checks IIRC. Or maybe he had blood in his urine, or he felt more tired than he used to feel or.. or... etc.

More likely Kenya. Though South Africa is still more of a risk than most other places (besides Eritrea) with cycling heritage. Still, I'd wager that the South African incidence of the disease varies wildly from region to region.

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

The Bilharzia is a dead end. Unless you're privy to all info in Froome's medical journal, which we're not, it'll be just speculation. BUT, you can be sure of one thing: his medical condition, treatment etc. is meticulously recorded and open for close scrutiny by relevant authorities.

You mean, like the UCI?

Nah.

Cool story but it doesnt explain his explosion on the road. Also the ever changing story/inconsistent story doesnt look good.

Tony Romingers' story was consistent, at least, still it was a lie.

 

[hektoren]

Having read the wikipedia article:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bilharzia

I get the idea that it would take 4-8 weeks for the parasites to reach maturity and then reproduce. Hence it would take time before any symptoms occur.

Anyway he could have gotten it in South Africa too. So I don't see how him being good in that TTT is indicative of anything.

As for it's diagnosis, I have no idea how early after infection it can be detected. Might be long before symptoms are obvious.

As for why one would require a test. Uci demands health checks IIRC. Or maybe he had blood in his urine, or he felt more tired than he used to feel or.. or... etc.

Having read a Wikipedia article and reaching conclusions like "it would take time before any symptoms occur" is stretching your knowledge-base a bit far, I'd say.

Point is, without formal training and knowledge of relevant data that pertains to Mr. Froome, forming an opinion and drawing conclusions is a futile exercise.

Pro cyclists go to their job with a lot of balls (Juon Pelota as an exemption of course), dedication and determination. I don't really see the rationale for true cycling fans to resort to easy speculation, posturing and flippant jokes about hard realities like a pro-riders' medical situation.

 

[hektoren]

You mean, like the UCI?

Nah.

Cool story but it doesnt explain his explosion on the road. Also the ever changing story/inconsistent story doesnt look good.

Tony Romingers' story was consistent, at least, still it was a lie.

Not the UCI, more like WADA.

Which explosion are you referring to? At the 2006 Worlds time trial, his very first outing on the world scene, he crashed with an official, yet managed to finish 36th, for chrissake. What does that tell you about his engine from get-go???

As for ever changing stories I can vividly remember the whispering-game of my childhood years. Make sure you know the original story. Just saying.

 

[hektoren]

He TTs like a tarantula on a bike, and he's all arms and legs at odd angles.

Bull!
His TT-posture and ride (little sideways-motion, stable torso) is extremely efficient and correct. You can't really blame him for resembling an elk, skinny, long-limbed with elbows, knees and scapulas sticking out at all angles. He's 186cm, 67-68 kgs!

 

[pmcg76]

Bull!
His TT-posture and ride (little sideways-motion, stable torso) is extremely efficient and correct. You can't really blame him for resembling an elk, skinny, long-limbed with elbows, knees and scapulas sticking out at all angles. He's 186cm, 67-68 kgs!

So Hektoren, if the bilharzia was only contracted in late 2010 and you think his positioning is good. What do you think has changed for Froome in comparison to 09/10. I will happily leave out 2008 as it was his first year as a pro and his mother passed away that year so clearly that would have a negative impact on anyone.

I would still find it incredible that a guy with this level of talent would fail to produce results in 09/10.

 

[Pentacycle]

Bull!
His TT-posture and ride (little sideways-motion, stable torso) is extremely efficient and correct. You can't really blame him for resembling an elk, skinny, long-limbed with elbows, knees and scapulas sticking out at all angles. He's 186cm, 67-68 kgs!

From that video of the Crit.Int. he appears to have gotten a very efficient pedalling technique as well, he uses all leg and core muscles to perfection.

Same with Bauke Mollema; despite his horrible style it's to some extent efficient.

I'd not recommend any rider to try imitate them, though.

 

[thehog]

Bull!
His TT-posture and ride (little sideways-motion, stable torso) is extremely efficient and correct. You can't really blame him for resembling an elk, skinny, long-limbed with elbows, knees and scapulas sticking out at all angles. He's 186cm, 67-68 kgs!

I’ve been reliably informed by Sky sources that due to his awkward riding style and general imbalance all over his body made him a perfect candidate for the Sky team.

Brailsford hired him specifically to run in his cleats to push mid pack riders like Henderson.

