Teams & Riders Froome Talk Only

[Heckler]

Has anyone seen the zero tolerance policy full stop?

This is my question exactly.

For Froome especially, because he, theoretically has the deepest pockets of an individual rider while Katusha seems to have the largest travel budget ;-).

Forget about blood bags and dosing and Aicar, what is the true, money's no object, state of the art science?

 

[thehog]

Of course:

The truth is out there!

 

[ebandit]

talk

Has anyone seen the zero tolerance policy full stop?

interesting? we have often spoken about the ztp but have not read detail

of course it exists leinders rogers yates etc have felt it's effect

.............is it necesary for observers to read detail? surely content is a

matter of contractual detail between team and employees

we can glean a little detail from interviews ...no place on team sky for those

with a doping past ........clean participation in races

there is no mention of ztp on the team sky website which is strange compared

with how often it is referred to here

team sky don't make such a big deal about performing clean

Mark L

 

[Von Mises]

The error margin on this particular excercise (101 sample, 100 tosses) is less than 0.00 => As someone said, if this happens on the street, what is your bet?

Thank you providing me another example. Let me be clear: I am not talking here about mathematics or physics of coin toss, I am pointing how people create (and mostly unitentionally biases).

a) Man is flipping a coin;
b) Street hustler is flipping a coin;
c) Honest scientist in his laboratory is flipping a coin.

Do you see difference?

If we are talking mathematics, there is no difference. But if we are talking about biases and how people perceive what is happening, then there is difference. At first you made your answer conditional, now you endorse another bias creating mechanism. If I am not mistaken in terminology, psychologists are calling it "priming". You are add one small bit of new information (in this case street hustler) and it changes how we judge situation (including probability).

Again, you should know that sample size counts. In this case we have a large sample and extremely heavy bias. And that's just GT winner and dope. Then we look at dirty doctors, lieing managers, prior palmares. Every spread we have is heavily against Froome.

Actually we do not have large sample size. We have opinions, interpretations, we have some facts (but even these facts are biased to interpretation and sometimes interpretations are presented as facts), but mostly we have huge caps of relevant information our i.

I am not saying that Froome is clean, if someone ask me to make a bet, I´d decline (I do not have enough information). If I am forced to make a bet, then I guess, I´d bet against Froome (but even in latter case I am not sure is my decision influenced by "real facts" against Froome, or influenced by dislike of Froome). And anyway, I am not here estimating Froome, I a talking in more general terms: I dont think we can make confident estimates in these situations.

 

[Franklin]

I am not saying that Froome is clean, if someone ask me to make a bet, I´d decline (I do not have enough information). If I am forced to make a bet, then I guess, I´d bet against Froome (but even in latter case I am not sure is my decision influenced by "real facts" against Froome, or influenced by dislike of Froome).

Well, isn't that funny... someone who rants and rails against suspicion actually fully agrees that it's most likely he's a doper.

 

[horsinabout]

Froome's head......discuss.

A very prominent Neanderthal brow ridge.....discuss

A phasing out of main rival team mate....discuss.



Early onset alopecia, could it be genetic?....discuss.



Froome's timeline to the top.....where is the evidence he has shown outstanding natural talent from the word go.....discuss.

 

[Netserk]

I don't really see the difference between the two pictures.

 

[ebandit]

fresh

froomey looks kinda.............fresh faced

move along nothing to see....................evidence would be needed from

accurate measurement / comparison over elapsed time not photographs

which can distort depending upon angle lens used

Mark L

 

[JimmyFingers]

Discussion of photos and physical appearances are pointless, unless you're looking for some trolling fun.

 

[horsinabout]

I don't really see the difference between the two pictures.

It is not meant to be a before and after comparison - why don't you folks read what I write not what you think I write. So go back, take a deep breath and read it again.

For e.g. Is Froome a natural talent? or are the sorts of transformations that we see in our sports men and women a highly manufactured and unattainable level that exists in a tangible sense, but it's objectivity is attainable only through the use of PED's, and can only be attaining in this way, at the level of performance we are now seeing? That was my point of discussion.

 

[Heckler]

froomey looks kinda.............fresh faced

move along nothing to see....................evidence would be needed from

accurate measurement / comparison over elapsed time not photographs

which can distort depending upon angle lens used

Mark L

Wouldn't that be, maybe, funny: In the future, all athletes will be required to report for annual mug shots...

 

[thehog]

It is not meant to be a before and after comparison - why don't you folks read what I write not what you think I write. So go back, take a deep breath and read it again.

For e.g. Is Froome a natural talent? or are the sorts of transformations that we see in our sports men and women a highly manufactured and unattainable level that exists in a tangible sense, but it's objectivity is attainable only through the use of PED's, and can only be attaining in this way, at the level of performance we are now seeing? That was my point of discussion.

What worries me most is not the size of his head or its changing shape but what’s inside his head.

We already know what happens in the end with these stories.

 

[JimmyFingers]

It is not meant to be a before and after comparison - why don't you folks read what I write not what you think I write. So go back, take a deep breath and read it again.

For e.g. Is Froome a natural talent? or are the sorts of transformations that we see in our sports men and women a highly manufactured and unattainable level that exists in a tangible sense, but it's objectivity is attainable only through the use of PED's, and can only be attaining in this way, at the level of performance we are now seeing? That was my point of discussion.

