Teams & Riders Froome Talk Only

[peloton]

I had heard of Cobo before the race.

I remember well the surprised tone here back in the -11 Vuelta days, Froome, who?
Many of us were giving Sky and Froome the benefit of the doubt.

Funny, looking back.

 

[burning]

I remember well the surprised tone here back in the -11 Vuelta days, Froome, who?
Many of us were giving Sky and Froome the benefit of the doubt.

Funny, looking back.

Froome for a top 5 and world tour point!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

That was from 2011 Tour de Suisse.

 

[Mellow Velo]

Another blatant lie from you. Brailsford claims he and Shane Sutton discovered Froome in 2006, and Walsh says they and several members of Sky team remarked after the 2009 Giro del Capo that this was going to be a future star.

You are correct.
I've been present when one of them said just that.

 

[peloton]

That was from 2011 Tour de Suisse.

Top 5 and WT points

I bet even WS didn't see that gigantic transformation

 

[Netserk]

That was from 2011 Tour de Suisse.

More gold from that day

Froome might be peaking for TdS. I think he had good chance for Top 10 here.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

More gold from that day

Indeed.

Stage 1 (7km ITT): 11th (+24" from Cancellara. Just behind Gerdemann)
Stage 2 (Crans-Montana MTF): 12th (+56" from Soler. Had an exploratory attack earlier on the climb. Just ahead of CN forum legend Francis de Greef)
Stage 3 (Grindelwald): 45th (+10'03 from Sagan. Over 5 minutes behind lauded climber José Joaquín Rojas)
Stage 4: 150th (+8'24 from Hushovd. In the laughing group, only Castroviejo who crashed badly finished behind Froome's grupetto)
Stage 5: 105th (+53" from Bozic. Just about the breaking up of groups near the end and not needing to be attentive in the péloton because of being down on GC)
Stage 6 (Malbun MTF): 129th (+21'44 from Kruijswijk. In the laughing group, nobody behind it)
Stage 7 (Serfaus MTF): 20th (+4'39 from de Gendt. That's misleading - this was the one stage he stayed with the leaders, the break took it. Strange to save your energy in the grupetto to expend it on a stage gifted to the breakaway, but then I'm not Master Tactician Dave Brailsford®)
Stage 8: 85th (+2'00 from Sagan)
Stage 9 (32km ITT): 9th (+1'02 from Cancellara. This is the one actually minorly impressive stage, you could argue).

GC: 47th +42'30 from Leipheimer. Just behind Sergey Renev. What's worse, this isn't something that can be argued as misleading due to his domestiquing duties; he was Sky's best GC finisher in the race and they didn't take a front-line sprinter either.

 

[Ferminal]

Still a very handy performance, many had been waiting years for such a breakout. His solid domestique effort in the Vuelta later in the year was really inevitable given he was riddled with bilharzia during this effort in Switzerland. Could you shine in the 4th GT whilst chronically ill?

Didn't think so.

 

[daveyt]

Another blatant lie from you. Brailsford claims he and Shane Sutton discovered Froome in 2006, and Walsh says they and several members of Sky team remarked after the 2009 Giro del Capo that this was going to be a future star.

Along with how many other future stars at sky? And then there were 2 years of Froome being quiet.

 

[Benotti69]

Along with how many other future stars at sky? And then there were 2 years of Froome being quiet.

Froome has been quiet, hanging off motorbikes, zig zagging up climbs, giving his bike to team mates till Vuelta'11 when no one predicted the explosive performance.

Now in a sport where that kind of performance can mean only 1 thing, you would imagine the guy, if truly clean, would be giving everything he could to show he was the real mccoy.

But all we got was misinformation, outright lies, and total obfuscation from Sky, Cound and Froome.

 

[daveyt]

Froome has been quiet, hanging off motorbikes, zig zagging up climbs, giving his bike to team mates till Vuelta'11 when no one predicted the explosive performance.

Now in a sport where that kind of performance can mean only 1 thing, you would imagine the guy, if truly clean, would be giving everything he could to show he was the real mccoy.

But all we got was misinformation, outright lies, and total obfuscation from Sky, Cound and Froome.

You know the motorbike thing was because of a knee injury, it means nothing in relation to Froome's ability. Why bring it up and try to twist facts? Are your arguments so weak?

 

[Benotti69]

You know the motorbike thing was because of a knee injury, it means nothing in relation to Froome's ability. Why bring it up and try to twist facts? Are your arguments so weak?

Where are the strong arguments for Froome's dramatic improvement?

Knee injury is that the same as PDMs stomach problems.....

 

[peloton]

You know the motorbike thing was because of a knee injury, it means nothing in relation to Froome's ability. Why bring it up and try to twist facts? Are your arguments so weak?

If he had a knee injury, why didn't he just quit the race instead of hanging onto a motorbike on a climb and get DQ'd?

 

[ScienceIsCool]

You know the motorbike thing was because of a knee injury, it means nothing in relation to Froome's ability. Why bring it up and try to twist facts? Are your arguments so weak?