Braislford discovered that when Froome was running in cycling shoes that his awkward style would even out. Everyone else would fall over whereas the Dawg could stand straight and push a rider off faster than anyone else in the peloton.

Modern marvel. Marginal gains at work.

 

[hektoren]

So Hektoren, if the bilharzia was only contracted in late 2010 and you think his positioning is good. What do you think has changed for Froome in comparison to 09/10. I will happily leave out 2008 as it was his first year as a pro and his mother passed away that year so clearly that would have a negative impact on anyone.

I would still find it incredible that a guy with this level of talent would fail to produce results in 09/10.

Well, being a British cycling team, I'd be more that surprised if TeamSky isn't privy to the last research from eg. the University of Nottingham, finding genetic markers for super-responders to HIT-training, their research into L-Carnitine coupled with glucose etc. I don't know. And, quite obviously, you don't know either....

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

Which explosion are you referring to? At the 2006 Worlds time trial, his very first outing on the world scene, he crashed with an official, yet managed to finish 36th, for chrissake. What does that tell you about his engine from get-go???

A year later, age 22, he didnt crash and came in 41rst, behind the 19 year old Tejay van Garderen. What does that say? Tanel Kangert came in seventh there, TT and mountainking Francis de Greef on ten.

Just saying.

He did come in second at the B-worlds, after TT god Ma from the great cycling nation of China.

Also just saying.

Look, your boy has of course talent, otherwise he wouldnt be a pro, but to come and tell a 36th place on a junior TT champs is sign of future greatness is kinda silly in my book. Or do you think CHEUNG King Lok will be the next great thing? Or Louis Meintjes?

 

[hektoren]

I’ve been reliably informed by Sky sources that due to his awkward riding style and general imbalance all over his body made him a perfect candidate for the Sky team.

Brailsford hired him specifically to run in his cleats to push mid pack riders like Henderson.

Braislford discovered that when Froome was running in cycling shoes that his awkward style would even out. Everyone else would fall over whereas the Dawg could stand straight and push a rider off faster than anyone else in the peloton.

Modern marvel. Marginal gains at work.

Reliably informed my a..

This coming from a guy who spells Brailsford like you do?

OTOH, I've noticed that a lot of posters truly believe that the lack of contortionist facial grimaces on Froome's face going uphill is all the evidence they need to state that he's juiced.
Well, it's not very energy efficient cycling, is it?
I bet Chris Anker Sorensen could climb 10% better and faster if he didn't insist that his face should look like he's excreting a particularly large brick while he's climbing. All energy expended facially doesn't add 1 nanoNewton on the pedals. Marginal gains, marginal gains.....

 

[JimmyFingers]

He could end up like Merckx in 1973. The spectators sick and tired with and then a solid punch to the ribs and then that TDF are gone.

Lets hope so eh

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Well, being a British cycling team, I'd be more that surprised if TeamSky isn't privy to the last research from eg. the University of Nottingham, finding genetic markers for super-responders to HIT-training, their research into L-Carnitine coupled with glucose etc. I don't know. And, quite obviously, you don't know either....

Of course, other countries don't have research facilities or clinics. You'd think some of these could be well located for cycling too. Somewhere just far enough away from the Tour's big mountains to be a bit low-key, but close enough to do a day trip. Probably best not to be in Italy or Switzerland where you're likely to be spotted. Somewhere in southwest Germany would be perfect.

 

[hektoren]

A year later, age 22, he didnt crash and came in 41rst, behind the 19 year old Tejay van Garderen. What does that say? Tanel Kangert came in seventh there, TT and mountainking Francis de Greef on ten.

Just saying.

He did come in second at the B-worlds, after TT god Ma from the great cycling nation of China.

Also just saying.

Look, your boy has of course talent, otherwise he wouldnt be a pro, but to come and tell a 36th place on a junior TT champs is sign of future greatness is kinda silly in my book. Or do you think CHEUNG King Lok will be the next great thing? Or Louis Meintjes?

He's not my boy. He's Team Sky's. There're no certainties in cycling making anybody really, really sure that one single result today is a guarantee of future results. Too many parameters, too much chance involved, and the last few percentages separating the gofer and the one he goes for makes this game extremely hard to predict. I can name a few dozen riders off-hand who were just as promising as the stars, but who ultimately failed in making the cut. I'm sure you can too.

