Teams & Riders Froome Talk Only

[LaFlorecita]

Re: Re:

I am wondering how exercise-induced asthma is diagnosed? Would it be possible to rig the test to make the doctor think you have EIA?

It would depend how and who did it, but in general, no, it's not really possible.

Do they measure lung capacity? Expiratory or inspiratory volume? Forced expiratory volume in 1 second?
There are just so many professional athletes with EIA and I doubt there are that many corrupt doctors.

 

[Rollthedice]

Re:

I am wondering how exercise-induced asthma is diagnosed? Would it be possible to rig the test to make the doctor think you have EIA?

Edit: I guess what I am asking is is there a way to establish a person has EIA that can be in no way influenced by the person in question.

Froome says he has it since childhood.

 

[King Boonen]

Re: Re:

I am wondering how exercise-induced asthma is diagnosed? Would it be possible to rig the test to make the doctor think you have EIA?

It would depend how and who did it, but in general, no, it's not really possible.

Do they measure lung capacity? Expiratory or inspiratory volume? Forced expiratory volume in 1 second?
There are just so many professional athletes with EIA and I doubt there are that many corrupt doctors.

For EIA there will be an exercise challenge and/or a constriction challenge with something like methacholine along with the usual tests for asthma. If you have a doctor who is willing to talk you through it you might be able to game the readings to give a positive, but it'd be very difficult if not.

Also, there's not much point. Salbutamol is only reported if you trip the test which is very unlikely in the first place through inhalation. As a smooth muscle relaxant there is really no point in non-asthmatics taking it which wuld be the main reason for attempting to trick the test. If it is thermogenic at high doses then the same applies. If you don't trip it then you're fine, if you do you're in trouble even if you can prove a history of asthma as the limit is purposefully high.

 

[ScienceIsCool]

Re: Re:

I am wondering how exercise-induced asthma is diagnosed? Would it be possible to rig the test to make the doctor think you have EIA?

It would depend how and who did it, but in general, no, it's not really possible.

Do they measure lung capacity? Expiratory or inspiratory volume? Forced expiratory volume in 1 second?
There are just so many professional athletes with EIA and I doubt there are that many corrupt doctors.

I don't think there's a rigorous test or differential diagnosis. My experience with asthma has been that the doctor will ask you some questions, take a listen to your chest, and maybe use a peak flow meter to see how bad you're suffering. If Salbutamol clears it up, then it's asthma...

John Swanson

 

[TheSpud]

Re: Re:

I am wondering how exercise-induced asthma is diagnosed? Would it be possible to rig the test to make the doctor think you have EIA?

It would depend how and who did it, but in general, no, it's not really possible.

Do they measure lung capacity? Expiratory or inspiratory volume? Forced expiratory volume in 1 second?
There are just so many professional athletes with EIA and I doubt there are that many corrupt doctors.

I don't think there's a rigorous test or differential diagnosis. My experience with asthma has been that the doctor will ask you some questions, take a listen to your chest, and maybe use a peak flow meter to see how bad you're suffering. If Salbutamol clears it up, then it's asthma...

John Swanson

That's what they did with my lad. Complained of feeling short of breath / chest constriction when exercising vigorously. Gave him a PFM and said to take measurements a number of times over a week or two (IIRC). Went back - measurements were lower than expected, bingo - prescription for Ventolin.

 

[Alpe73]

Re: Re:

As a Froome's fan, I will wait for UCI/WADA verdict.
But if he is finally banned I will place him between his great rivals, i.e. Contador and Valverde, in a Big Trash of Cycling Dopers and erase his palmaries from my memory.

Trouble with that is it's the racing that is remembered not so much the bans. The bans have become like water off a duck's back........barely noticeable. Just one race in the last 20 years the Tour, if it is used as a guide re the winners and podiums it makes for depressing reading and then you have the Menchov's in the Giro and Vuelta, Pantani and Heras, Rumsas, Gotti,Hesjedal and so on. A cast of many and if the most talented riders are doping what are the others doing ? If no one doped at all would a Contador still be winning, I think he would.

Many drug enforcement officials think the war on recreational drugs was lost year's ago, what governments see as a win is playing around the edges of the problem. I think sport is the same, sport is big business like drugs if nothing else and fame and winning are all the matters especially for the people at the top. There is no doubt that what has been found in Russia with doping is also being done in other countries. And if it is this bad now what was it like 40 years ago when drug authorities were so less vigilant ? If drugs in sport worried people that much they would not watch at all. Some people may do that but not many. Unfortunately people have accepted cheating in sport and that is the only way to keep watching.

