Teams & Riders Froome Talk Only

[elduggo]

did Froomey go and give Alberto's family a big hug and a kiss after this, does anyone know?

 

[Kwibus]

I just wish they took his bike right after he finished and completely ripped it and checked every single part of it.
It's just looks so wrong.

I wished they did this with everyone in the top 10 btw. It's just when you see Froome riding it's as if he's using a motor. I'm not saying he does, but they should make sure
Not with an Ipad...

 

[Rollthedice]

Just found out this fascinating piece of journalism on Froome, it's up there with Walsh:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/men/active/cycling-champion-chris-froome-on-those-cheating-accusations---an/

some random quotes:

"his legs can unleash a sustained power output of over 400 watts – higher than a Black & Decker KS500 jigsaw, which can slice through steel"

"Froome leads the way with his head down and elbows jutting out – an idiosyncratic style honed on the dirt tracks of Kenya’s Ngong Hills"

"While Froome’s friends lounged around pools, he was chasing older riders along bumpy roads in the hills, often sleeping top to tail with Kenyan boys in Kinjah’s single-room, tin-roof home, after long rides. They called him ‘Murungaru’ (gangly kid)."

"Living and training at altitude, where the body adapts to the thin air by producing more oxygen-carrying red blood cells, surely increased Froome’s stamina. ‘I think it has a lot to do with how I turned out. Especially if you draw comparisons with Nairo Quintana [runner-up in last year’s Tour] who was also born at altitude, in Colombia."

"Sir Dave Brailsford, then head of British Cycling and now Froome’s boss at Team Sky, remembers him as ‘the kid in the sandals’."

"His coaches couldn’t understand why he would impress in some races (fifth in the 2010 Commonwealth Games time trial) but fade in others. Then in late 2010 he was diagnosed with bilharzia, a waterborne parasitic disease, which he believes he caught while swimming in rivers or cycling through stagnant water in Kenya."

"Put simply, his extraordinary engine was there nine years ago, but only through coaching and dedication (and dealing with bilharzia) did he reach his potential. Another secret behind his improvement was weight loss. Between 2007 and 2015 Froome dropped from 75.6kg to 67kg (about 11st 8lb to 10st 5lb)."

"Science confirms Froome is a supreme athlete and his gifts can be credibly attributed to nature (living and training at altitude) and nurture (his strict training and diet)."

 

[PremierAndrew]

Re:

I just wish they took his bike right after he finished and completely ripped it and checked every single part of it.
It's just looks so wrong.

I wished they did this with everyone in the top 10 btw. It's just when you see Froome riding it's as if he's using a motor. I'm not saying he does, but they should make sure
Not with an Ipad...

I'd be shocked if someone with a strong palmares like Froome would risk it for more glory by using a motor. Getting caught doping is one thing. Getting caught on a motorbike is another.

 

[Benotti69]

Amazing how Froome does so well at ASO races........

 

[gooner]

Re:

Amazing how Froome does so well at ASO races........

Romandie twice, T-A in 2013, Andalucia last year. Not to mention, how many non-ASO races that Sky as a team have done well in.

 

[thehog]

Re: Re:

Amazing how Froome does so well at ASO races........

Romandie twice, T-A in 2013, Andalucia last year. Not to mention, how many non-ASO races that Sky as a team have done well in.

Well to be fair this year when Froome did poorly at Romandie he accuses the organizers of having a conflict of interest. Conflict of interest, indeed

 

[thehog]

Re:

Just found out this fascinating piece of journalism on Froome, it's up there with Walsh:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/men/active/cycling-champion-chris-froome-on-those-cheating-accusations---an/

some random quotes:

"his legs can unleash a sustained power output of over 400 watts – higher than a Black & Decker KS500 jigsaw, which can slice through steel"

"Froome leads the way with his head down and elbows jutting out – an idiosyncratic style honed on the dirt tracks of Kenya’s Ngong Hills"

"While Froome’s friends lounged around pools, he was chasing older riders along bumpy roads in the hills, often sleeping top to tail with Kenyan boys in Kinjah’s single-room, tin-roof home, after long rides. They called him ‘Murungaru’ (gangly kid)."

"Living and training at altitude, where the body adapts to the thin air by producing more oxygen-carrying red blood cells, surely increased Froome’s stamina. ‘I think it has a lot to do with how I turned out. Especially if you draw comparisons with Nairo Quintana [runner-up in last year’s Tour] who was also born at altitude, in Colombia."

"Sir Dave Brailsford, then head of British Cycling and now Froome’s boss at Team Sky, remembers him as ‘the kid in the sandals’."

