Teams & Riders Froome Talk Only

[Bobito]

this is the number of a day, not a global performance.
With the wind conditions, the difference is great, it could be 2 minutes less in Lance conditions

1. 2004: 55:51 Iban Mayo 23.10 km/h
2. 2004: 56:26 Tyler Hamilton 22.86 km/h
3. 1999: 56:50 Jonathan Vaughters 22.70 km/h
4. 2004: 56:54 Oscar Sevilla 22.67 km/h
5. 1999: 57:33 Alexander Vinokourov 22.42 km/h
6. 1994: 57:34 Marco Pantani 22.41 km/h
7. 1999: 57:34 Wladimir Belli 22.41 km/h
8. 2004: 57:39 Juan Miguel Mercado 22.38 km/h
9. 1999: 57:42 Joseba Beloki 22.36 km/h
10. 2004: 57:49 Lance Armstrong 22.31 km/h
11. 1999: 57:52 Lance Armstrong 22.29 km/h
12. 2004: 58:14 Inigo Landaluze 22.15 km/h
13. 1999: 58:15 Kevin Livingston 22.15 km/h
14. 1999: 58:31 David Moncoutie 22.05 km/h
15. 2004: 58:35 José Enrique Gutierrez 22.02 km/h
16. 2009: 58:45 Andy Schleck 21.96 km/h
17. 2009: 58:45 Alberto Contador 21.96 km/h
18. 2009: 58:48 Lance Armstrong 21.94 km/h
19. 2009: 58:50 Fränk Schleck 21.93 km/h
20. 1999: 58:51 Unai Osa 21.92 km/h
21. 2009: 58:53 Roman Kreuziger 21.91 km/h
22. 2002: 59:00 Lance Armstrong 21.86 km/h
23. 2013: 59:00 Chris Froome 21.86 km/h
24. 1994: 59:02 Richard Virenque 21.85 km/h
25. 1994: 59:02 Armand De Las Cuevas 21.85 km/h
26. 1994: 59:02 Luc Leblanc 21.85 km/h
27. 1994: 59:02 Miguel Indurain 21.85 km/h
28. 1994: 59:02 Roberto Conti 21.85 km/h
29. 2009: 59:03 Franco Pellizotti 21.85 km/h
30. 2000: 59:05 Marco Pantani 21.83 km/h
31. 2000: 59:05 Lance Armstrong 21.83 km/h
32. 2009: 59:05 Vincenzo Nibali 21.83 km/h
33. 1994: 59:07 Pascal Lino 21.82 km/h
34. 1999: 59:08 Tyler Hamilton 21.82 km/h
35. 1999: 59:08 Roberto Laiseka 21.82 km/h
36. 2009: 59:10 Bradley Wiggins 21.80 km/h
37. 2004: 59:12 Levi Leipheimer 21.79 km/h
38. 2004: 59:24 Michael Rasmussen 21.72 km/h
39. 2004: 59:27 Stéphane Goubert 21.70 km/h
40. 2013: 59:29 Nairo Quintana 21.69 km/h

But, what are you talk about, man?? even with better wind condition, Froome was worse, I though froome could beat Mayo record when I see the inussual tailwind sometimes...and I was really surprised when I see the time, becouse he had Porte and Quintana sometime later...I remenber Lance talking with pantani and stoped

Froome is sandwiched between Amstrong and Pantani/Hamilton/Rasmussen.

Approximately 35 of the 40 (counting Armstrong twice) on that list have even tested positive.

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

Disgusting attitude that goes against the very essence of sport.

Competing is a privilege not a right. Having a go is what is important. Your attitude is a straight out reflection of everything that is wrong with GB ATM.

Your golden gongs won't last and they will forever be tarnished.

Dont worry about it, Boardman also found his 10 plus seconds because of his magic Lotus bike.

 

[Normandy]

Disgusting attitude that goes against the very essence of sport.

Competing is a privilege not a right. Having a go is what is important. Your attitude is a straight out reflection of everything that is wrong with GB ATM.

Your golden gongs won't last and they will forever be tarnished.

Totally agree with you Galic Ho. Sadly even if the medals are tarnished, the individuals will have been able to profit from them, while the true winners will have lost out big time

 

[HL2037]

And no... my problem isnt't if he wins or if there will be someone else to put him down.. My problem is that Froome and his team, and other guys like them from other teams, think that we ( the audiences ) are naive and idiots, and that they can insult our intelligence indefinitely.

I feel exactly the same, well put!