 

[JimmyFingers]

Reliably informed my a..

This coming from a guy who spells Brailsford like you do?

OTOH, I've noticed that a lot of posters truly believe that the lack of contortionist facial grimaces on Froome's face going uphill is all the evidence they need to state that he's juiced.
Well, it's not very energy efficient cycling, is it?
I bet Chris Anker Sorensen could climb 10% better and faster if he didn't insist that his face should look like he's excreting a particularly large brick while he's climbing. All energy expended facially doesn't add 1 nanoNewton on the pedals. Marginal gains, marginal gains.....

I hear constant facial contortions are actually moar aero, your constantly moving cheekbones, lips and ears means no lip or edge is formed for the air to move around and then eddy and swirl behind. Voekler's gurning is the facial equivalent of the teardrop helmet

True story

 

[hektoren]

Of course, other countries don't have research facilities or clinics. You'd think some of these could be well located for cycling too. Somewhere just far enough away from the Tour's big mountains to be a bit low-key, but close enough to do a day trip. Probably best not to be in Italy or Switzerland where you're likely to be spotted. Somewhere in southwest Germany would be perfect.

If you've got something to say, I very much prefer that you'd state it clearly. Mumbling in corners like that is just silly.

 

[hektoren]

I hear constant facial contortions are actually moar aero, your constantly moving cheekbones, lips and ears means no lip or edge is formed for the air to move around and then eddy and swirl behind. Voekler's gurning is the facial equivalent of the teardrop helmet

True story

More aero at the speed we're talking about, going uphill? Now, that would surely be a marginal, marginal gain....

 

[Froome19]

Mate, come on tell us who are talking?

I think The hog has been talking to himself again

 

[Froome19]

Usually with a med called praziquantel and corticosteroids in combo. (As you'll be able to verify by employing the latest fad called Google)....

Jeebus!

Froome used the Prazinquantel med according to Cound

 

[thehog]

Reliably informed my a..

This coming from a guy who spells Brailsford like you do?
QUOTE]

You didn't pick up on how I spelt Dawg?

 

[JimmyFingers]

More aero at the speed we're talking about, going uphill? Now, that would surely be a marginal, marginal gain....

Moar aero. Uphill it's more marginal, but them's the rules

 

[thehog]

Reliably informed my a..

This coming from a guy who spells Brailsford like you do?

.....

You didn't pick up on how I spelt Dawg?

 

[hektoren]

You didn't pick up on how I spelt Dawg?

Some guys are beyond rescue.....

 

[hektoren]

Froome used the Prazinquantel med according to Cound

Would be the first choice of most GP's. Nothing extraordinary about it. One shot is often enough.

 

[Froome19]

...and where did you read this? Do you have the link?

A Procycling interview of his from last year

Did he? In that case why were his results still dwindling from 2008-10? It seems that December 2010 was the time he was first diagnosed with it, whether that's when he got it is something else entirely. I suspect it's more likely to have been some time earlier than that. If he really did only catch it in December 2010 it certainly puts into a new light the difference between 2010 and late 2011 Froome, as 2010 Froome suddenly becomes the ride of a mostly healthy rider, which makes it more reliable to use as a baseline. In fact, suggesting that Froome only caught bilharzia in December 2010 would in fact be more of a case in favour of accusing him of doping, because it makes the transformation more, rather than less, ridiculous.

Indeed I agree with what you write and that is why both myself and JV have suggested the reasoning behind Froome's rise could not be solely the removal of the Bilharzia. Rather it was his learning how to ride, I just ride of his travails in the 08 Tour from an interview afterwards from Corti who said that Froome was feeling great on the Le Alpe, yet was offered 10 gels which was standard only took one and then bonked.... an example of what I mean and I could give you plenty more.

As I have provided in the past, Julich simply said he could not translate his figures in training to the real thing - because he could not ride properly. So he improved that asset of his riding throughout the 2010-11 off season and then the season with Julich as Julich himself said and then we should have seen the jump he was capable off, unfortunately it was hindered by the Bilharzia so we only saw it when the Bilharzia was removed in 2011 Vuelta.

More likely Kenya. Though South Africa is still more of a risk than most other places (besides Eritrea) with cycling heritage. Still, I'd wager that the South African incidence of the disease varies wildly from region to region.

Froome believes he got it when he went to Kenya for a friend's wedding.


Good to see this thread with some new content.