You get that from his hairline?

 

[hiero2]

Well - the shots selected do show a high brow line in the hair, and MIGHT show thinning of the hair on the crown.

The obvious suggestion is steroid enhancement. I will agree the pictorial evidence seems very lightweight - by itself it could mean anything or nothing.

And as for getting rid of rivals - that sounds like normal (for top-level athletics) ego and competive urges.

For me, the "suspicious" flag went up last year with the apparent ultra-low body fat visible in the photos. They may not be doping, per se, but they seem to have some methods in place to keep weight down. Could be doping, could be not doping.

 

[FignonLeGrand]

Froome's head......discuss.

A very prominent Neanderthal brow ridge.....discuss

A phasing out of main rival team mate....discuss.



Early onset alopecia, could it be genetic?....discuss.



Froome's timeline to the top.....where is the evidence he has shown outstanding natural talent from the word go.....discuss.

oh come on dont deny whats clearly there. In one picture he is wearing a t-shirt in the other its a jersey and its red. Also in one he has a body, not in the other. He grew a body between the 2 pictures that must involve drugs. No?

 

[the sceptic]

David Walsh ‏@DavidWalshST

Morning after US Open the night before: still thrilled by how well Rose played down the stretch. Off to interview Chris Froome this week.

Looking forward to see how Walsh will avoid asking all the questions that cant be answered.

 

[thehog]

Looking forward to see how Walsh will avoid asking all the questions that cant be answered.

“So Chris, first question, your head. It’s getting very big these days. What’s the reason behind it? HGH?

 

[horsinabout]

“So Chris, first question, your head. It’s getting very big these days. What’s the reason behind it? HGH?

Other questions, when did BC take the stabilisers off your rear wheel? Who did they get running along side you until you found your balance? Do you really need to do hours of Pilates to become a tour winner?

 

[horsinabout]

oh come on dont deny whats clearly there. In one picture he is wearing a t-shirt in the other its a jersey and its red. Also in one he has a body, not in the other. He grew a body between the 2 pictures that must involve drugs. No?

Tangible outcomes??????

Objective measures????

The top photo with Wiggins in. Great use of "depth of view" by the photographer, phasing out Wiggins with a displeased look on his face, with froome a rye smile....great photography! Captures the mood and the moment. I thought it was worth putting that picture on just for that alone. So enjoy!

 

[Non Grimpeur]

Effectively Mr Walsh and Froome's wages are being paid by the same organisation - News Corp. There is no way that Walsh is going to do anything but spin the Sky mantra. He will not reveal anything. This is why Paul Kimmage no longer writes for the Sunday Times.

Perhaps Walsh should ask Froome why he was so disloyal to Wiggins in last year's Tour - you never attack your leader when he is in yellow.

How would he feel if Porte did the same thing to him this year?(although this is unlikely)

As for the doping issue. I have my suspicions and hope that time will reveal all.

 

[horsinabout]

Well - the shots selected do show a high brow line in the hair, and MIGHT show thinning of the hair on the crown.

The obvious suggestion is steroid enhancement. I will agree the pictorial evidence seems very lightweight - by itself it could mean anything or nothing.

And as for getting rid of rivals - that sounds like normal (for top-level athletics) ego and competive urges.

For me, the "suspicious" flag went up last year with the apparent ultra-low body fat visible in the photos. They may not be doping, per se, but they seem to have some methods in place to keep weight down. Could be doping, could be not doping.

Lets toss a coin - heads he's doping.....tails he's not... flip, there we go, see where it lands.

Normal to get rid of rivals.....on the same team?????

 

[Pentacycle]

Other questions, when did BC take the stabilisers off your rear wheel? Who did they get running along side you until you found your balance? Do you really need to do hours of Pilates to become a tour winner?

That's in fact a valid question. Every pro rider does it to an extent, depending on natural core strength of course, or in some cases to reduce the risk of injuries.

 

[horsinabout]

That's in fact a valid question. Every pro rider does it to an extent, depending on natural core strength of course, or in some cases to reduce the risk of injuries.

Not decrying cyclist doing Pilates - not at all. I do them two three times a day. great. But hours of???? Take a deep breath and read what I wrote.

 

[Pentacycle]

Not decrying cyclist doing Pilates - not at all. I do them two three times a day. great. But hours of???? Take a deep breath and read what I wrote.

Hours of Pilates a day is a lot, I agree. I kinda misunderstood about the time basis though.

 

[Taxus4a]

Well, although I think there were necessary another treath for this, to could find the article easier (and there are already two similar thread of Froome, maybe that way one is not necessary) I understand the decission of the administrators and put it here:

An unpolished diamond: the story of Chris Froome

This article was written in spanish, but some people ask me in this forum to write it in english. My english is not very good, so I will have some mistakes and it have been a big work for me to use similar expresions I used in spanish, but I hope it would be legible and the meaning without the doubts that the google translator offers. Anyway sorry about the possible mistakes.

The article has been necessary to understand a little bit more his story, and his big step made in the Vuelta.

I dont Know if the clinic is the place, but it is true that is focused in the credibility of his story, and the lies a lot of people say day by day in places at the clinic about his career.

It is long, so it take time, ay least if one read all the links, but I think is necessary for anybody before to talk about the credibility of Froome