Teams & Riders Froome Talk Only

[thehog]

Ulissi had 1920ng/ml (got 9 months) Froome had 2000. he gets 9-12 months.

My expectation is that ball park.
Back dated to the date of the sample test.

Loss of Vuelta of course

Which makes you wonder, why he doesn’t take provisional suspension now and claim “time served” in the off season so he can smash up the Giro by May.

 

[TheSpud]

Re:

I just remember there were a bunch of posters who played the - "Froome is innocent, y'all are losers" card while pretending to be foreigners - martinvickers and Joachim being 2 notable examples.

So everytime someone comes in here playing that card while going out of their way to make clear "btw im not english i just happen to love froome for no reason" I let them know that I don't buy it

Not me - always been open that I'm British. Of course I now have a quantity of egg on my face (hands up to that) and haven't posted on here for some while - just not really been in to any sport for sometime and have had interests elsewhere. But I'm back and posting : I,m intrigued by this whole situation. We will of course never (or at least not for a very long time) know the truth unless someone does a Tyler or Floyd.

 

[Angliru]

Ulissi had 1920ng/ml (got 9 months) Froome had 2000. he gets 9-12 months.

My expectation is that ball park.
Back dated to the date of the sample test.

Loss of Vuelta of course

Which makes you wonder, why he doesn’t take provisional suspension now and claim “time served” in the off season so he can smash up the Giro by May.

I've always wondered why is the offseason figured in the suspension time when it really doesn't penalize the offender at all during those months unless lack of access to team trainers/facilities/doctors etc... are part of the penalty and even then it isn't really that much of a hardship during that period. Seems it should cover periods when the official race calendar begins and ends.

 

[TheSpud]

i think this is in relation to the weight loss being attributed less to sky and more to the bodybuilding knowledge of Michelle's mum through Michelle...my money's on the combo of their nutrition and lienders's skills being behind the transformation we saw in 2011...

I've missed this - is a there a quick link to a story (or thread on here)?

 

[brownbobby]

Ulissi had 1920ng/ml (got 9 months) Froome had 2000. he gets 9-12 months.

My expectation is that ball park.
Back dated to the date of the sample test.

Loss of Vuelta of course

Which makes you wonder, why he doesn’t take provisional suspension now and claim “time served” in the off season so he can smash up the Giro by May.

Because he will want to be in the early season races preparing for the Giro until someone officially tells him he can't by suspending him.
Nothing to be gained from taking a provisional suspension, the official suspension will start from the day of the AAF regardless.
If the case is dragged out for several more months it is highly likely he won't miss any race time at all, just the possibility of losing any results from the period of suspension.

 

[Benotti69]

Ulissi had 1920ng/ml (got 9 months) Froome had 2000. he gets 9-12 months.

My expectation is that ball park.
Back dated to the date of the sample test.

Loss of Vuelta of course

Which makes you wonder, why he doesn’t take provisional suspension now and claim “time served” in the off season so he can smash up the Giro by May.

Because he will want to be in the early season races preparing for the Giro until someone officially tells him he can't by suspending him.
Nothing to be gained from taking a provisional suspension, the official suspension will start from the day of the AAF regardless.
If the case is dragged out for several more months it is highly likely he won't miss any race time at all, just the possibility of losing any results from the period of suspension.

More money to be made dragging it out as long as possible and likely hood of keeping his gains.

 

[42x16ss]

Ulissi had 1920ng/ml (got 9 months) Froome had 2000. he gets 9-12 months.

My expectation is that ball park.
Back dated to the date of the sample test.

Loss of Vuelta of course

Which makes you wonder, why he doesn’t take provisional suspension now and claim “time served” in the off season so he can smash up the Giro by May.

Because he will want to be in the early season races preparing for the Giro until someone officially tells him he can't by suspending him.
Nothing to be gained from taking a provisional suspension, the official suspension will start from the day of the AAF regardless.
If the case is dragged out for several more months it is highly likely he won't miss any race time at all, just the possibility of losing any results from the period of suspension.

More money to be made dragging it out as long as possible and likely hood of keeping his gains.

Froome will only volunteer for a provisional suspension if it lets him start the Tour, otherwise forget it.

 

[brownbobby]

i think this is in relation to the weight loss being attributed less to sky and more to the bodybuilding knowledge of Michelle's mum through Michelle...my money's on the combo of their nutrition and lienders's skills being behind the transformation we saw in 2011...[/quote]

I'm with you on the nutrition/weight loss theory

The more I read about this the more I start to think that Sky really have just been old school doping.

