Teams & Riders Froome Talk Only

[DFA123]

I don't get the consternation regarding Froome's performance yesterday. He lost 30 seconds on a single big climb stage, while trying to pace himself to ensure he didn't absolutely crack. That's way less suspicious than him utterly dominating the Tour de France from the front every year.

 

[PremierAndrew]

Re: Re:

Froome explains (or tries to explain) his "miraculous recovery" on an Irish site, Sticky Bottle

http://www.stickybottle.com/latest-news/froome-explains-miraculous-recovery-on-vuelta-mountain/

Moto/doping speculation aside, 6.17w p/kg for 35 minutes is about right for Froome. It most certainly is in the higher questionable areas of wattage but that's not unusual for Froome.

After a Tour de France. I'd say that's very unusual.

Yes, that I agree with. Quintana I don't have a huge issue with, his weight works well for him on these steeper climbs. Froome is rather worrying considering he will also smash the TTs and Quintana will need about 3 minutes by that point.

Maybe compared to Froome he's not that suspicious, but then compared to Froome anyone looks clean.
And in fact, Quintana and Valverde were both more suspicious than Froome yesterday if you ask me

 

[thehog]

Re: Re:

Froome explains (or tries to explain) his "miraculous recovery" on an Irish site, Sticky Bottle

http://www.stickybottle.com/latest-news/froome-explains-miraculous-recovery-on-vuelta-mountain/

Moto/doping speculation aside, 6.17w p/kg for 35 minutes is about right for Froome. It most certainly is in the higher questionable areas of wattage but that's not unusual for Froome.

After a Tour de France. I'd say that's very unusual.

Yes, that I agree with. Quintana I don't have a huge issue with, his weight works well for him on these steeper climbs. Froome is rather worrying considering he will also smash the TTs and Quintana will need about 3 minutes by that point.

Maybe compared to Froome he's not that suspicious, but then compared to Froome anyone looks clean.
And in fact, Quintana and Valverde were both more suspicious than Froome yesterday if you ask me

Quintana is doping, I just don't have a huge issue with it. Froome is clearly less talented that the top 10 in this race but is getting the most benefit from his doping.

 

[silvergrenade]

Re:

Probably a motor, he turns it on when no one's near him. This is the only explanation one can give for this donkey turned elite climber anyway. We're talking about the guy who got kicked out of the Giro because he couldn't climb fast enough for crying out loud. That never even happened to Cavendish.

Does he have video footage of Crookson cheating his wife or what?

Contador fans coming here and disgracing an amazing cyclist with their stupid theories since their boy cant beat him heads up. To me it looked like contadors motor stopped working. Probably an electrical issue. Not his fault though; he can always come up with a million excuses anyway. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Really hilarious to see.

 

[Fergoose]

Froome will likely do his usual Vuelta fade in the second half of the race but hold on to a top 5 spot. To be honest I find that a little puzzling from him as I am convinced he is a doper and Valverde this year is showing there are solutions out there to make you peak for 3 GTs regardless of how old you are. I can't really form an explanation for why Froome doesn't do everything possible to win the Vuelta and yet if Movistar are a step ahead in their preparation why can't they reproduce that at the TdF?

 

[sniper]

Re:

Froome will likely do his usual Vuelta fade in the second half of the race but hold on to a top 5 spot. To be honest I find that a little puzzling from him as I am convinced he is a doper and Valverde this year is showing there are solutions out there to make you peak for 3 GTs regardless of how old you are. I can't really form an explanation for why Froome doesn't do everything possible to win the Vuelta and yet if Movistar are a step ahead in their preparation why can't they reproduce that at the TdF?

Sky have no doubt learned a valuable lesson from USPS and Lance that too much is simply too much.

 

[silvergrenade]

Re: Re:

Froome explains (or tries to explain) his "miraculous recovery" on an Irish site, Sticky Bottle

http://www.stickybottle.com/latest-news/froome-explains-miraculous-recovery-on-vuelta-mountain/

Moto/doping speculation aside, 6.17w p/kg for 35 minutes is about right for Froome. It most certainly is in the higher questionable areas of wattage but that's not unusual for Froome.