 

[Danielovich]

the differences in the story

Within the "secret press conference" Froome is asked whether they do trainging for high-cadence in the Mountains (or in general I assume), and the answer is no. 3 minutes in - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ay48ZWkoeHU

When Kerrison was interviewed by The Guardian he states Froomes win on Mont Ventoux was based on that training, specifically stating "The guys in the team who train that way look at [Froome's attack] and think, 'He's rehearsed that way of riding, three or four times a week for the last two years'.". - http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jul/15/team-sky-chris-froome-tour-de-france

Whether the understading of the question Froome was asked was not fully understood by Froome is up to debate, but its a two-sided story since Kerrison states in the interview that this is a rehearsed training method.

 

[taiwan]

need to move this back onto the bilharzia treatment a few pages back. that was getting interesting

It's in the GAS6 thread for some reason

 

[del1962]

To put this into context. Lemond had a VO2 Max of 92.5. Indurain had a VO2max of 88.

The top 1500 meter runner of all time (3 minutes 26 seconds would convert to approximately a Vo2 Max of approximately 83.6.

Lemond's VO2 Max would correspond to a time of 3 minutes 8 seconds and 50 some odd miliseconds.

If you took the top marathon runner's time of 2 hours 3 minutes and 2 seconds and calibrated it to Lemond's time you would have 1 hour 52 minutes and 45 seconds.

Lemond's VO2 Max levels are so far outside the standard deviations of normal human VO2 Max that he likely had at least 7% advantage over his competitors in terms oxygen uptake/conversion and possibly as great as 10%.

His VO2 Max is substantially better than the greatest long distance runners that have ever lived.

This is why people and the poster above are questioning Froome because natural VO2 max levels that defy convention don't magically appear all of the sudden. They are there from the beginning and they give a rider such a massive advantage.

I don't no what your opinions here are, but your conversion times are meaningless, David Bedford had a high VO2 max, but couldn't run a 4 minute mile, (I am not sure he could even run a sub 60 second 400m).

(Note he broke the then 10K wr)

 

[taiwan]

I'm under no illusions as to what "Team GB" might be up to, but having watched the shamples that was Great Britain in the 1996 Olympics and the routine whippings our guys got off the Eastern bloc in the 70s and 80s, I'd much sooner have a lot of potentially dodgy golden gongs than a bunch of clean losers.

I make no apologies for this view. (Though I do have real issues with competitors being doped without their knowledge. Not sure how common this is.)

As long ad you're not simoultaneously trying to take that position and the one of your fav riders being legit.

 

[horsinabout]

They will stick to a script and try and keep it within the realms of believability (for the average sports fan and naïve/non-questioning types).

However, as far as I am concerned. The game is up.

1) Froome is very, very dirty - one of the most doped riders in the history of cycling.

2) Sky and BC are possibly the source of the dirt but at the very least are dirty by association.

I am actually ashamed to be British because this weird in-built thing of "oh we're british, so we must be clean" is quite clearly bull~hit, does not stack up when given the evidence and is quite frankly arrogant and ignorant.

I have a strange feeling that something big is going to happen before the end of this TDF.
I think someone in the race may make a stand. I don't think he will get popped but in my gut, I think there is a chance that the massively dominant Chris Froome may not win the 2013 TDF.

I won't quote all of this post, but it was a good en.

You say you are a journalist, what do you think of Walsh's sickening lack of independence re Sky, and that of (nearly all) other media?

 

[timmers]

Ha I love it!
So Froome according to The Hitch and others is doping! Well I say prove it and in Hitch's case as he appears to live in London report Froome to British Cycling , his licence issuer, and UKAD.
Maybe the riders you guys seem to love, Contador, Valverde and Sanchez, are of the juice so their real levels of ability are being displayed.
As I have said before if Sky has doping practices in place someone will sell it to the tabloids in the UK. There has been nothing so maybe we are seeing a talent who wins by miles like in the old days!
This is brilliant and its great the negative "every one are dopers" crowd are getting ****ed off!

 

[horsinabout]

Within the "secret press conference" Froome is asked whether they do trainging for high-cadence in the Mountains (or in general I assume), and the answer is no. 3 minutes in - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ay48ZWkoeHU

When Kerrison was interviewed by The Guardian he states Froomes win on Mont Ventoux was based on that training, specifically stating "The guys in the team who train that way look at [Froome's attack] and think, 'He's rehearsed that way of riding, three or four times a week for the last two years'.". - http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jul/15/team-sky-chris-froome-tour-de-france

Whether the understading of the question Froome was asked was not fully understood by Froome is up to debate, but its a two-sided story since Kerrison states in the interview that this is a rehearsed training method.

Well spotted contradiction.