Not old school blood doping, not even old school cycling doping. I never thought that it was as simple as that, watching videos of how they used to chase each other up mountains was crazy, it just looked different, nothing like the way Sky just sit at tempo, albeit a very high tempo on the mountain stages in recent times.

But I went the other way, thinking new cutting edge stuff, drugs we hadn't even heard of yet..... but I'm starting to think I was looking in completely the wrong direction.

The stuff the guy in the Wordpress article says about power to weight, losing weight but building and maintaining functional muscle. Of course we always knew that, but could it really be that simple? Put it all together with the 'Sky way'. The super skinny look within months of joining the team, but still able to produce those watts, long spells at tempo which destroy the peloton. Not just the main man, but the whole team. The watts don't go up, the weight just comes down. Same effect. If a cyclist, already lean, can lose say 5kg more doping than he ever could naturally, without losing power then that's every bit as transformational as EPO. It explains why we're seeing same speeds up mountains, without it looking as crazy as it did when Lance was chasing Pantani et al.

All this time searching for the new cutting edge programme, maybe it's just about good old fashioned physique enhancement, straight out of the weights room. I think someone said on here earlier...if you want to know how to lose fat and build muscle, ask a bodybuilder. They've got this down to a fine art.

It all seems to fit. Good old salbutamol, I'm guessing they had the protocols for masking this from the testers down to a tee. Until the one day somebody did something a little bit different.....

 

[42x16ss]

Eh the guy doesnt wish that to froome but merely sees it as one of several things that could happen later on.
I m always baffled at froome fans reading skills

The point stands, so they have to obfuscate. BTW, I have to agree with The Hitch - I’ve long suspected Alpe73 (and Pastronef) are as British as one gets.

 

[42x16ss]

I'm with you on the nutrition/weight loss theory

The more I read about this the more I start to think that Sky really have just been old school doping.

Not old school blood doping, not even old school cycling doping. I never thought that it was as simple as that, watching videos of how they used to chase each other up mountains was crazy, it just looked different, nothing like the way Sky just sit at tempo, albeit a very high tempo on the mountain stages in recent times.

But I went the other way, thinking new cutting edge stuff, drugs we hadn't even heard of yet..... but I'm starting to think I was looking in completely the wrong direction.

The stuff the guy in the Wordpress article says about power to weight, losing weight but building and maintaining functional muscle. Of course we always knew that, but could it really be that simple? Put it all together with the 'Sky way'. The super skinny look within months of joining the team, but still able to produce those watts, long spells at tempo which destroy the peloton. Not just the main man, but the whole team. The watts don't go up, the weight just comes down. Same effect. If a cyclist, already lean, can lose say 5kg more doping than he ever could naturally, without losing power then that's every bit as transformational as EPO. It explains why we're seeing same speeds up mountains, without it looking as crazy as it did when Lance was chasing Pantani et al.

All this time searching for the new cutting edge programme, maybe it's just about good old fashioned physique enhancement, straight out of the weights room. I think someone said on here earlier...if you want to know how to lose fat and build muscle, ask a bodybuilder. They've got this down to a fine art.

It all seems to fit. Good old salbutamol, I'm guessing they had the protocols for masking this from the testers down to a tee. Until the one day somebody did something a little bit different.....

There has to be credit to this. If a rider drops an extra 3-5kg, adds corticosteroids etc, then only micro doses EPO the power to weight would still go through the roof. The lighter riders would also make motors more effective as well.

They are still using EPO/transfusions, just not to previous levels but the reduced body mass would negate the need.

 

[TheSpud]

i think this is in relation to the weight loss being attributed less to sky and more to the bodybuilding knowledge of Michelle's mum through Michelle...my money's on the combo of their nutrition and lienders's skills being behind the transformation we saw in 2011...

I'm with you on the nutrition/weight loss theory

The more I read about this the more I start to think that Sky really have just been old school doping.

Not old school blood doping, not even old school cycling doping. I never thought that it was as simple as that, watching videos of how they used to chase each other up mountains was crazy, it just looked different, nothing like the way Sky just sit at tempo, albeit a very high tempo on the mountain stages in recent times.

But I went the other way, thinking new cutting edge stuff, drugs we hadn't even heard of yet..... but I'm starting to think I was looking in completely the wrong direction.