"His coaches couldn’t understand why he would impress in some races (fifth in the 2010 Commonwealth Games time trial) but fade in others. Then in late 2010 he was diagnosed with bilharzia, a waterborne parasitic disease, which he believes he caught while swimming in rivers or cycling through stagnant water in Kenya."

"Put simply, his extraordinary engine was there nine years ago, but only through coaching and dedication (and dealing with bilharzia) did he reach his potential. Another secret behind his improvement was weight loss. Between 2007 and 2015 Froome dropped from 75.6kg to 67kg (about 11st 8lb to 10st 5lb)."

"Science confirms Froome is a supreme athlete and his gifts can be credibly attributed to nature (living and training at altitude) and nurture (his strict training and diet)."

That is truly awesome!

My fav

"His coaches couldn’t understand why he would impress in some races (fifth in the 2010 Commonwealth Games time trial) but fade in others. Then in late 2010 he was diagnosed with bilharzia, a waterborne parasitic disease, which he believes he caught while swimming in rivers or cycling through stagnant water in Kenya."

5th at the Commonwealth Games time trial was a good result? then Badzhilla!

 

[SeriousSam]

Brilliant article. Sir Dave Brailsford, the sand shoes, the fabricated origin story, the disease of champions, it's all in there.

 

[Rollthedice]

The most interesting part is that he becomes an altitude native like Quintana, many red blood cells included. Mind you, Henao is not mentioned. So he has more rbc than usual naturally, then badzilla strikes and feeds on those rbc. Murungaru's blood passport could be as puzzling as this:

"what transpired between 2007 and the 2011 Vuelta is something that we may not ever find the answer to."

J. Swart.

 

[thehog]

Re:

The most interesting part is that he becomes an altitude native like Quintana, many red blood cells included. Mind you, Henao is not mentioned. So he has more rbc than usual naturally, then badzilla strikes and feeds on those rbc. Murungaru's blood passport could be as puzzling as this:

"what transpired between 2007 and the 2011 Vuelta is something that we may not ever find the answer to."

J. Swart.

The experts concluded that Froome’s V02 max of 88.2 was close to the ‘upper limits’ of human potential and, crucially, represented ‘a similar absolute aerobic capacity’ to another remarkable figure of 80.2 he had achieved in a test at the Swiss Olympic Medical Center in 2007.

Put simply, his extraordinary engine was there nine years ago, but only through coaching and dedication (and dealing with bilharzia) did he reach his potential. Another secret behind his improvement was weight loss. Between 2007 and 2015 Froome dropped from 75.6kg to 67kg (about 11st 8lb to 10st 5lb).

This dramatically enhanced what is known as his ‘power-to-weight ratio’ – a key performance marker in mountain races, where gravity is the enemy. Every kilogram of bodyweight equates to carrying an extra bag of sugar up a mountain. Froome had effectively jettisoned 8.6 bags of sugar, making him lighter and faster.

Today even clean samples are frozen to await retrospective checks as testing science advances. ‘If there are still guys breaking the rules it is only a matter of time before they get caught,’ insists Froome.

The Froome physiological testing is already setting the narrative, job done.

The dope testing works and there’s retrospective testing for all not just the Russians!

 

[deeno1975]

Asked Froome if he was bluffing Contador at all before his attack. 'Just riding at my own pace,' he said, smiling.

https://mobile.twitter.com/jeremycwhittle/status/741338860609785856
This is what Jeremy Whittle tweeted... Looks like "Froomey" was having a bit of a laugh, taking the p1ss, shows how little pressure he was under.

 

[Pantani Attacks]

What a embarrassing piece of journalism. That doesn't explain how crap he was at Barloworld.

Sandal boy has potential for a hilarious meme though. Always knew Froome was a bit of a softy deep down.

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re:

Asked Froome if he was bluffing Contador at all before his attack. 'Just riding at my own pace,' he said, smiling.

https://mobile.twitter.com/jeremycwhittle/status/741338860609785856
This is what Jeremy Whittle tweeted... Looks like "Froomey" was having a bit of a laugh, taking the p1ss, shows how little pressure he was under.

Just marvelous. How long before someone finally ends this farce? What's WADA up to?

 

[PremierAndrew]

True, Contador is the rider who won the largest amount of GTs since 2012. However, he won 0 Tours since 2009.
You can justify everything you want, but the Tour is the greatest GT of all and Contador simply hasn't delivered good performances there, at least, good enough to win it. Whether that's due to lack of form, lack of capacity, or lack of something else is irrelevant to the point. Froome, on the other hand, won 2 of them, hence why Contador's not the greatest GT rider since 2010/11.

