Teams & Riders Froome Talk Only

[Gung Ho Gun]

Must have happened in one of those races that are not on television

 

[thehog]

Re:

Must have happened in one of those races that are not on television

The Jock Race?

 

[fmk_RoI]

Re: Re:

So Froome was down with the lurgy in the last week of the race. That we knew. We knew that TVG exited with the lurgy. That Quintana was (yet again) fighting off the lurgy. The lurgy, after a wet stage like Plateau de Beille, of course there's going to be riders suffering with it later in the race.

That Frome was - on the start line - holding back a cough, what does that tell us? That he was a bit chesty or that he was coughing up a lung? There's a world of difference between the two. Some assume the worst, he was coughing up a lung.

What, though, is most interesting, is not that Froome had the lurgy, it's that Sky thought to treat it with a TUE. It's Sky's TUE policy that this story demands we look at. And maybe the way TUEs can get given out at the Tour, with the sign off of the race doctor - whither the star chamber that replaced Zorzoli's say so?

On a related note: Froome makes the point it was Sky suggested the TUE and he turned it down; Froome makes the point it was he who wanted the independent testing, despite pushback from Sky. He's opening a lot of distance between himself and the team. If only there was another team with really really deep pockets who could lure him to their ranks with promises of wealth undreamth of...

 

[pastronef]

Re: Re:

So Froome was down with the lurgy in the last week of the race. That we knew. We knew that TVG exited with the lurgy. That Quintana was (yet again) fighting off the lurgy. The lurgy, after a wet stage like Plateau de Beille, of course there's going to be riders suffering with it later in the race.

That Frrome was - on the start line - holding back a cough, what does that tell us? That he was a bit chesty or that he was coughing up a lung? There's a world of difference between the two. Some assume the worst, he was coughing up a lung.

What, though, is most interesting, is not that Froome had the lurgy, it's that Sky thought to treat it with a TUE. It's Sky's TUE policy that this story demands we look at. And maybe the way TUEs can get given out at the Tour, with the sign off of the race doctor - whither the star chamber that replaced Zorzoli's say so?

On a related note: Froome makes the point it was Sky suggested the TUE and he turned it down; Froome makes the point it was he who wanted the independent testing, despite pushback from Sky. He's opening a lot of distance between himself and the team. If only there was another team with really really deep pockets who could lure him to their ranks with promises of wealth undreamth of...

by reading some posts on here he was on the verge of being put into an iron lung

thank you for you explaination about the wet PdBeille stage and Quintana being a bit ill too.

 

[the sceptic]

"What has quizzed us has perhaps been his under-performance prior to this, rather than the over-performance here in Spain," he said.

"Physically Chris Froome is very gifted and we've always known that the power-to-weight ratio he produces is phenomenal.

"It's been puzzling though how some days he can be absolutely brilliant and other days he's struggled with the consistency."

Funny...Sir Dave was out the loop about badzilla..."puzzling" indeed

besides...I'm wondering on which were the days he was "absolutely brilliant" pre-Vulta...

The badzilla only showed up in races. He always put out Lance-esque w/kg numbers in training. And don't forget he beat Contador on a MTF once!

 

[SeriousSam]

Is there any believable indication Froome put out phenomenal w/kg before his transformation? Ie not just Sky saying so afterwards.

 

[thehog]

Re:

Is there any believable indication Froome put out phenomenal w/kg before his transformation? Ie not just Sky saying so afterwards.

Brailsford always knew Froome would be a multiple GT winner. He had him doing special push techniques in races to build strength of his upper body

 

[the sceptic]

Re:

Is there any believable indication Froome put out phenomenal w/kg before his transformation? Ie not just Sky saying so afterwards.

JV hinted to some mysterious top secret test results from 2007 but that's all I think.

The funny thing is, if Dawg can finish alpe d'huez 5th while being seriously ill he must have been on his deathbed for about a decade when he was messing around in the gruppetto with Henderson & co. And yet no one could be bothered to try and figure out what was wrong with him. Team Sky would rather give up on their once in a century talent rather than sending him to a doctor.

 

[Race Radio]

Re:

Is there any believable indication Froome put out phenomenal w/kg before his transformation? Ie not just Sky saying so afterwards.

If Froome does not provide anything from Pre 2011 Vuelta then the testing is worthless.

While Froome likes to say his transformation is due to Sky's innovative training the fact are he was not Part of Sky's "A" team until 2012. Didn't start working with Kerrison until 2013. Most indications are that he has not improved his output in this time.

Grappe was given 17 of Froome's post 2011 SRM files and he said

power he develops over two years is relatively stable

The calculations of the "Pseudo Scientists" confirm this. Veetoo's calculations for Froome's W/kg show that since the 2011 Vuelta he has not progressed as a climber. If Sky's training program is so good why no improvement in 4 years?