The stuff the guy in the Wordpress article says about power to weight, losing weight but building and maintaining functional muscle. Of course we always knew that, but could it really be that simple? Put it all together with the 'Sky way'. The super skinny look within months of joining the team, but still able to produce those watts, long spells at tempo which destroy the peloton. Not just the main man, but the whole team. The watts don't go up, the weight just comes down. Same effect. If a cyclist, already lean, can lose say 5kg more doping than he ever could naturally, without losing power then that's every bit as transformational as EPO. It explains why we're seeing same speeds up mountains, without it looking as crazy as it did when Lance was chasing Pantani et al.

All this time searching for the new cutting edge programme, maybe it's just about good old fashioned physique enhancement, straight out of the weights room. I think someone said on here earlier...if you want to know how to lose fat and build muscle, ask a bodybuilder. They've got this down to a fine art.

It all seems to fit. Good old salbutamol, I'm guessing they had the protocols for masking this from the testers down to a tee. Until the one day somebody did something a little bit different.....

That would be my take on it - old school but really pushing the boundaries:

#1 OOC cortisone obviously (which we know / suspect from previous reports)
#2 And now we know - Salbutamol (ie not Clen).
Both used to kill the weight/fat whilst maintaining power.

Probably also Meldonium & Xenon in the past. Also blood pressure and thyroid drugs - although not sure if TUE needed or there are limits.

Combine those with other grey areas we haven't explored and a fanatical approach to training, etc. and maybe maybe that's it?

 

[Benotti69]

Froome will only volunteer for a provisional suspension if it lets him start the Tour, otherwise forget it.

Froome and his people are no doubt trying to push(negotiate) for that, even possibly a 6 month suspension so he can start the Giro.

 

[Benotti69]

i think this is in relation to the weight loss being attributed less to sky and more to the bodybuilding knowledge of Michelle's mum through Michelle...my money's on the combo of their nutrition and lienders's skills being behind the transformation we saw in 2011...

I'm with you on the nutrition/weight loss theory

The more I read about this the more I start to think that Sky really have just been old school doping.

Not old school blood doping, not even old school cycling doping. I never thought that it was as simple as that, watching videos of how they used to chase each other up mountains was crazy, it just looked different, nothing like the way Sky just sit at tempo, albeit a very high tempo on the mountain stages in recent times.

But I went the other way, thinking new cutting edge stuff, drugs we hadn't even heard of yet..... but I'm starting to think I was looking in completely the wrong direction.

The stuff the guy in the Wordpress article says about power to weight, losing weight but building and maintaining functional muscle. Of course we always knew that, but could it really be that simple? Put it all together with the 'Sky way'. The super skinny look within months of joining the team, but still able to produce those watts, long spells at tempo which destroy the peloton. Not just the main man, but the whole team. The watts don't go up, the weight just comes down. Same effect. If a cyclist, already lean, can lose say 5kg more doping than he ever could naturally, without losing power then that's every bit as transformational as EPO. It explains why we're seeing same speeds up mountains, without it looking as crazy as it did when Lance was chasing Pantani et al.

All this time searching for the new cutting edge programme, maybe it's just about good old fashioned physique enhancement, straight out of the weights room. I think someone said on here earlier...if you want to know how to lose fat and build muscle, ask a bodybuilder. They've got this down to a fine art.

It all seems to fit. Good old salbutamol, I'm guessing they had the protocols for masking this from the testers down to a tee. Until the one day somebody did something a little bit different.....

That would be my take on it - old school but really pushing the boundaries:

#1 OOC cortisone obviously (which we know / suspect from previous reports)
#2 And now we know - Salbutamol (ie not Clen).
Both used to kill the weight/fat whilst maintaining power.

Probably also Meldonium & Xenon in the past. Also blood pressure and thyroid drugs - although not sure if TUE needed or there are limits.

Combine those with other grey areas we haven't explored and a fanatical approach to training, etc. and maybe maybe that's it?

Dont forget motors.

 

[pastronef]

Eh the guy doesnt wish that to froome but merely sees it as one of several things that could happen later on.
I m always baffled at froome fans reading skills

The point stands, so they have to obfuscate. BTW, I have to agree with The Hitch - I’ve long suspected Alpe73 (and Pastronef) are as British as one gets.

I´m 100% Italian

 

[pastronef]

Note the word 'possibly'.

'possibilmente'.

When people cheat in life it tends to be in lots of parts of their life.

he clinic gives, the clinic takes
the clinic judges your actions outside cycling too.
hail the clinic.

 

[poupou]

Froome will only volunteer for a provisional suspension if it lets him start the Tour, otherwise forget it.