Bada bing, bada boom.

Last spring, had the pleasure of visiting The Kingdom of the United. Most pleasant and most interesting. On entering a Public House one afternoon, saw a sign that read ... "No Team Colors Allowed." How tribal, I thought. WTF, I thought. Now, I know that depending on the pub, the town, the teams and colors and eras ... that there is a broad variance in the manifestation of this particular, peculiar phenomena.

As Dylan Casey suggested on the Dawg Stages podcast, today, whyTF ... do people care so much about Chris Froome and his apparent indiscretion? Why do people want him buried? Why is the sport of cycling so self-flagellating. FFS, don't say it's because you all want to do your small bit to clean up the sport? That's the same *** you all offered about Armstrong.

 

[Wiggo's Package]

Re:

I am wondering how exercise-induced asthma is diagnosed? Would it be possible to rig the test to make the doctor think you have EIA?

Edit: I guess what I am asking is is there a way to establish a person has EIA that can be in no way influenced by the person in question.

Many years ago those Brits Who Don't Dope adopted a policy of testing all athletes for EIA. Not just in Team Sky. But the Team GB Track Squad. And indeed across all the Olympic sports. On a rolling basis

So the policy isn't so much athletes trying to fool the doctors into giving them asthma meds. But team doctors trying to ensure as many athletes as possible are on asthma meds

See here for more: http://www.cyclingweekly.com/news/latest-news/the-truth-about-cycling-and-asthma-317941

'Does this mean that all of us should get tested? “Yes,” says Dickinson, “when we work with squads of elite athletes, we test everybody — it clears up any doubt.” '

 

[brownbobby]

Re: Re:

As a Froome's fan, I will wait for UCI/WADA verdict.
But if he is finally banned I will place him between his great rivals, i.e. Contador and Valverde, in a Big Trash of Cycling Dopers and erase his palmaries from my memory.

Trouble with that is it's the racing that is remembered not so much the bans. The bans have become like water off a duck's back........barely noticeable. Just one race in the last 20 years the Tour, if it is used as a guide re the winners and podiums it makes for depressing reading and then you have the Menchov's in the Giro and Vuelta, Pantani and Heras, Rumsas, Gotti,Hesjedal and so on. A cast of many and if the most talented riders are doping what are the others doing ? If no one doped at all would a Contador still be winning, I think he would.

Many drug enforcement officials think the war on recreational drugs was lost year's ago, what governments see as a win is playing around the edges of the problem. I think sport is the same, sport is big business like drugs if nothing else and fame and winning are all the matters especially for the people at the top. There is no doubt that what has been found in Russia with doping is also being done in other countries. And if it is this bad now what was it like 40 years ago when drug authorities were so less vigilant ? If drugs in sport worried people that much they would not watch at all. Some people may do that but not many. Unfortunately people have accepted cheating in sport and that is the only way to keep watching.

Bada bing, bada boom.

Last spring, had the pleasure of visiting The Kingdom of the United. Most pleasant and most interesting. On entering a Public House one afternoon, saw a sign that read ... "No Team Colors Allowed." How tribal, I thought. WTF, I thought. Now, I know that depending on the pub, the town, the teams and colors and eras ... that there is a broad variance of this phenomena.

As Dylan Casey suggested on the Dawg Stages podcast, today, whyTF ... do people care so much about Chris Froome and his apparent indiscretion? Why do people want him buried? Why is the sport of cycling so self-flagellating. FFS, don't say it's because you all want to do your small bit to clean up the sport? That's the same *** you all offered about Armstrong.

Ha ha. Excellent, and so true...glad you enjoyed your visit to our little Kingdom of the (not so) United. :lol:

 

[pastronef]

this has beet tweeted by @irishpeloton Cillian Kelly

And now begins a game of chicken played out by Team Sky and the UCI, all the while dragging the entire sport of cycling through the mud.

Chris Froome is still preparing as though he will be taking part in the Giro and the Tour.

Meanwhile his legal minions prepare whatever defence they are preparing to explain his positive test.

Preposterously, WADA have no provisions in their rules for a timescale by which Froome needs to provide such evidence.

