RobbieCanuck said:To show you are not a one horse pony Lance! What a loser!
How many horses can a pony be?
LaFlorecita said:I am wondering how exercise-induced asthma is diagnosed? Would it be possible to rig the test to make the doctor think you have EIA?
There are substances that you can take that will basically trigger an asthmatic-type response. That seems like a pretty extreme thing to do, but then these are people who dope freely, then look at the press and angrily say they’re innocent, so who knows? Or as John suggests, depending on the doctor, maybe you don’t even have to do that much.
King Boonen said:Robert5091 said:So has he always had asthma or is it EIA?
I'm not sure why you are confused? Maybe he has always had EIA?
I think it’s a valid question. I thought EIA was the result of long hours of training. You might be genetically predisposed to the condition, but it wouldn’t manifest itself unless/until you lived the exercise-intense life of the pro.
“It basically means they have an asthma response to doing high-intensity exercise,” Dickinson said. “It’s not necessarily the exercise that’s the problem, but rather the volume of air that they breathe and the amount of time that they stay at that level.”
Dickinson says 70% of GB’s swimmers have EIA. I swam competitively when I was younger, and I don’t recall a single member of my team who had asthma. Now you could argue that we didn’t practice long enough hours, but that’s my point, you wouldn’t expect teen-agers to develop EIA, at least not until recently, when even pre-teens like Phelps spent most of their lives in the pool. If Froome’s asthma is a result of heavy exercise, he wouldn’t have manifested it until he was doing some serious racing. He turned pro at age 22, but I’m not sure how much racing he was doing as an amateur in his teens. Maybe someone here knows.
You also sense that somewhere David Walsh is smarting. The man who brought down Lance Armstrong has been embedded with Sky for the previous year or so and has given us what he and his publishers claim to be the “definitive story” of both Sky (Inside Team Sky) and, now, Froome.
But not once has the ghostwriter of The Climb mentioned Froome’s asthma. And that either puts a beloved patriot in Walsh’s journalistic armour, or makes it look as if both Sky and Froome were pretty keen on keeping this one under wraps.
I guess the charitable explanation is that Froome just didn’t want people to know. But I’ll wait till actual evidence is produced before I buy the asthma-since-childhood story. As I’ve said before, it should be pretty easy to produce the TUE that was necessary before 2010.
And by the way, KB, this story is an example illustrating that Froome’s asthma was a big deal even in 2014, and that obtaining proof of his history probably would have been well rewarded.
LaFlorecita said:Does Salbutamol not have any effect in non-asthmatics - regardless of the dose? What about inhalation vs tablet form vs injections?
There seems to be no evidence of PE effects via inhalation, IOW, it doesn’t seem to improve non-asthmatics by acting in the lungs. Orally or via injection, which allows it to get to other parts of the body, many studies indicate it can increase muscle strength and anaerobic power, though there are a lot of negative studies, so the question is somewhat unsettled. The studies that do show effects indicate it's more of a sprinter’s drug, hence Petacchi.
But as a b2-agonist, salbutamol should have many other, potentially PE effects, e.g., vaso-dilation, increasing blood flow, particularly to the heart and the extremities, and promoting muscle growth. There is some research suggesting weight loss, like clenbuterol, with which it has some structural resemblance, and indeed, they interact with the same class of receptors. In principle, salbutamol should have the same effects as clenbuterol. It doesn’t, exactly, for several reasons, one being that it has a much shorter half-life.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2439523/#bib104
samhocking said:I can't remember where I read it. The study i'm thinking of was a swimming study iirc. Like nearly all other double-blind studies, they couldn't find any ergoneric effects of salbutomol, but did with the subjects taking two other asthma drugs alongside it iirc.
Maybe this?
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23834392
One of the most recent studies is probably Michael Koehle's 48 cyclists study. 14 tested as having EIA in the lab. Lung function did improve in both the asthma and non-asthma group, but that didn't translate into any improvements in time-trial performances whatsoever. His conclusion was the diffusion of oxygen from the lungs into the blood is the limiting performance factor in endurance athletes, not getting more air into the lungs and improving lung function.
Thanks for that. I’ve been puzzled why inhaled salbutamol has little or no effect in non-asthmatics.
gillan1969 said:it perhaps not surprising there's not lab/academic studies on this but the locker rooms or hardcore gyms and the bars of Flanders will be where you get the low down on the effectiveness of PEDS...rather, than say, the rarefied atmosphere of the Scottish Centre of respiratory illness
Yes, these guys do their homework, and of course have the advantage of actually doing experiments on themselves. They follow the literature, but test everything. I'm impressed that don't simply seek to get certain effects from drugs, but when they do, make an effort to explain why it works.