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

Ha I love it!
So Froome according to The Hitch and others is doping! Well I say prove it and in Hitch's case as he appears to live in London report Froome to British Cycling , his licence issuer, and UKAD.

How many times have you stated this by now? 500 times? Every time it gets funnier.

On the press conference:
The Froomster didnt read Kerrison's mail about it is now cool to release their training techniques;
* high cadence spinning
* motor pacing up mountains
* 40/20 ies

Really, never done before in the history of cycling.

 

[timmers]

How many times have you stated this by now? 500 times? Every time it gets funnier.

Well Dutchie how else can we clean the dirty sport up?

It a better thing to do than sit on the internet and whinge!

 

[User Guide]

Ha I love it!
So Froome according to The Hitch and others is doping! Well I say prove it and in Hitch's case as he appears to live in London report Froome to British Cycling , his licence issuer, and UKAD.
Maybe the riders you guys seem to love, Contador, Valverde and Sanchez, are of the juice so their real levels of ability are being displayed.
As I have said before if Sky has doping practices in place someone will sell it to the tabloids in the UK. There has been nothing so maybe we are seeing a talent who wins by miles like in the old days!
This is brilliant and its great the negative "every one are dopers" crowd are getting ****ed off!

Again I dont get the either or mentality in the clinic.
Froome being as dirty as a $5 ****** does not mean all of Sky and BC are filthy tor the other way round and they are all super squeaky clean.
We live in an age of Twitter and nearly every human being on the planet having a HD video camera in their pocket.The days of full blown team wide (or britain wide according too the clinic) are long gone in cycling.
The most likely scenario imho is a small group of riders or an individual being involved.Again that does not preclude the notion that Brailsford is at least aware somethings wrong or at worst enabling.

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

Well Dutchie how else can we clean the dirty sport up?

It a better thing to do than sit on the internet and whinge!

Good thing you Brit with that great history in cycling can teach us a lesson or two.

 

[MartinGT]

Can we stop the Brit bashing?

I am British but I certainly dont think Sky or BC are clean. I have zero time for Johan Brailsford and I know several people who have similar views. I also know a couple of people who have had dealings with him and do not like him at all.

 

[Galic Ho]

Totally agree with you Galic Ho. Sadly even if the medals are tarnished, the individuals will have been able to profit from them, while the true winners will have lost out big time

And the public's perception again takes a battering. The truth matters little to people with such an outlook Wallace repeated.

That is really what this is about. Ego. Unparalleled human greed and selfishness that demands that the person profit. Medals. Endorsements. Fame. Money. Applause. All of it based on deception and the honest guy, the true winner who should be celebrated for their character is just a side note.

Dont worry about it, Boardman also found his 10 plus seconds because of his magic Lotus bike.

Oh I've commented on Boardman before. First worlds Hour Record time I believed, but the second one after Obree beat him? Nope. Not clean. Another guy who had the UCI's approval. Had way too much slack cut in his favour over Obree. Way too much.

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

Can we stop the Brit bashing?

I am British but I certainly dont think Sky or BC are clean. I have zero time for Johan Brailsford and I know several people who have similar views. I also know a couple of people who have had dealings with him and do not like him at all.

Sorry MGT, I was only pointing to Timmers on who I presume he is British and others who are trying to sell the miracle.

The party lines:
* 'Those who are critical need to wake up and understand that cycling has changed. Hard work and sacrifice = results. End of story''
* 'In ten years time we'll probably look back and say: 'Sky paved the way'.

 

[lemoogle]

Well Dutchie how else can we clean the dirty sport up?

It a better thing to do than sit on the internet and whinge!

While you sit on the internet and gloat.

 

[vecchias]

Those who are defending Froome and Sky so blindly, reminds me of myself defending LA back in the day and I've learnt my lesson the hard way. So sad to see people never learn. So sad to see that people find it wrong and offensive to be skeptical.

Why did Thomas Frei dropped that GAS6 bomb out of the blue, I wonder. I think he deleted the tweet later on.

 

[MartinGT]

The amount of people who look at me and think I am mad when I say Froome and Sky are dirty is untrue.

Froome should be tested as Yellow jersey after each stage shouldnt he?
Froome should be tested after winning a stage?
Why arent things being detected?

These are questions I get all the time. I have even been thinking myself. Why would the UCI after the LA fall out hang themselves over this.

Yet watching the rise of Froome from nowhere and smashing people in TT's and then HC climbs (once again riding one handed) just makes me laugh.

How long do we have to wait to hear that Froome has been doping? His actions at press conferances are out of the LA book, rant and then storm out.

