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Re: Re:
I expect to see the flag waved by Prudhomme and there will be a a simultaneous puff of 200 Ventolin inhalers. Every feed bag will have one, riders will be throwing them to confused looking fans.
yaco said:
I expect to see the flag waved by Prudhomme and there will be a a simultaneous puff of 200 Ventolin inhalers. Every feed bag will have one, riders will be throwing them to confused looking fans.
Re:
"It was an October day during some filming in public that Geraint Thomas first got a personal sense of the fall-out from the Team Sky controversy. “A random guy walked past and he was clearly a bit drunk and he started shouting, ‘Are you Sky?’ and then he says, ‘Have you got asthma?’”
Lo squalo di messina said:
"It was an October day during some filming in public that Geraint Thomas first got a personal sense of the fall-out from the Team Sky controversy. “A random guy walked past and he was clearly a bit drunk and he started shouting, ‘Are you Sky?’ and then he says, ‘Have you got asthma?’”
Re:
Already been done. Gotta come up with something creative like VO2max enhancing eczema. Or muscle building dandruff. Or maybe a rare type of cough that maximizes oxygen delivery.
John Swanson
Lo squalo di messina said:
Already been done. Gotta come up with something creative like VO2max enhancing eczema. Or muscle building dandruff. Or maybe a rare type of cough that maximizes oxygen delivery.
John Swanson
Re: Re:
No, I hope they will be there.
And missing the opportunity of watching G fail miserably!S2Sturges said:
No, I hope they will be there.
Re:
brilliant...something to do with red blood cells...I await the chronic medical condition and its resultant 'treatment'...with GT winning effects
Beech Mtn said:
brilliant...something to do with red blood cells...I await the chronic medical condition and its resultant 'treatment'...with GT winning effects
Re: Re:
Dandruff and coughs are contagious.
The whole team will catch it if they aren't careful.
ScienceIsCool said:
Dandruff and coughs are contagious.
The whole team will catch it if they aren't careful.
The "spleenless" Gee thread is at
http://forum.cyclingnews.com/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=29844&hilit=thomas+sky+geraint+thomas&start=860 for those wishing to denigrate the great Welsh (clean) hope!
http://forum.cyclingnews.com/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=29844&hilit=thomas+sky+geraint+thomas&start=860 for those wishing to denigrate the great Welsh (clean) hope!
Re:
“Give me a break,” LeMond said. “That is the most ridiculous excuse I have ever heard. If this is what he claims, then it’s simple, he broke the rules and should be punished accordingly.
“You have to look at Froome’s AAF in context of everything around Team Sky. The comments from Shane Sutton, admitting that the team would push things right to the limit, the lost records, the Jiffy bag.”
LeMond also described Team Sky’s use of tramadol, an unrestricted but controversial painkiller, as “unconscionable”.
He described the team’s use of therapeutic use exemptions (TUEs) as “bogus”, referring in particular to the three TUEs given to Sir Bradley Wiggins that allowed him to use what LeMond labelled “a very powerful steroid”.
“It pains me to hear Brailsford and the team dismiss real science as pseudoscience, always a red flag as far as I am concerned,” the American said. “As history has shown, when things are too good to be true, they usually are.”
Describing Froome’s finding for salbutamol as the rider’s own responsibility, LeMond added his voice to those suspicious of the high levels of the drug in Froome’s test result.
“The fallacy that salbutamol does not improve performance is only true if you use it as prescribed,” he said. “Taken orally or by injection it acts as an anabolic steroid, similar to clenbuterol, the drug that Alberto Contador was positive for.
“It’s the athlete’s responsibility for following the rules. As for the use of salbutamol, it’s up to Chris Froome to be responsible for what he puts into his body. He alone is responsible. The peloton relies on the equal application of the rules. If these are not followed, it undermines the sport.”
*** Pound, the former president of the World Anti-Doping Agency (Wada) and recent chairman of the Wada independent commission report into doping in Russian sport, believes that Froome will struggle to escape a ban. “If you’re over the threshold by 100 per cent, that needs some explanation,” Pound said. “At that level, it will be hard for the International Cycling Union (UCI) to not do something in terms of sanction.”
Christian Prudhomme, the Tour de France director, has called for Froome’s case to be fast-tracked to avoid it overshadowing this year’s race. Pound, like others, sees the process taking some time. Contador’s positive test for clenbuterol in July 2010 took more than 18 months to resolve. He was stripped of his 2010 Tour de France title and several other results after a hearing at the Council of Arbitration for Sport (CAS) in February 2012.
“If the UCI don’t impose a sanction, then it’s possible that Wada could step in,” Pound said. “If Wada steps in then I’d imagine it would go to CAS as a last resort.
“If the defence is anxious to have it wrapped up, it can be done fairly quickly, but if the defence is anxious about winning and adopts the normal tactic of delaying, that can take quite a time.”
Pound, who once described cycling’s ethics as being “in the toilet”, is sceptical of Froome’s case. “There was always a surprising number of heroic asthmatics on TUEs,” he said. “My guess is that the problems in cycling’s credibility are still there.”