About the sudden rise of Froome, well, we can also talk about the drop of form of Contador since 2012. Not in this part of the forum, but it's quite clear it has happened. Contador was an absolute beast since his ban, but after it he no longer was the guy from who people could say "it's a little bit too scary when Contador attacks".


My point here is obvious: though Contador is still one of the best, he can no longer crush the opposition as he could before 2012. Back in the day, only Schleck could accompany him. Now he can barely accompany Froome and Quintana.

So what's Froome's excuse of being an absolute nobody from 2007 till 2011? Contador has shown brilliant performances ever since he became a pro back in 2003. Either different peaks in their career (early burner vs. late burner) or something we can't discuss here.

Having a good youth record means nothing whatsoever. Many athletes start programmes as teenagers when they realise they have a decent chance of making it onto the pro scene

Find me one champion in today's cycling world that didn't show some promising results in the youth ranks. Boonen, Cancellara, Contador, Sagan, Nibali, Kittel, Degenkolb, Valverde, Quintana, Kwiatkowski etc. were winning races left and right in the youth ranks...

And you're not allowed to answer with Froome.

Froome showed enough in his early early days to suggest that he could be a decent dom at WT level in the future. Ok that's a lot less than what he can do now.
But if you're going to refuse programmes, then you probably have moral values, and they're unlikely to change. So either you go on programmes right from the start, or you don't go on them at all.

On the other hand, some manage to achieve success, and then decide they no longer want to risk this and stop. A couple of recent examples of this would be Cobo and Schleck.

But it's very unlikely that some would start in the middle of their career. This only happens when a) the athlete didn't have any access to PEDs earlier in their career, b) they're at risk of losing their career because they're not performing well enough or c) team sponsorship risk -> team fuelled programmes (eg Katusha last year)

Froome's case is very peculiar, so he stands out. People think option b is Froome's reason for his sudden improvement. However, Froome had a verbal agreement for a contract with Lampre prior to the 2011 Vuelta, so he was still going to be able to feed his family etc.

Previously, Froome had a tendency to attack every single time he felt good. Maybe being restricted to staying in the peloton and pacing himself properly while working for Wiggins, instead of being allowed to attack, helped him show his real level. Of course, this real level was seriously augmented, and doping seems like the only real explanation for that, but not enough to account for the *MASSIVE* difference in ability. So you have to look at possibilities such as conserving energy better, staying better positioned within the peloton etc. And of course, nearing the end of contract has to provide motivation too, and this should not be underestimated.

There's simply no way Sky put Froome on a program themselves if he wasn't on one previously, considering he'd be leaving. Therefore, even if Sky did have some super drugs for Wiggins that nobody else had access to (as some people here seem to believe), Froome was only going to have access to whatever everyone else had available. And surely you don't think the likes of Valverde Contador Nibali Cobo Menchov Purito etc were clean either.

So, why do those guys have consistently good results from their youth to their prime while Froome doesn't? You tell me

 

[Benotti69]

The idea that Froome was not doping at Barloworld is crazy.

 

[LaFlorecita]

And surely you don't think the likes of Valverde Contador Nibali Cobo Menchov Purito etc were clean either.

So, why do those guys have consistently good results from their youth to their prime while Froome doesn't? You tell me

Because they aren't walking and talking lab experiments?

 

[Red Rick]

I'm starting to wonder how much benefit Froome has from not following accelerations until he makes his own move.

 

[Valv.Piti]

Re:

I'm starting to wonder how much benefit Froome has from not following accelerations until he makes his own move.

I'd say quite a bit, at least compared to Contador. Many deploy that same strategy, but it isn't as noticeable since they simply aren't as good as Froome, but Contador often follows until he completely cracks. You can call it bluff, but Froome knows it by now.

 

[Digger]

It's my view froome flew solo regarding doping for the 2011 Vuelta - definitely not under the guidance of Sky - however once he had done that vuelta what could sky do? They'd have known but how could they let him go? That would be a tacit acceptance he doped on their watch...I don't believe there is team wide sky doping. I believe it's a select handful. 2010 they did it clean, it was embarrassing.
Wiggins knows how he won - he isn't proud of it.
Froome on the other hand loves it and keeps going. This guy has two tour wins - he should have three (2012).
2014 who knows...
Fact is that if he's clean he's the greatest cyclist ever...most physically talented at any rate. That 5th in the commonwealth games is shown as a highlight performance is an indicator of his class as a cyclist. It's the single most dramatic transformation ever seen in cycling. And we are meant to believe it's better bike handling and curing of bilharzia, when they told kimmage it wasn't that far gone to begin with.
Weight loss...which is another can of worms of course. Lose weight, gain power. No problem!
That attack today - it's really at the stage where we laugh. It's absurd. Who else has attacked so violently over the years? Contador in 2007? We saw how that ended...Ricco 2008? CERA...