Why arent Sky giving the numbers etc to UCI & WADA rather than saying they will if asked for them? Why arent they being pro-active rather than sitting on them and taking flack. If they are clean, smash it and prove you are.

 

[kaffenback]

I won't quote all of this post, but it was a good en.

You say you are a journalist, what do you think of Walsh's sickening lack of independence re Sky, and that of (nearly all) other media?

Thanks. I was a sports journalist. Gave it up partly because I became tired of putting out virtual press releases and feeling that I was doing a disservice to myself, never mind the reader. I also clearly didn't have the balls that Walsh (and Kimmage) have. It takes a special kind of person - a champion in their own right to stick to their guns despite the derision, ridicule and intimidation sent their way.

He deserves great praise for the last 10 years and despite the uncertainty/confusion right now over his stance, I think the jury is still out and we should wait until we read his accounts in full.

You must have missed my post earlier today regarding Walsh specifically so I shall copy it for you below:

I would hold fire on Walsh for now. Yes, I have also been a little concerned with the general feel from him lately and his lack of suspicion but then again, he has been allowed to spend a lot of time with Sky, which is now almost up.
He will then hopefully share his findings but until then, he can't/wouldn't really compromise or upset anybody just before or during a massive race.
IF there is something negative to come out I have faith that he will be on the right side of the fence. Everything we have seen from him to this point would suggest that. Even Kimmage sounded a bit worried yesterday but its a delicate situation. Lets just wait until he ends his placement.

However, the odd soundbites he has come out with are true, however disappointing they may seem to us... that unless there is some very good evidence then he/we cannot start throwing accusations around.
Yes, that's exactly what we do but there is a difference. We have a lot more freedom and no reputation as such to lose. Walsh, after years of mistrust is now highly respected for his determination and belief in the truth which was based on documentary evidence from trusted sources. He stood by those sources, believed in them and did not stop until the truth finally came out.
I believe that now, he is in position to be approached by any number of people in the cycling world who may have similar information. This will not happen overnight. It could be months or years before there is something of substance to work with.

In the meantime, he could however ask valid questions and I am sure some will be asked within whatever articles/book he writes about his time with Sky.

Yes, his links to News International are a niggling concern but I have to believe in Walsh. Because if the good and the brave are bought, we are truly doomed

 

[User Guide]

The amount of people who look at me and think I am mad when I say Froome and Sky are dirty is untrue.

Froome should be tested as Yellow jersey after each stage shouldnt he?
Froome should be tested after winning a stage?
Why arent things being detected?

These are questions I get all the time. I have even been thinking myself. Why would the UCI after the LA fall out hang themselves over this.

Yet watching the rise of Froome from nowhere and smashing people in TT's and then HC climbs (once again riding one handed) just makes me laugh.

How long do we have to wait to hear that Froome has been doping? His actions at press conferances are out of the LA book, rant and then storm out.

Why arent Sky giving the numbers etc to UCI & WADA rather than saying they will if asked for them? Why arent they being pro-active rather than sitting on them and taking flack. If they are clean, smash it and prove you are.

Because Pat is loving all this.Magic scenario for him.Cant lose.
All attention is away from him and his behaviour over the LA (and bizaroness which followed)
An African winner well lots of votes from African federations for election/expanding cycling spiel
Froome gets busted,dirty Britain ,Cookson in a bad spot.
When was the last editorial/article about Pat/UCI etc??

In some ways I think the focus on Froome(who I think is undoubtedly dirty) takes away from the real problem,the UCI and pat/hein hedegemony.
Riders will always cheat,take shortcuts and bend the rules(TUE etc)
Ourselves and the media always focus on them and its hard not too they are the ones on TV
But having some semblence of transparency and faith in the governence would be much better in the long run than popping team A or rider B
Im not saying we hand out free passes here,just remember who lets all this **** happen.

 

[gillan1969]

Disgusting attitude that goes against the very essence of sport.

Competing is a privilege not a right. Having a go is what is important. Your attitude is a straight out reflection of everything that is wrong with GB ATM.

Your golden gongs won't last and they will forever be tarnished.

well said...methinks wallace and gromit might be a 'competitive dad'

hope his kids don't disappoint....

 

[timmers]

While you sit on the internet and gloat.

Well I have some faith in AFLD who I think are doing the testing no? If Froome and any one else in Sky are doping then I will be disappointed but its only sport! It would mean the end of the British Cycling competitive programme and that will give others a chance to win so there would be an upside!
What I find annoying is a website that I have used for years has a a forum that is ruined by a few. I repeat if you have the evidence use it to have the rider sanctioned.