Consequently, Froome and his lawyers can take as long as they like.

So Froome is headed for the Giro, unwilling to swerve and concede that a speedy resolution is what’s best for the sport.

And the UCI are sticking to their ‘due process’ unwilling to swerve because thems the rules.

But at some point the UCI will start to mutter amongst themselves “this is bloody dragging on isn’t it?”

While every race that Froome takes part in and/or wins is potentially brought into disrepute by the prospect of having to strip the winner.

Race organisers start putting pressure on the UCI to “get this all wrapped up for ***’s sake, you’re ruining our race”.

Froome’s lawyers are still dragging their heels ‘evidence gathering’.

The UCI begin to cave. Lappartient can’t afford for this one positive test to mire his entire presidency before it has even begun.

So the UCI begin to soften their stance. They blink first.

Froome has played his trump card which is being the biggest name in cycling and not being officially banned.

In doing so he makes the UCI look weak and stupid and Lappartient can’t allow that.

A compromise is reached. A solution is found. The evidence is accepted. Froome is off the hook despite the inexplicable levels of Salbutamol. And we all go back to thinking we’re in the clean era of cycling again.

 

[zalacain]

Re: Re:

That's what they did with my lad. Complained of feeling short of breath / chest constriction when exercising vigorously. Gave him a PFM and said to take measurements a number of times over a week or two (IIRC). Went back - measurements were lower than expected, bingo - prescription for Ventolin.

I went through that whole process too but they prescribed me with a Powerbreathe which has proved to be much more effective than the Ventolin and completely drug free.

 

[brownbobby]

Re: Re:

As a Froome's fan, I will wait for UCI/WADA verdict.
But if he is finally banned I will place him between his great rivals, i.e. Contador and Valverde, in a Big Trash of Cycling Dopers and erase his palmaries from my memory.

Trouble with that is it's the racing that is remembered not so much the bans. The bans have become like water off a duck's back........barely noticeable. Just one race in the last 20 years the Tour, if it is used as a guide re the winners and podiums it makes for depressing reading and then you have the Menchov's in the Giro and Vuelta, Pantani and Heras, Rumsas, Gotti,Hesjedal and so on. A cast of many and if the most talented riders are doping what are the others doing ? If no one doped at all would a Contador still be winning, I think he would.

Many drug enforcement officials think the war on recreational drugs was lost year's ago, what governments see as a win is playing around the edges of the problem. I think sport is the same, sport is big business like drugs if nothing else and fame and winning are all the matters especially for the people at the top. There is no doubt that what has been found in Russia with doping is also being done in other countries. And if it is this bad now what was it like 40 years ago when drug authorities were so less vigilant ? If drugs in sport worried people that much they would not watch at all. Some people may do that but not many. Unfortunately people have accepted cheating in sport and that is the only way to keep watching.

Difficult to argue with any of that unfortunately.

For me at least.

 

[Bolder]

If you are interested, Armstrong has dedicated an entire podcast to the Dawg situation, starting off with “Why the **** would you do the Vuelta after you just won the Tour”

Listened to it.

My take: LA is still unclear on the link between his actions and how the general public views cycling. ("I may have to accept some of the blame.")

Gimme a break.

 

[Robert5091]

2014
http://www.theroar.com.au/2014/06/12/didnt-know-froomes-asthma-now/

“I do have exercise-induced asthma,” Froome later clarified to diffuse the situation.

Sky have since confirmed that the 2013 Tour de France champion has been using an inhaler since he was a teenager ...

So has he always had asthma or is it EIA?

 

[King Boonen]

Re:

2014
http://www.theroar.com.au/2014/06/12/didnt-know-froomes-asthma-now/

“I do have exercise-induced asthma,” Froome later clarified to diffuse the situation.

Sky have since confirmed that the 2013 Tour de France champion has been using an inhaler since he was a teenager ...

So has he always had asthma or is it EIA?

I'm not sure why you are confused? Maybe he has always had EIA?

 

[Der Effe]

I can imagine him exercising as a teenager as well

Edit: Yeah what King Boonen said

 

[Alpe73]

If you are interested, Armstrong has dedicated an entire podcast to the Dawg situation, starting off with “Why the **** would you do the Vuelta after you just won the Tour”

Listened to it.

My take: LA is still unclear on the link between his actions and how the general public views cycling. ("I may have to accept some of the blame.")

Gimme a break.