After a Tour de France. I'd say that's very unusual.

Yes, that I agree with. Quintana I don't have a huge issue with, his weight works well for him on these steeper climbs. Froome is rather worrying considering he will also smash the TTs and Quintana will need about 3 minutes by that point.

Your Froome hate is sickening when known dopers are roaming around in the peloton.
Some food for thought meanwhile: " You can call me a cheater and doper until the cows come home. But the fact remains that in a race where everybody had equal opportunity, I played the game, and I played it well."
Tyler Hamilton

 

[doperhopper]

Re:

Froome will likely do his usual Vuelta fade in the second half of the race but hold on to a top 5 spot. To be honest I find that a little puzzling from him as I am convinced he is a doper and Valverde this year is showing there are solutions out there to make you peak for 3 GTs regardless of how old you are. I can't really form an explanation for why Froome doesn't do everything possible to win the Vuelta and yet if Movistar are a step ahead in their preparation why can't they reproduce that at the TdF?

looks like marginal PR gain, similar to that "physiological testing" thingy - thoughtfully prepared to make the Alien look a bit Human (we've seen that also at the Tour: circus aeropedalling on the descent, nice, entertaining, but absolutely unnecessary)

 

[86TDFWinner]

Re: Re:

Froome will likely do his usual Vuelta fade in the second half of the race but hold on to a top 5 spot. To be honest I find that a little puzzling from him as I am convinced he is a doper and Valverde this year is showing there are solutions out there to make you peak for 3 GTs regardless of how old you are. I can't really form an explanation for why Froome doesn't do everything possible to win the Vuelta and yet if Movistar are a step ahead in their preparation why can't they reproduce that at the TdF?

looks like marginal PR gain, similar to that "physiological testing" thingy - thoughtfully prepared to make the Alien look a bit Human (we've seen that also at the Tour: circus aeropedalling on the descent, nice, entertaining, but absolutely unnecessary)

Yep. A page right out of Wonderboys handbook

 

[pmcg76]

Re:

Froome will likely do his usual Vuelta fade in the second half of the race but hold on to a top 5 spot. To be honest I find that a little puzzling from him as I am convinced he is a doper and Valverde this year is showing there are solutions out there to make you peak for 3 GTs regardless of how old you are. I can't really form an explanation for why Froome doesn't do everything possible to win the Vuelta and yet if Movistar are a step ahead in their preparation why can't they reproduce that at the TdF?

Well this is a problem of the general view of doping. If you believed what was discussed here, then it would seem that doping is about 99% responsible for a riders performance when in all likelihood it is more like 5-10% or even smaller. Things like form, mentality, freshness, natural recovery(non doping), training(non doping), personal issues, motivation, team strength, team aims, timing, luck etc, etc are all vital compnents of performance. The riders can be doped all they want but if the other components are not there, then they wont be performing to the top of their game either. Sadly, too often performance is only viewed through the lenses of doping. Thus it doesn't make sense a lot of the time.

 

[DanielSong39]

Well, everyone has their favorite cyclist.

Yes, we know that Quintana, Contador, Nibali, and Valverde all dope. But the difference is that they "dope with style" - they don't have nearly as much bogus PR celebrating their "marginal gains", nor are they nearly as obsessed with creating a fake public image. Also, Contador and Valverde have served suspensions so there is the sense that they've paid their dues.

I'm not saying any of this is fair, but that may explain why Chris Froome is viewed more negatively compared to the other guys.

FYI, people probably had an even lower opinion of Bradley Wiggins but he dropped out of the spotlight rather quickly.

 

[Benotti69]

Re: Re:

Froome explains (or tries to explain) his "miraculous recovery" on an Irish site, Sticky Bottle

http://www.stickybottle.com/latest-news/froome-explains-miraculous-recovery-on-vuelta-mountain/

Moto/doping speculation aside, 6.17w p/kg for 35 minutes is about right for Froome. It most certainly is in the higher questionable areas of wattage but that's not unusual for Froome.