Froome and his people are no doubt trying to push(negotiate) for that, even possibly a 6 month suspension so he can start the Giro.

If Froome does not want to play nicely and fairly, maybe UCI can retest his urine samples for salbutamol taken oraly!

 

[Benotti69]

Eh the guy doesnt wish that to froome but merely sees it as one of several things that could happen later on.
I m always baffled at froome fans reading skills

The point stands, so they have to obfuscate. BTW, I have to agree with The Hitch - I’ve long suspected Alpe73 (and Pastronef) are as British as one gets.

I´m 100% Italian

Bellisimo

 

[pastronef]

I´m 100% Italian

Bellissimo

 

[Clyde Puffer]

i think this is in relation to the weight loss being attributed less to sky and more to the bodybuilding knowledge of Michelle's mum through Michelle...my money's on the combo of their nutrition and lienders's skills being behind the transformation we saw in 2011...

I'm with you on the nutrition/weight loss theory

The more I read about this the more I start to think that Sky really have just been old school doping.

Not old school blood doping, not even old school cycling doping. I never thought that it was as simple as that, watching videos of how they used to chase each other up mountains was crazy, it just looked different, nothing like the way Sky just sit at tempo, albeit a very high tempo on the mountain stages in recent times.

But I went the other way, thinking new cutting edge stuff, drugs we hadn't even heard of yet..... but I'm starting to think I was looking in completely the wrong direction.

The stuff the guy in the Wordpress article says about power to weight, losing weight but building and maintaining functional muscle. Of course we always knew that, but could it really be that simple? Put it all together with the 'Sky way'. The super skinny look within months of joining the team, but still able to produce those watts, long spells at tempo which destroy the peloton. Not just the main man, but the whole team. The watts don't go up, the weight just comes down. Same effect. If a cyclist, already lean, can lose say 5kg more doping than he ever could naturally, without losing power then that's every bit as transformational as EPO. It explains why we're seeing same speeds up mountains, without it looking as crazy as it did when Lance was chasing Pantani et al.

All this time searching for the new cutting edge programme, maybe it's just about good old fashioned physique enhancement, straight out of the weights room. I think someone said on here earlier...if you want to know how to lose fat and build muscle, ask a bodybuilder. They've got this down to a fine art.

It all seems to fit. Good old salbutamol, I'm guessing they had the protocols for masking this from the testers down to a tee. Until the one day somebody did something a little bit different.....

That would be my take on it - old school but really pushing the boundaries:

#1 OOC cortisone obviously (which we know / suspect from previous reports)
#2 And now we know - Salbutamol (ie not Clen).
Both used to kill the weight/fat whilst maintaining power.

Probably also Meldonium & Xenon in the past. Also blood pressure and thyroid drugs - although not sure if TUE needed or there are limits.

Combine those with other grey areas we haven't explored and a fanatical approach to training, etc. and maybe maybe that's it?

You forgot to mention the use of laxatives, I think Tom Dumoulin recommended them to CF after the Giro last year

 

[Bot. Sky_Bot]

First of all, I'm not from Great Britain, it's so obvious from my avatar and because of my difficulties to clarify my minds in English :sad: .
Second, it's very poor to read here so many posts concerning the nationality of the posters.. . It should be more considered by Mods.
Finally,
Well, I was too naive. I did believe that CF is clean. I registered as a member a few months ago, but has followed The Forum for years, and till the previous week I have never visited The Clinic!
Why? Let say because of all the hate concerning CF and Sky on this forum. And he was beatable in 2017 (so poor contenders in TdF and Vuelta), he was beaten in Vuelta'16, probably would be beaten by Nibali'14. So strong domestiques, nothing was so obvious.
So, I was too naive. In 99 % CF will not be able to explain his level of salbutamol. All the peleton (and Sky) is waiting for the decision (how long and from what time he will be banned). But I must admit, let say in 99% he is a doper.
Lech Piasecki (Polish PRR) said that in his era (80'-90') there was no asthmatic. Now, in his opinion - more than a half of peloton. Happily, Michał Kwiatkowski is not.
As was said here before (@movingtarget):
'Many drug enforcement officials think the war on recreational drugs was lost year's ago, what governments see as a win is playing around the edges of the problem. I think sport is the same, sport is big business like drugs if nothing else and fame and winning are all the matters especially for the people at the top."
and
"Unfortunately people have accepted cheating in sport and that is the only way to keep watching."
If that's true, is there any point to argue about who is the best, who will win..