Nah ... not his actions. Your actions. The over-the-top, drama queen reactions to 1 athlete who cheated. That created the movies, the books, the speaking in tongues ... and you're all still doing it with Froome. Thankfully you represent an old, small cohort. Same old no mojo. Lance? Forward. He's got the hits, the downloads , the invitations to prove it. Why? Go figure it out.

 

[topcat]

Re: Re:

2014
http://www.theroar.com.au/2014/06/12/didnt-know-froomes-asthma-now/
Froome probably has never had asthma and never has had EIA. Maybe he coughs from the salbutomol. He has had unfair advantages over all other cyclists and should be banned.

“I do have exercise-induced asthma,” Froome later clarified to diffuse the situation.

Sky have since confirmed that the 2013 Tour de France champion has been using an inhaler since he was a teenager ...

So has he always had asthma or is it EIA?

I'm not sure why you are confused? Maybe he has always had EIA?

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re: Re:

I am wondering how exercise-induced asthma is diagnosed? Would it be possible to rig the test to make the doctor think you have EIA?

It would depend how and who did it, but in general, no, it's not really possible.

Do they measure lung capacity? Expiratory or inspiratory volume? Forced expiratory volume in 1 second?
There are just so many professional athletes with EIA and I doubt there are that many corrupt doctors.

I don't think there's a rigorous test or differential diagnosis. My experience with asthma has been that the doctor will ask you some questions, take a listen to your chest, and maybe use a peak flow meter to see how bad you're suffering. If Salbutamol clears it up, then it's asthma...

John Swanson

Does Salbutamol not have any effect in non-asthmatics - regardless of the dose? What about inhalation vs tablet form vs injections?

 

[samhocking]

I thought you had to take Salbutomol with another two substances to begin seeing performance benefits in non-asthmatics within a race? On its own, it would be an out-of-competition poor mans fat moving muscle building anabolic.

 

[topcat]

I thought you had to take Salbutomol with another two substances to begin seeing performance benefits in non-asthmatics within a race? On its own, it would be an out-of-competition poor mans fat moving muscle building anabolic.

what two substances?

 

[The Hitch]

Re: Re:

As a Froome's fan, I will wait for UCI/WADA verdict.
But if he is finally banned I will place him between his great rivals, i.e. Contador and Valverde, in a Big Trash of Cycling Dopers and erase his palmaries from my memory.

Trouble with that is it's the racing that is remembered not so much the bans. The bans have become like water off a duck's back........barely noticeable. Just one race in the last 20 years the Tour, if it is used as a guide re the winners and podiums it makes for depressing reading and then you have the Menchov's in the Giro and Vuelta, Pantani and Heras, Rumsas, Gotti,Hesjedal and so on. A cast of many and if the most talented riders are doping what are the others doing ? If no one doped at all would a Contador still be winning, I think he would.

Many drug enforcement officials think the war on recreational drugs was lost year's ago, what governments see as a win is playing around the edges of the problem. I think sport is the same, sport is big business like drugs if nothing else and fame and winning are all the matters especially for the people at the top. There is no doubt that what has been found in Russia with doping is also being done in other countries. And if it is this bad now what was it like 40 years ago when drug authorities were so less vigilant ? If drugs in sport worried people that much they would not watch at all. Some people may do that but not many. Unfortunately people have accepted cheating in sport and that is the only way to keep watching.

Bada bing, bada boom.

Last spring, had the pleasure of visiting The Kingdom of the United. Most pleasant and most interesting. On entering a Public House one afternoon, saw a sign that read ... "No Team Colors Allowed." How tribal, I thought. WTF, I thought. Now, I know that depending on the pub, the town, the teams and colors and eras ... that there is a broad variance in the manifestation of this particular, peculiar phenomena.

As Dylan Casey suggested on the Dawg Stages podcast, today, whyTF ... do people care so much about Chris Froome and his apparent indiscretion? Why do people want him buried? Why is the sport of cycling so self-flagellating. FFS, don't say it's because you all want to do your small bit to clean up the sport? That's the same *** you all offered about Armstrong.

I'll answer your question. First I'll ask my own one.

Why do you pretend to come from outside the United Kingdom and to not be British?

To answer your question, very simply put I don't like Chris Froome and I don't like Team Sky. I also didn't like Armstrong and Brunyeel. Because I think they are liars and I don't like liars. I didn't like them taking credit for what other people had done.
So I wanted him to get caught.