After a Tour de France. I'd say that's very unusual.

Yes, that I agree with. Quintana I don't have a huge issue with, his weight works well for him on these steeper climbs. Froome is rather worrying considering he will also smash the TTs and Quintana will need about 3 minutes by that point.

Your Froome hate is sickening when known dopers are roaming around in the peloton.
Some food for thought meanwhile: " You can call me a cheater and doper until the cows come home. But the fact remains that in a race where everybody had equal opportunity, I played the game, and I played it well."
Tyler Hamilton

Hamilton's quote is wrong and misguided.

I dont see Froome hate. What i see is the biggest transformation ever in pro cycling being called on it. Not hate, frustration. Massive difference.

 

[hfer07]

Re:

Well, everyone has their favorite cyclist.

Yes, we know that Quintana, Contador, Nibali, and Valverde all dope. But the difference is that they "dope with style" - they don't have nearly as much bogus PR celebrating their "marginal gains", nor are they nearly as obsessed with creating a fake public image. Also, Contador and Valverde have served suspensions so there is the sense that they've paid their dues.

I'm not saying any of this is fair, but that may explain why Chris Froome is viewed more negatively compared to the other guys.
FYI, people probably had an even lower opinion of Bradley Wiggins but he dropped out of the spotlight rather quickly.

The real matter about Froome & SKY is simply their background & attitude towards the sport- the Brits are too greedy & full of sh!t, selling the same 1999-2005 movie under a different PR and cover box....... At least LA & USPostal allowed other teams to win other races, SKY OTOH -with their new found training methodology BS are winning almost everything....... that's too much for the sport to handle without having serious thoughts on their "cleanness/fair game" if you like....

 

[Singer01]

Re: Re:

Well, everyone has their favorite cyclist.

Yes, we know that Quintana, Contador, Nibali, and Valverde all dope. But the difference is that they "dope with style" - they don't have nearly as much bogus PR celebrating their "marginal gains", nor are they nearly as obsessed with creating a fake public image. Also, Contador and Valverde have served suspensions so there is the sense that they've paid their dues.

I'm not saying any of this is fair, but that may explain why Chris Froome is viewed more negatively compared to the other guys.
FYI, people probably had an even lower opinion of Bradley Wiggins but he dropped out of the spotlight rather quickly.

The real matter about Froome & SKY is simply their background & attitude towards the sport- the Brits are too greedy & full of ****, selling the same 1999-2005 movie under a different PR and cover box....... At least LA & USPostal allowed other teams to win other races, SKY OTOH -with their new found training methodology BS are winning almost everything....... that's too much for the sport to handle without having serious thoughts on their "cleanness/fair game" if you like....

never won the giro, never won the vuelta, won 1 monument.

 

[The Hitch]

Re:

Froome will likely do his usual Vuelta fade in the second half of the race but hold on to a top 5 spot. To be honest I find that a little puzzling from him as I am convinced he is a doper and Valverde this year is showing there are solutions out there to make you peak for 3 GTs regardless of how old you are. I can't really form an explanation for why Froome doesn't do everything possible to win the Vuelta and yet if Movistar are a step ahead in their preparation why can't they reproduce that at the TdF?

If the Vuelta was as important as the TDF, then froome would be in 1st

 

[DanielSong39]

Re: Re:

Froome will likely do his usual Vuelta fade in the second half of the race but hold on to a top 5 spot. To be honest I find that a little puzzling from him as I am convinced he is a doper and Valverde this year is showing there are solutions out there to make you peak for 3 GTs regardless of how old you are. I can't really form an explanation for why Froome doesn't do everything possible to win the Vuelta and yet if Movistar are a step ahead in their preparation why can't they reproduce that at the TdF?

If the Vuelta was as important as the TDF, then froome would be in 1st

Winning the Vuelta after winning Tour de France is not that easy. This year, we see that Froome is below his best and Movistar is clearly stronger than Sky.

If Froome skipped the Tour and brought his "A" team to the Vuelta he would have a much better chance.