But hey, it's clearly crazy adaptive physiology JV - and he wonders why he gets sh**

 

[PremierAndrew]

Re:

I'm starting to wonder how much benefit Froome has from not following accelerations until he makes his own move.

A fair bit I'd imagine. Although the yo-yoing really started in the 2014 Vuelta, he didn't exactly follow the attacks in the first week of the 2012 Vuelta, when he was good, either.

But he didn't do that in the 2013 Tour, so that doesn't explain at all the massive improvement in his ability

 

[PremierAndrew]

Re:

It's my view froome flew solo regarding doping for the 2011 Vuelta - definitely not under the guidance of Sky - however once he had done that vuelta what could sky do? They'd have known but how could they let him go? That would be a tacit acceptance he doped on their watch...I don't believe there is team wide sky doping. I believe it's a select handful. 2010 they did it clean, it was embarrassing.

I'd argue the opposite. Before the 2011 Vuelta, during his time at Sky, Froome was practically as unlikely as any other rider in the peloton to be doping. Then suddenly he improves big time. Suspicious for sure, and with Sky's zero tolerance policy, they should have forced him out if they genuinely wanted to be clean and didn't just say that *** for PR purposes. If he hadn't renewed with Sky, Froome had been clean during his time at Sky except for one race, and then Sky ditched him immediately after that one race. I certainly wouldn't point any fingers at Sky if they did that.

and he wonders why he gets sh**

Look at his competition. You reckon it's possible to win clean? It's a level playing field.
And what's he supposed to say?

"Chris, are you doping?"
"Yes, but so are all my rivals. Come at me UCI with your two year suspension and come at me lawsuits for unproven allegations"

 

[jilbiker]

Re:

Another reason why Froome is possibly on his way to becoming the greatest clean cylist of all time with that vicious acceleration. His acting skills aren't bad either with the 'feigning of getting dropped' just before the demonstration of insane cadence.

Is the slow down a time to warm up the motor? I don't think he is acting, he needs to wind it up. Ha-ha, I am talking as if it is a motor from the 19th century but who know how these things work exactly. Perhaps we are looking for a motor start like a 21st century motor but it is cleverly disguised as a 19th century style.

Hey Bertie said he did not do "motor training". What does that mean wrt dealing with Froome attacks? I was thinking how anyone can train for these motorized accelerations? Got to use a real car to train to simulate these accelerations...wow.

 

[gooner]

I don't think Froome in the Vuelta '11 was doping with the team's knowledge either. What has been disclosed suggest that.

There was a couple of interesting stories in The Daily Mail in relation to this. One, was that Brailsford was offering him around to teams prior to his transformation. Two, is that they quoted a source with the team at the time, that said Brailsford came up to him and spoke about his suspicions that Froome was doping. This also ties in with Freeman telling Walsh he had his own suspicions and that he went to look into Froome's values and data for himself.

 

[El Pistolero]

Re: Re:

It's my view froome flew solo regarding doping for the 2011 Vuelta - definitely not under the guidance of Sky - however once he had done that vuelta what could sky do? They'd have known but how could they let him go? That would be a tacit acceptance he doped on their watch...I don't believe there is team wide sky doping. I believe it's a select handful. 2010 they did it clean, it was embarrassing.

I'd argue the opposite. Before the 2011 Vuelta, during his time at Sky, Froome was practically as unlikely as any other rider in the peloton to be doping. Then suddenly he improves big time. Suspicious for sure, and with Sky's zero tolerance policy, they should have forced him out if they genuinely wanted to be clean and didn't just say that **** for PR purposes. If he hadn't renewed with Sky, Froome had been clean during his time at Sky except for one race, and then Sky ditched him immediately after that one race. I certainly wouldn't point any fingers at Sky if they did that.

and he wonders why he gets sh**

Look at his competition. You reckon it's possible to win clean? It's a level playing field.
And what's he supposed to say?

"Chris, are you doping?"
"Yes, but so are all my rivals. Come at me UCI with your two year suspension and come at me lawsuits for unproven allegations"

It's not a level playing field at all, Team Sky's budget is so much higher than most other teams. Like in every team sport it's the money that decides all. And money goes far beyond doping as well: just look at his team-mates, they could drop all GC contenders in the Tour and still have 5 riders left. Just buy the strongest riders on the market and there's no way you can lose. Froome will never be in trouble in this year's Tour simply because of his ridiculously strong team compared to the other contenders.