And now he has and I am happy.

But go ahead. Put false motivations on us to make yourself feel superior, all you want.

 

[veganrob]

Re: Re:

I am wondering how exercise-induced asthma is diagnosed? Would it be possible to rig the test to make the doctor think you have EIA?

It would depend how and who did it, but in general, no, it's not really possible.

Do they measure lung capacity? Expiratory or inspiratory volume? Forced expiratory volume in 1 second?
There are just so many professional athletes with EIA and I doubt there are that many corrupt doctors.

I don't think there's a rigorous test or differential diagnosis. My experience with asthma has been that the doctor will ask you some questions, take a listen to your chest, and maybe use a peak flow meter to see how bad you're suffering. If Salbutamol clears it up, then it's asthma...
In my case, I was misdiagnosed with EIA years ago. Underwent about four hours of testing and they still got it wrong. They gave me Salbutamol but I couldn't do it. Heart palpitations on one puff. I just don't see how anyone can do several puffs, even if they truly do have asthma.
John Swanson

 

[samhocking]

I thought you had to take Salbutomol with another two substances to begin seeing performance benefits in non-asthmatics within a race? On its own, it would be an out-of-competition poor mans fat moving muscle building anabolic.

what two substances?

I can't remember where I read it. The study i'm thinking of was a swimming study iirc. Like nearly all other double-blind studies, they couldn't find any ergoneric effects of salbutomol, but did with the subjects taking two other asthma drugs alongside it iirc.

One of the most recent studies is probably Michael Koehle's 48 cyclists study. 14 tested as having EIA in the lab. Lung function did improve in both the asthma and non-asthma group, but that didn't translate into any improvements in time-trial performances whatsoever. His conclusion was the diffusion of oxygen from the lungs into the blood is the limiting performance factor in endurance athletes, not getting more air into the lungs and improving lung function.

 

[gillan1969]

I thought you had to take Salbutomol with another two substances to begin seeing performance benefits in non-asthmatics within a race? On its own, it would be an out-of-competition poor mans fat moving muscle building anabolic.

what two substances?

I can't remember where I read it. The study i'm thinking of was a swimming study iirc. Like nearly all other double-blind studies, they couldn't find any ergoneric effects of salbutomol, but did with the subjects taking two other asthma drugs alongside it iirc.

One of the most recent studies is probably Michael Koehle's 48 cyclists study. 14 tested as having EIA in the lab. Lung function did improve in both the asthma and non-asthma group, but that didn't translate into any improvements in time-trial performances whatsoever. His conclusion was the diffusion of oxygen from the lungs into the blood is the limiting performance factor in endurance athletes, not getting more air into the lungs and improving lung function.

used to hang out with a bodybuilder in late 80s just after i finished racing...there was a quantum difference in the diets and knowledge of nutrution between the bodybuilders who seemed to know all about long chain amino acids and the cyclist who were still eating frozen pizzas...despite the cyclist I knew performing at a far higher level than said bodybuilders...
salbutomol is used by these guys for a reason and will be done so in conjunction with other substances - which Cound through the mother will know all about...
it perhaps not surprising there's not lab/academic studies on this but the locker rooms or hardcore gyms and the bars of Flanders will be where you get the low down on the effectiveness of PEDS...rather, than say, the rarefied atmosphere of the Scottish Centre of respiratory illness

 

[topcat]

I thought you had to take Salbutomol with another two substances to begin seeing performance benefits in non-asthmatics within a race? On its own, it would be an out-of-competition poor mans fat moving muscle
building anabolic.

salbutomol definitely improves sprinting and acceleration which Froome excels at.
anyway, he broke the rules, has been exposed.the last 5 years have been a farce
what two substances?

I can't remember where I read it. The study i'm thinking of was a swimming study iirc. Like nearly all other double-blind studies, they couldn't find any ergoneric effects of salbutomol, but did with the subjects taking two other asthma drugs alongside it iirc.

One of the most recent studies is probably Michael Koehle's 48 cyclists study. 14 tested as having EIA in the lab. Lung function did improve in both the asthma and non-asthma group, but that didn't translate into any improvements in time-trial performances whatsoever. His conclusion was the diffusion of oxygen from the lungs into the blood is the limiting performance factor in endurance athletes, not getting more air into the lungs and improving lung function.