I don't rule out Froome going for the Giro-Vuelta double once he is supplanted as team leader at Sky. Maybe Landa will surpass him in a couple of years - you never know.

 

[inkdabink]

Who is "the type who dopes"? Froome is incredibly thin with an obviously low amount of subcut fat. Yet he excels at endurance and TT's I refer you to http://playtrue.wada-ama.org/news/wada-issues-alert-on-gw501516/ the link which WADA subsequently removed.
It referred to a banned peroxisome proliferating agent which was known to be widely used and aids fat loss with no resultant strength loss.

 

[inkdabink]

From what I've seen, and freely admit this is just an informed guess, the Tour is rigged. It's less a race than a game to provide the sponsors with cash, And it works, it brings new cycling fans in and a heap of money. In that respect, it's a positive thing.
BUT if you knew the GT was rigged, would you put any effort into it? Quintana & Contador are clearly putting effort into La Vuelta, which remains, in my mind, a race. And so much more exciting.

 

[Benotti69]

Re:

From what I've seen, and freely admit this is just an informed guess, the Tour is rigged. It's less a race than a game to provide the sponsors with cash, And it works, it brings new cycling fans in and a heap of money. In that respect, it's a positive thing.
BUT if you knew the GT was rigged, would you put any effort into it? Quintana & Contador are clearly putting effort into La Vuelta, which remains, in my mind, a race. And so much more exciting.

While i agree the TdF is 'rigged', the rider has to get to Paris. As we saw in 2011, Wiggins crashed out and Froome in 2014 crashed out. So yes Sky are the team who it appears are designated to win, but they have to get their rider to Paris. So other teams prepare, because they are next in line to scoop up the winnings should this happen.

 

[Benotti69]

Re: Re:

Froome will likely do his usual Vuelta fade in the second half of the race but hold on to a top 5 spot. To be honest I find that a little puzzling from him as I am convinced he is a doper and Valverde this year is showing there are solutions out there to make you peak for 3 GTs regardless of how old you are. I can't really form an explanation for why Froome doesn't do everything possible to win the Vuelta and yet if Movistar are a step ahead in their preparation why can't they reproduce that at the TdF?

Well this is a problem of the general view of doping. If you believed what was discussed here, then it would seem that doping is about 99% responsible for a riders performance when in all likelihood it is more like 5-10% or even smaller. Things like form, mentality, freshness, natural recovery(non doping), training(non doping), personal issues, motivation, team strength, team aims, timing, luck etc, etc are all vital compnents of performance. The riders can be doped all they want but if the other components are not there, then they wont be performing to the top of their game either. Sadly, too often performance is only viewed through the lenses of doping. Thus it doesn't make sense a lot of the time.

Doping plays a massive part of a riders preparation. Mentality, freshness, recovery, training, motivation, team strength are part of the doping enhancement. Luck is also integral, but teams cannot prepare for it, all they can do is prepare fully and hope luck favours those prepared. But as Sky found out in 2011 and 2014 tdfs, when your team leader crashes out, so goes your tour win.

You cannot win a GT without doping, hence the importance teams place on it and why it is such a big part of discussions in forums.

It doesn't make sense to discuss winning perfromances while ignoring doping.

 

[hfer07]

Re: Re:

Well, everyone has their favorite cyclist.

Yes, we know that Quintana, Contador, Nibali, and Valverde all dope. But the difference is that they "dope with style" - they don't have nearly as much bogus PR celebrating their "marginal gains", nor are they nearly as obsessed with creating a fake public image. Also, Contador and Valverde have served suspensions so there is the sense that they've paid their dues.

I'm not saying any of this is fair, but that may explain why Chris Froome is viewed more negatively compared to the other guys.
FYI, people probably had an even lower opinion of Bradley Wiggins but he dropped out of the spotlight rather quickly.

The real matter about Froome & SKY is simply their background & attitude towards the sport- the Brits are too greedy & full of ****, selling the same 1999-2005 movie under a different PR and cover box....... At least LA & USPostal allowed other teams to win other races, SKY OTOH -with their new found training methodology BS are winning almost everything....... that's too much for the sport to handle without having serious thoughts on their "cleanness/fair game" if you like....

never won the giro, never won the vuelta, won 1 monument.