There have been rumors of some good tests in 2007 at the UCI cycling center
http://www.lavoixdunord.fr/sports/michel-theze-froome-ne-vient-pas-de-nulle-part-jna0b0n575753

It would be interesting if they found those tests. Froome has lost a large amount of weight since then though.

One other outlier is Froome and Porte's self reported times and Watts up the Madone. Froome has had some impressive performances in races but breaking 30 minutes on that climb and hitting 6.95 w/kg for 30 minutes is really insane.

 

[thehog]

Re: Re:

Is there any believable indication Froome put out phenomenal w/kg before his transformation? Ie not just Sky saying so afterwards.

JV hinted to some mysterious top secret test results from 2007 but that's all I think.

The funny thing is, if Dawg can finish alpe d'huez 5th while being seriously ill he must have been on his deathbed for about a decade when he was messing around in the gruppetto with Henderson & co. And yet no one could be bothered to try and figure out what was wrong with him. Team Sky would rather give up on their once in a century talent rather than sending him to a doctor.

As with all things JV most of it is just spin...

Interesting quote today from Contador on Froome:

"I think Froome is the most difficult rider I've faced"

"In terms of talent I think that Andy [Schleck] was ahead. He was class. Remember, he was in [Tinkoff] Saxo before I came here so I know a bit about his training, so I know that he was super, super class.

"He wasn't stronger than me in the time trials and that's really the problem with Froome, especially now in the flat time trials.

"He wasn't stronger than me in the time trials and that's really the problem with Froome, especially now in the flat time trials.

"If it's an uphill or hard time trial then I don't have too much of a problem but when it's flat like the one we had in Mont-Saint-Michel in 2013 and you look at his average of 55kph, I can't do that with my weight. If the speed is down at 49-50 then I have a chance."

http://www.cyclingnews.com/features/contador-exclusive-the-tour-de-france-is-the-focus-my-legacy-can-wait/

55kph avg for 63kg Dawg... that is insane

 

[LaFlorecita]

Contador: "I think Froome is the most difficult rider I've faced. In terms of talent I think that Andy [Schleck] was ahead."


Alberto seeing right through Dawg. Legend

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re: Re:

Is there any believable indication Froome put out phenomenal w/kg before his transformation? Ie not just Sky saying so afterwards.

JV hinted to some mysterious top secret test results from 2007 but that's all I think.

The funny thing is, if Dawg can finish alpe d'huez 5th while being seriously ill he must have been on his deathbed for about a decade when he was messing around in the gruppetto with Henderson & co. And yet no one could be bothered to try and figure out what was wrong with him. Team Sky would rather give up on their once in a century talent rather than sending him to a doctor.

As with all things JV most of it is just spin...

Interesting quote today from Contador on Froome:

"I think Froome is the most difficult rider I've faced"

"In terms of talent I think that Andy [Schleck] was ahead. He was class. Remember, he was in [Tinkoff] Saxo before I came here so I know a bit about his training, so I know that he was super, super class.

"He wasn't stronger than me in the time trials and that's really the problem with Froome, especially now in the flat time trials.

"He wasn't stronger than me in the time trials and that's really the problem with Froome, especially now in the flat time trials.

"If it's an uphill or hard time trial then I don't have too much of a problem but when it's flat like the one we had in Mont-Saint-Michel in 2013 and you look at his average of 55kph, I can't do that with my weight. If the speed is down at 49-50 then I have a chance."

http://www.cyclingnews.com/features/contador-exclusive-the-tour-de-france-is-the-focus-my-legacy-can-wait/

55kph avg for 63kg Dawg... that is insane

Alberto says "with my weight I will struggle in 55kph ITTs but I can do well in 49-50kph ITTs" his weight is 62kg but Dawg with 63kg can win 55kph ITTs

 

[pastronef]

Re: Re:

"I think Froome is the most difficult rider I've faced"

"In terms of talent I think that Andy [Schleck] was ahead. He was class. Remember, he was in [Tinkoff] Saxo before I came here so I know a bit about his training, so I know that he was super, super class.

"He wasn't stronger than me in the time trials and that's really the problem with Froome, especially now in the flat time trials.

"He wasn't stronger than me in the time trials and that's really the problem with Froome, especially now in the flat time trials.