 

[mrhender]

Well, humans delude themselves every day in some fashion.

I dont mind if anyone wants to trust sky/froome.

Issue is, only if you go to a seasoned cycling doping forum, and profess that sky invented the deep plate -insinuating all that was needed to save the sport was marginal gains and british willpower.

 

[samhocking]

i think this is in relation to the weight loss being attributed less to sky and more to the bodybuilding knowledge of Michelle's mum through Michelle...my money's on the combo of their nutrition and lienders's skills being behind the transformation we saw in 2011...

I'm with you on the nutrition/weight loss theory

The more I read about this the more I start to think that Sky really have just been old school doping.

Not old school blood doping, not even old school cycling doping. I never thought that it was as simple as that, watching videos of how they used to chase each other up mountains was crazy, it just looked different, nothing like the way Sky just sit at tempo, albeit a very high tempo on the mountain stages in recent times.

But I went the other way, thinking new cutting edge stuff, drugs we hadn't even heard of yet..... but I'm starting to think I was looking in completely the wrong direction.

The stuff the guy in the Wordpress article says about power to weight, losing weight but building and maintaining functional muscle. Of course we always knew that, but could it really be that simple? Put it all together with the 'Sky way'. The super skinny look within months of joining the team, but still able to produce those watts, long spells at tempo which destroy the peloton. Not just the main man, but the whole team. The watts don't go up, the weight just comes down. Same effect. If a cyclist, already lean, can lose say 5kg more doping than he ever could naturally, without losing power then that's every bit as transformational as EPO. It explains why we're seeing same speeds up mountains, without it looking as crazy as it did when Lance was chasing Pantani et al.

All this time searching for the new cutting edge programme, maybe it's just about good old fashioned physique enhancement, straight out of the weights room. I think someone said on here earlier...if you want to know how to lose fat and build muscle, ask a bodybuilder. They've got this down to a fine art.

It all seems to fit. Good old salbutamol, I'm guessing they had the protocols for masking this from the testers down to a tee. Until the one day somebody did something a little bit different.....

I still think something doesn't add up. Why the leaked A & B result before a final decision by the UCI. This very rarely happens with B2 cases now. Certainly much less in last 5 years anyway. We rarely hear the result before a decision now for most riders? Also the rapid half life of Salbutomol means Froome was racing close to the levels posing a serious risk to health and cardiac arrest at the start of the stage assuming he was chaperoned to anti-doping after the stage for doping control. Perhaps there's a way to take 3-4000 with something else without risk of cardiac arrest, but i've not read that anywhere. 4-5 puffs on my wifes salbutomol is like you just drank 10 coffees in row. There's no way I would be riding a bike, my heart was already jittery and that's only at a 500 level.

 

[Robert5091]

MP Damian Collins from DCMS has his say -
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/20...-clean-athletes-should-made-criminal-offence/

Where an athlete is so ill because of, say, severe asthma that it requires them to take a powerful drug with potential performance-enhancing properties, they shouldn’t be allowed to compete while that drug is active in their system.

 

[samhocking]

Thing is, putting any performance enhancement reasons for treatment for asthma to one side, is that taking corticosteroids for a legitimate asthma sufferer, is always purely a preventative one. You don't take it when you are suffering and ill with asthma side effects. You take it to stop you getting ill and having to suffer with it in the first place. For Collins to say that, he also then has to accept that any legitimate asthma sufferer will probably not be wise to choose sport as a career, even if they are very talented, because although they can win when not suffering, they cannot be legally treated when suffering. That is a huge human rights and freedom to work can of worms he's opening up if you ask me. Sometimes you just got to accept things can't be perfect.

 

[thehog]

Re:

Thing is, putting any performance enhancement reasons for treatment for asthma to one side, is that taking corticosteroids for a legitimate asthma sufferer, is always purely a preventative one. You don't take it when you are suffering and ill with asthma side effects. You take it to stop you getting ill and having to suffer with it in the first place. For Collins to say that, he also then has to accept that any legitimate asthma sufferer will probably not be wise to choose sport as a career, even if they are very talented, because although they can win when not suffering, they cannot be legally treated when suffering. That is a huge human rights and freedom to work can of worms he's opening up if you ask me. Sometimes you just got to accept things can't be perfect.

Probably the most inane post on the topic. Froome already takes preventive medicine which does not contain Salbutamol. On top of that, he supposedly took 32 puffs on his reactive inhaler. Human Rights issue?!!! Strike me down.