2016 Overall Wins by SKY

Volta A Valencia
Herald Sun
Algarve
Paris-Nice
E3 Harelbeke
L-B-L
Trentino
Dauphine
Tour
Artic Race in Norway

*19 Stage wings


BTW If Il Giro & Vuelta were real targets for them - they would bother sending an A team to those GT

 

[42x16ss]

Re: Re:

Well, everyone has their favorite cyclist.

Yes, we know that Quintana, Contador, Nibali, and Valverde all dope. But the difference is that they "dope with style" - they don't have nearly as much bogus PR celebrating their "marginal gains", nor are they nearly as obsessed with creating a fake public image. Also, Contador and Valverde have served suspensions so there is the sense that they've paid their dues.

I'm not saying any of this is fair, but that may explain why Chris Froome is viewed more negatively compared to the other guys.
FYI, people probably had an even lower opinion of Bradley Wiggins but he dropped out of the spotlight rather quickly.

The real matter about Froome & SKY is simply their background & attitude towards the sport- the Brits are too greedy & full of ****, selling the same 1999-2005 movie under a different PR and cover box....... At least LA & USPostal allowed other teams to win other races, SKY OTOH -with their new found training methodology BS are winning almost everything....... that's too much for the sport to handle without having serious thoughts on their "cleanness/fair game" if you like....

never won the giro, never won the vuelta, won 1 monument.

2016 Overall Wins by SKY

Volta A Valencia
Herald Sun
Algarve
Paris-Nice
E3 Harelbeke
L-B-L
Trentino
Dauphine
Tour
Artic Race in Norway

*19 Stage wings


BTW If Il Giro & Vuelta were real targets for them - they would bother sending an A team to those GT

Also, Sky has genuinely targeted the Giro in 2013 with Uran (2nd - after losing time babysitting Wigans) and Landa this year and has targeted the Vuelta almost every year since 2011 with podiums from Wigans and Froome (who should have won in 2011).

 

[PremierAndrew]

Re: Re:

From what I've seen, and freely admit this is just an informed guess, the Tour is rigged. It's less a race than a game to provide the sponsors with cash, And it works, it brings new cycling fans in and a heap of money. In that respect, it's a positive thing.
BUT if you knew the GT was rigged, would you put any effort into it? Quintana & Contador are clearly putting effort into La Vuelta, which remains, in my mind, a race. And so much more exciting.

While i agree the TdF is 'rigged', the rider has to get to Paris. As we saw in 2011, Wiggins crashed out and Froome in 2014 crashed out. So yes Sky are the team who it appears are designated to win, but they have to get their rider to Paris. So other teams prepare, because they are next in line to scoop up the winnings should this happen.

What a load of b0llocks

Quintana Contador etc built their entire season around the Tour. Why would they bother riding the Tour instead of the Giro if it was rigged as you claim? If ASO were selling out to get more viewership and coverage in different areas, well the British market is already established at this point. ASO would gain a lot more from a Colombian winning the Tour at this point than a "Briton".

 

[PremierAndrew]

Also regarding Froome motor doping... why Froome? Why not Kennaugh, a guy who was actually born and raised in the UK, and wouldn't be anywhere near as suspicious as Froome. No way Sky would logically choose to drop a motor in Froome's bike as opposed to other people. Unless of course you're telling me Froome is secretly a top engineer too and able to design his own concealed motorbike.

Either that or every single Sky bike contains a motor

 

[The Hitch]

Re:

Also regarding Froome motor doping... why Froome? Why not Kennaugh, a guy who was actually born and raised in the UK, and wouldn't be anywhere near as suspicious as Froome. No way Sky would logically choose to drop a motor in Froome's bike as opposed to other people. Unless of course you're telling me Froome is secretly a top engineer too and able to design his own concealed motorbike.

Either that or every single Sky bike contains a motor

That is a good point.