"If it's an uphill or hard time trial then I don't have too much of a problem but when it's flat like the one we had in Mont-Saint-Michel in 2013 and you look at his average of 55kph, I can't do that with my weight. If the speed is down at 49-50 then I have a chance."


http://www.cyclingnews.com/features/contador-exclusive-the-tour-de-france-is-the-focus-my-legacy-can-wait/

55kph avg for 63kg Dawg... that is insane
Alberto says "with my weight I will struggle in 55kph ITTs but I can do well in 49-50kph ITTs" his weight is 62kg but Dawg with 63kg can win 55kph ITTs

both of them are strong TTers
they´ve beat Cancellara and T.Martin

 

[the sceptic]

Re:

Contador: "I think Froome is the most difficult rider I've faced. In terms of talent I think that Andy [Schleck] was ahead."


Alberto seeing right through Dawg. Legend

"most difficult" is omerta-speak for most doped.

I think what he is saying is that back in the day, everyone knew what everyone else were doing, but now he is up against this alien rider who has access to something beyond what the peloton considers as normal.

 

[thehog]

Re: Re:

Contador: "I think Froome is the most difficult rider I've faced. In terms of talent I think that Andy [Schleck] was ahead."


Alberto seeing right through Dawg. Legend

"most difficult" is omerta-speak for most doped.

I think what he is saying is that back in the day, everyone knew what everyone else were doing, but now he is up against this alien rider who has access to something beyond what the peloton considers as normal.

Contador threw Shleck in there just to make sure everyone knew he actually meant “doping” rather than actual term “talent”.

 

[the sceptic]

Re: Re:

"I think Froome is the most difficult rider I've faced"

"In terms of talent I think that Andy [Schleck] was ahead. He was class. Remember, he was in [Tinkoff] Saxo before I came here so I know a bit about his training, so I know that he was super, super class.

"He wasn't stronger than me in the time trials and that's really the problem with Froome, especially now in the flat time trials.

"He wasn't stronger than me in the time trials and that's really the problem with Froome, especially now in the flat time trials.

"If it's an uphill or hard time trial then I don't have too much of a problem but when it's flat like the one we had in Mont-Saint-Michel in 2013 and you look at his average of 55kph, I can't do that with my weight. If the speed is down at 49-50 then I have a chance."


http://www.cyclingnews.com/features/contador-exclusive-the-tour-de-france-is-the-focus-my-legacy-can-wait/

55kph avg for 63kg Dawg... that is insane
Alberto says "with my weight I will struggle in 55kph ITTs but I can do well in 49-50kph ITTs" his weight is 62kg but Dawg with 63kg can win 55kph ITTs

both of them are strong TTers
they´ve beat Cancellara and T.Martin

When did Contador ride a TT with 55 km/h average?

 

[gillan1969]

Re: Re:

Is there any believable indication Froome put out phenomenal w/kg before his transformation? Ie not just Sky saying so afterwards.

If Froome does not provide anything from Pre 2011 Vuelta then the testing is worthless.

While Froome likes to say his transformation is due to Sky's innovative training the fact are he was not Part of Sky's "A" team until 2012. Didn't start working with Kerrison until 2013. Most indications are that he has not improved his output in this time.

Grappe was given 17 of Froome's post 2011 SRM files and he said

power he develops over two years is relatively stable

The calculations of the "Pseudo Scientists" confirm this. Veetoo's calculations for Froome's W/kg show that since the 2011 Vuelta he has not progressed as a climber. If Sky's training program is so good why no improvement in 4 years?

There have been rumors of some good tests in 2007 at the UCI cycling center
http://www.lavoixdunord.fr/sports/michel-theze-froome-ne-vient-pas-de-nulle-part-jna0b0n575753

It would be interesting if they found those tests. Froome has lost a large amount of weight since then though.

One other outlier is Froome and Porte's self reported times and Watts up the Madone. Froome has had some impressive performances in races but breaking 30 minutes on that climb and hitting 6.95 w/kg for 30 minutes is really insane.

this is after the event though.....if 'Froomey' was/is, as Grappe states, "close to currently known physiological limits" youwould have thought that somebody in the cycling world might have mentioned it over the course of 4 years?
but?
...nothing...only post transformation...if a physiologist had the world's fittest ever individual ever (or thereabouts)...you would have thought it might have sparked some interest...but no...nothing...just a bottom of the class from sir dave.....

 

[Angliru]

Re: Re:

@the sceptic:
I thought the point he was making was that he can't do a 55 km/hour average itt on the flats and he feels that is the advantage that Froome has over him.

 

[Merckx index]

Re: Re:

Alberto says "with my weight I will struggle in 55kph ITTs but I can do well in 49-50kph ITTs" his weight is 62kg but Dawg with 63kg can win 55kph ITTs

Froome never close to 63 kg that I know of. IIRC, Grappe said his weight never fluctuated much from 69 kg during the post-2011 period for which he was given data. I think the lowest speculated on might be 66-67.

Froome has the body type for an ITT specialist, it's always been his climbing that has been hard to understand. That said, don't forget ScienceisCool's analysis that found an increase in power of about 15% in ITTs from pre- to post-2011. So it can't all be just weight loss.