Well there is all that data that shows a sudden jump in measured* FTP of ~15% starting at the Tour de Suisse in 2011. That's kind of a thing...

*This was measured by looking at each and every time trial (non-prologue or mountain) he had ever done. Since we don't have actual power values, I compared how much time (seconds per kilometer) he was losing to the winner. This takes away all the variables of weather, course, length, etc. Pre 2011 he was *very* consistent in how much time he lost, validating the method. Then literally one day the amount of time he lost shifted by an incredible 4.7 seconds. If we assume a racing speed of 50 km/hr that works out to a 15% shift in power.

John Swanson

 

[bobbins]

Another blatant lie from you. Brailsford claims he and Shane Sutton discovered Froome in 2006, and Walsh says they and several members of Sky team remarked after the 2009 Giro del Capo that this was going to be a future star.

Spotted at the Melbourne Commonwealth Games by Sutton and Doug Daily. But I'm sure Dave B will amend history to show he was there too

 

[daveyt]

Where are the strong arguments for Froome's dramatic improvement?

Knee injury is that the same as PDMs stomach problems.....

You're trolling me aren't you? Because on the other thread I answered a question and you accused me of trolling.

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

Well there is all that data that shows a sudden jump in measured* FTP of ~15% starting at the Tour de Suisse in 2011. That's kind of a thing...

*This was measured by looking at each and every time trial (non-prologue or mountain) he had ever done. Since we don't have actual power values, I compared how much time (seconds per kilometer) he was losing to the winner. This takes away all the variables of weather, course, length, etc. Pre 2011 he was *very* consistent in how much time he lost, validating the method. Then literally one day the amount of time he lost shifted by an incredible 4.7 seconds. If we assume a racing speed of 50 km/hr that works out to a 15% shift in power.

John Swanson

Good post.

Yet, not good enough.

The daywg went from pack fodder in Poland to one of the best GT and semi - GT's riders in about 3 weeks. Never seen that before. I do think Morris Possoni agrees with me on this one.

 

[Dr. Juice]

Nothing to see here. He started doping at some point in 2011. There are no other explanations that make sense. Only blood doping can give you that kind of jump ( well, not always to this extent but Dawg was a good responder).

But the other top guns also do it. Froome wanted to be successful and didn't have the talent to be a good GC rider clean. He could have had an honest clean career. His talent is decent, not bad.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Good post.

Yet, not good enough.

The daywg went from pack fodder in Poland to one of the best GT and semi - GT's riders in about 3 weeks. Never seen that before. I do think Morris Possoni agrees with me on this one.

Good name to bring up. One of Froome's best mountain performances in his career (one of only 3 mountain stage top 10s in Europe prior to that Vuelta) was when he was 9th to Poffe in the 2010 Brixia Tour, riding as a domestique for Morris Possoni. Froome finished a mighty 12th on the GC of that race, Possoni 2nd. Froome was 6'43 down on Pozzovivo, 2 mins back on Poffe and 4 on Passo Maniva. Sky got Possoni from HTC, another of the new clean generation teams. Yet he utterly sucked at Lampre... where's his GT?

 

[the sceptic]

“It’s a climbers' Tour next year so I’m going to have to work extra hard in the mountains and spend less time on practising time trialling. It’s also going to be important to be as light as possible so our nutrition will play a key role. There will be new tests for me as an individual, that’s what I’m looking forward to.

I suppose Froome will climb like Riis next year. Can't wait!

I thought nutrition already played a key role though. How can you get marginal gains on top of marginal gains?

 

[filipo]

Cobo's psychological problems play into that a lot. …. From his junior records I think we can probably surmise Cobo is at least a moderately talented cyclist, and therefore think there was more to differentiate 2010 Cobo from 2011 Cobo than "clean Bisonte/dirty Bisonte".

Been meaning to say this for a while, but Libertine, you are easily the most race- and sport-astute poster on here. Always a pleasure to read your insights.

 

[dolophonic]

I suppose Froome will climb like Riis next year. Can't wait!

I thought nutrition already played a key role though. How can you get marginal gains on top of marginal gains?

"Marginal Grains .."

Yes it will not be possible for Froome to get much lighter.. perhaps huffing helium as well as zenon

 

[mrhender]

Dr. Bermon, Froome’s (former?) personal doctor:

Seems legit

http://www.franreyesf.es/miniblog/?tag=stephane-bermon

 

[the sceptic]

Dr. Bermon, Froome’s (former?) personal doctor:

Seems legit

http://www.franreyesf.es/miniblog/?tag=stephane-bermon

Could it be they are testing Vo2 Max?

 

[lllludo]

Could it be they are testing Vo2 Max?

Indeed Dr Bermon is a specialist of VO2max testing at IM2S a Monaco based sport clinic
http://www.im2s.mc/praticiens/medecins/dr-stephane-bermon/

 

[The Hitch]

Indeed Dr Bermon is a specialist of VO2max testing at IM2S a Monaco based sport clinic
http://www.im2s.mc/praticiens/medecins/dr-stephane-bermon/

I like you