Robert5091 said:
“Give me a break,” LeMond said. “That is the most ridiculous excuse I have ever heard. If this is what he claims, then it’s simple, he broke the rules and should be punished accordingly.
“You have to look at Froome’s AAF in context of everything around Team Sky. The comments from Shane Sutton, admitting that the team would push things right to the limit, the lost records, the Jiffy bag.”
LeMond also described Team Sky’s use of tramadol, an unrestricted but controversial painkiller, as “unconscionable”.
He described the team’s use of therapeutic use exemptions (TUEs) as “bogus”, referring in particular to the three TUEs given to Sir Bradley Wiggins that allowed him to use what LeMond labelled “a very powerful steroid”.
“It pains me to hear Brailsford and the team dismiss real science as pseudoscience, always a red flag as far as I am concerned,” the American said. “As history has shown, when things are too good to be true, they usually are.”
Describing Froome’s finding for salbutamol as the rider’s own responsibility, LeMond added his voice to those suspicious of the high levels of the drug in Froome’s test result.
“The fallacy that salbutamol does not improve performance is only true if you use it as prescribed,” he said. “Taken orally or by injection it acts as an anabolic steroid, similar to clenbuterol, the drug that Alberto Contador was positive for.
“It’s the athlete’s responsibility for following the rules. As for the use of salbutamol, it’s up to Chris Froome to be responsible for what he puts into his body. He alone is responsible. The peloton relies on the equal application of the rules. If these are not followed, it undermines the sport.”
*** Pound, the former president of the World Anti-Doping Agency (Wada) and recent chairman of the Wada independent commission report into doping in Russian sport, believes that Froome will struggle to escape a ban. “If you’re over the threshold by 100 per cent, that needs some explanation,” Pound said. “At that level, it will be hard for the International Cycling Union (UCI) to not do something in terms of sanction.”
Christian Prudhomme, the Tour de France director, has called for Froome’s case to be fast-tracked to avoid it overshadowing this year’s race. Pound, like others, sees the process taking some time. Contador’s positive test for clenbuterol in July 2010 took more than 18 months to resolve. He was stripped of his 2010 Tour de France title and several other results after a hearing at the Council of Arbitration for Sport (CAS) in February 2012.
“If the UCI don’t impose a sanction, then it’s possible that Wada could step in,” Pound said. “If Wada steps in then I’d imagine it would go to CAS as a last resort.
“If the defence is anxious to have it wrapped up, it can be done fairly quickly, but if the defence is anxious about winning and adopts the normal tactic of delaying, that can take quite a time.”
Pound, who once described cycling’s ethics as being “in the toilet”, is sceptical of Froome’s case. “There was always a surprising number of heroic asthmatics on TUEs,” he said. “My guess is that the problems in cycling’s credibility are still there.”
The scene is now set for an oncoming attack on Lemond's credibility and more obfuscation and diversionary tactic's. Perhaps a bit of Brailsford psycho babble or alternatively wheel out Swart to try and bamboozle the 'uneducated people' with his Scientific lingo.
Greg pulls no punches, as ever.
I'm still intrigued as to the Salbutamol though. Does it make sense for it to be used mid Vuelta for illegimate purposes? Pre-tour
maybe, but mid-race? There is then the question of Froome's guaranteed testing. It strikes me that he was either just unbelievably careless with the puffer on the day, or there is a whole backstory to this. I haven't heard of anybody talking about a Salbutamol doping protocol that fits this case.
Oh well. If they hurry up and get this sorted maybe we'll be spared another year of Brailsford's nonsense.
I'm still intrigued as to the Salbutamol though. Does it make sense for it to be used mid Vuelta for illegimate purposes? Pre-tour
maybe, but mid-race? There is then the question of Froome's guaranteed testing. It strikes me that he was either just unbelievably careless with the puffer on the day, or there is a whole backstory to this. I haven't heard of anybody talking about a Salbutamol doping protocol that fits this case.
Oh well. If they hurry up and get this sorted maybe we'll be spared another year of Brailsford's nonsense.
Re:
Poor Greg; cycling's Cassandra. I can't think of anything he's gotten wrong, but nobody ever seems to trust or believe him.
As for Froome... <shrug> The why he got caught is probably not so important, and likely has a mundane explanation. Something along the lines of lining up the days meds and not realizing he grabbed a Salbutamol pill along with everything else.
John Swanson
macbindle said:
Poor Greg; cycling's Cassandra. I can't think of anything he's gotten wrong, but nobody ever seems to trust or believe him.
As for Froome... <shrug> The why he got caught is probably not so important, and likely has a mundane explanation. Something along the lines of lining up the days meds and not realizing he grabbed a Salbutamol pill along with everything else.
John Swanson
Hello All, first post with probably a daft question: is it possible Froome was tested twice that day? Once post race and thinking all clear takes massive dose of Salbutamol then, oh dear, testers call again.
Re: Re:
I have more faith in Lemond's views than pretty much any ex-cyclist I can think of. As much as I enjoy Kimmage, I do recognise his self-interest (Its his living).
You are probably right about the explanation. Froome has probably got a separate lorry for all his meds. Can't be easy to keep a handle on it.