 

[Archibald]

Re: Re:

So Froome was down with the lurgy in the last week of the race. That we knew. We knew that TVG exited with the lurgy. That Quintana was (yet again) fighting off the lurgy. The lurgy, after a wet stage like Plateau de Beille, of course there's going to be riders suffering with it later in the race.

That Frome was - on the start line - holding back a cough, what does that tell us? That he was a bit chesty or that he was coughing up a lung? There's a world of difference between the two. Some assume the worst, he was coughing up a lung.

What, though, is most interesting, is not that Froome had the lurgy, it's that Sky thought to treat it with a TUE. It's Sky's TUE policy that this story demands we look at. And maybe the way TUEs can get given out at the Tour, with the sign off of the race doctor - whither the star chamber that replaced Zorzoli's say so?

On a related note: Froome makes the point it was Sky suggested the TUE and he turned it down; Froome makes the point it was he who wanted the independent testing, despite pushback from Sky. He's opening a lot of distance between himself and the team. If only there was another team with really really deep pockets who could lure him to their ranks with promises of wealth undreamth of...

one who's main GC rider is retiring next season...

 

[thehog]

Re: Re:

Alberto says "with my weight I will struggle in 55kph ITTs but I can do well in 49-50kph ITTs" his weight is 62kg but Dawg with 63kg can win 55kph ITTs

Froome never close to 63 kg that I know of. IIRC, Grappe said his weight never fluctuated much from 69 kg during the post-2011 period for which he was given data. I think the lowest speculated on might be 66-67.

Froome has the body type for an ITT specialist, it's always been his climbing that has been hard to understand. That said, don't forget ScienceisCool's analysis that found an increase in power of about 15% in ITTs from pre- to post-2011. So it can't all be just weight loss.

I'd say he is 64-65kg in this 2015 photo. In 2012 he was even skinnier. 2013 he was 65kg.

Contador is right. 55km p/hour is pure insanity for Froome.

 

[Farcanal]

Re: Re:

Alberto says "with my weight I will struggle in 55kph ITTs but I can do well in 49-50kph ITTs" his weight is 62kg but Dawg with 63kg can win 55kph ITTs

Froome never close to 63 kg that I know of. IIRC, Grappe said his weight never fluctuated much from 69 kg during the post-2011 period for which he was given data. I think the lowest speculated on might be 66-67.

Froome has the body type for an ITT specialist, it's always been his climbing that has been hard to understand. That said, don't forget ScienceisCool's analysis that found an increase in power of about 15% in ITTs from pre- to post-2011. So it can't all be just weight loss.

I'd say he is 64-65kg in this 2015 photo. In 2012 he was even skinnier. 2013 he was 65kg.

Contador is right. 55km p/hour is pure insanity for Froome.

That is ridiculous. It is not possible to estimate any persons weight within 3 - 4 kg even if you are standing in front of them, and you certainly can't from a photograph, or even comparison of photographs.

 

[staubsauger]

Re: Re:

So Froome was down with the lurgy in the last week of the race. That we knew. We knew that TVG exited with the lurgy. That Quintana was (yet again) fighting off the lurgy. The lurgy, after a wet stage like Plateau de Beille, of course there's going to be riders suffering with it later in the race.

That Frome was - on the start line - holding back a cough, what does that tell us? That he was a bit chesty or that he was coughing up a lung? There's a world of difference between the two. Some assume the worst, he was coughing up a lung.

What, though, is most interesting, is not that Froome had the lurgy, it's that Sky thought to treat it with a TUE. It's Sky's TUE policy that this story demands we look at. And maybe the way TUEs can get given out at the Tour, with the sign off of the race doctor - whither the star chamber that replaced Zorzoli's say so?

On a related note: Froome makes the point it was Sky suggested the TUE and he turned it down; Froome makes the point it was he who wanted the independent testing, despite pushback from Sky. He's opening a lot of distance between himself and the team. If only there was another team with really really deep pockets who could lure him to their ranks with promises of wealth undreamth of...

one who's main GC rider is retiring next season...

Well, Tinkov likes Froome after all I think. Sky wants Thomas to lead a grand tour / the Tour some day and wants to make Landa the new Pantani.

I've seen stranger things happen in cycling than Tinkoff signing Froome.

Still not likely, of course.

 

[pastronef]

Froome, like Indurain, will not sign with other teams. I don´t see him in another environment

 

[StryderHells]

Froome, like Indurain, will not sign with other teams. I don´t see him in another environment

I don't know if I agree with that, he's a cocky guy and I think once one of Brailsfords other mutations come through the system and the money's right he will leave Sky. Big ego and big money are to seperate