ScienceIsCool said:
I have more faith in Lemond's views than pretty much any ex-cyclist I can think of. As much as I enjoy Kimmage, I do recognise his self-interest (Its his living).
You are probably right about the explanation. Froome has probably got a separate lorry for all his meds. Can't be easy to keep a handle on it.
Apart from Froome's already said the doctor upped his dose and he didn't take more than the permissible dose. True or not, that is the legal line on this anyway.
Depending how this plays out, we'd be able to see what leverage Sky/Murdochs have at UCI. I await SDB's spin campaign.
Re:
It's possible yes. I think Andy Schleck was once tested 3 times in a day, once in the morning as a random, once as a stage winner and again in the afternoon as a random test. It's possible they will even test a stage winner and yellow jersey wearer twice, once when you win the stage and then later, it's within the remit. The question would be why do it?
LynnJB said:
It's possible yes. I think Andy Schleck was once tested 3 times in a day, once in the morning as a random, once as a stage winner and again in the afternoon as a random test. It's possible they will even test a stage winner and yellow jersey wearer twice, once when you win the stage and then later, it's within the remit. The question would be why do it?
Re:
Anyone needing that much Ventolin in a short period of time would not be racing a 6 hour bike race they would be sitting in a chair waiting for a doctor or going to hospital. Froome's story of extra puffs is only possible if the testing is flawed and if Froome can't explain the Salbutamol levels and if the testers don't know how the test could be defective what then ? It sounds like Froome is trying to bluff his way out of a ban and rely on his legal team to show how the testing result could be wrong. That should be interesting. I'm not convinced that Froome and his legal team can scientifically explain the reading. That seems to be their only defence.
I think there was a massive amount in his system before the stage started and whatever he had on top of that such as the few extra puffs according to Froome, didn't add much to what was already there and the massive amount was probably part of the ongoing program and had little to do with the performance on the stage as a fat burner and muscle builder not so much effecting the lungs. If his lungs were that bad on the day then his performance would have been way off his best and he would have been losing time on the stage or barely finishing let alone continuing. And that is the best case scenario for someone who actually needed that much Ventolin for the usual purposes which he obviously didn't.
macbindle said:
Anyone needing that much Ventolin in a short period of time would not be racing a 6 hour bike race they would be sitting in a chair waiting for a doctor or going to hospital. Froome's story of extra puffs is only possible if the testing is flawed and if Froome can't explain the Salbutamol levels and if the testers don't know how the test could be defective what then ? It sounds like Froome is trying to bluff his way out of a ban and rely on his legal team to show how the testing result could be wrong. That should be interesting. I'm not convinced that Froome and his legal team can scientifically explain the reading. That seems to be their only defence.
I think there was a massive amount in his system before the stage started and whatever he had on top of that such as the few extra puffs according to Froome, didn't add much to what was already there and the massive amount was probably part of the ongoing program and had little to do with the performance on the stage as a fat burner and muscle builder not so much effecting the lungs. If his lungs were that bad on the day then his performance would have been way off his best and he would have been losing time on the stage or barely finishing let alone continuing. And that is the best case scenario for someone who actually needed that much Ventolin for the usual purposes which he obviously didn't.
Re: Re:
Thanks for the reply. I've no idea why he would do it, but it does seem surprising that he would get the timing so wrong knowing he was going to be tested post race. How could he mess it up so badly unless he had an unexpected test sometime that day. Then again, Sky do seem to mess a lot of things up so probably not so surprising at all.
King Boonen said:
Thanks for the reply. I've no idea why he would do it, but it does seem surprising that he would get the timing so wrong knowing he was going to be tested post race. How could he mess it up so badly unless he had an unexpected test sometime that day. Then again, Sky do seem to mess a lot of things up so probably not so surprising at all.
Re: Re:
I've run into Greg over the years at various bike trade shows, and got the good fortune to sit down and have a hour lunch with him one day, not exactly on towel snapping in the sauna terms with each other, but he does come across to me, and other industry blokes, as a pretty decent sort. I don't think there is much he has said that hasn't rang true or relatively close to the truth...
macbindle said:
I've run into Greg over the years at various bike trade shows, and got the good fortune to sit down and have a hour lunch with him one day, not exactly on towel snapping in the sauna terms with each other, but he does come across to me, and other industry blokes, as a pretty decent sort. I don't think there is much he has said that hasn't rang true or relatively close to the truth...
It's good to see Pound shooting from the hip again - I know he's often called by the media for 'rent a quote' but at times he passes comment on a case in which he has limited intimate knowledge - Will agree that there is a chance WADA will appeal if Froome escapes sanction from the UCI.
Re: Re:
Glad you mentioned self interest. Whilst there's no doubt Greg is rarely far from the truth, he's also more than happy to jump on and push along any bandwagon that supports and extends his own projected image as the one and only truly clean champion cyclist in the entire history of champion cyclists.
macbindle said:
Glad you mentioned self interest. Whilst there's no doubt Greg is rarely far from the truth, he's also more than happy to jump on and push along any bandwagon that supports and extends his own projected image as the one and only truly clean champion cyclist in the entire history of champion cyclists.
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