Teams & Riders Froome Talk Only

[LaFlorecita]

This was hilarious from tiralongo

"No, this is not like Landis' win. He's Chris Froome, he's not a donkey. He did a ride like Alberto Contador used to do."

Aye he's not a donkey but he used to be one. Don't compare this crap to Berto's rides.

The only thing Contador did that was comparable was Fuente de

Well, Berto built his image around attacking at sometimes crazy moments, and pulling off wins that seemed impossible. Of course he usually had a big help from other riders and teammates, and he also failed at least twice as many times as he succeeded.
And actually, I'd argue nothing he did was comparable to what Froome did yesterday. Froome showed at least twice as much ability and sheer power in that ride than Berto ever did. As I wrote in PRR, when Berto went on a big raid, there was always a big degree of uncertainty and vulnerability. Yesterday I didn't believe for one moment that Froome wouldn't pull it off, and that says quite a lot. Just slapping everyone around the ears with raw power is not something I usually enjoy.

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re: Re:

The only people who seem to have not enjoyed it are those who are massive fanboys of other riders primarily, rather than fans of the sport. This was great entertainment.

Yes, that's it. Could you please go throught he last 10+ pages of this thread and for everyone that expressed they felt cheated, could not believe what they were seeing etc., list which riders they are massive fanboys of? That's a lot of work, but it's also a pretty big statement that right now you cannot back up.

No. It's pretty clear that only people who watch the sport through personalities (their enjoyment of the race being framed primarily by the performances of both their favourites and those they dislike) would not have enjoyed watching a stage with an 80km solo attack.

It's pretty clear to you, yet many people in this thread don't seem to fit that description. But whatever, believe what you want to believe.

 

[Brian Butterfield]

Froome goes full Joker and doubles...triples...quadruples down. "Wait till they get a load of me..."

 

[Froomster]

 

[RedheadDane]

Re:

Froome goes full Joker and doubles...triples...quadruples down. "Wait till they get a load of me..."

No need to involve Chris Juul-Jensen in this.

 

[ahsoe]

A scary thought comes to mind: has he been this good for the entire Giro?
Just holding back, feigning (apart from the crash) waiting to be truly unleashed?

One also has to ask: in other GT's where he has had a comfortable lead - could he have been winning by 15 minutes if he wanted to?

True. Indeed in recent Tours, it seems, he hasn't been really tested. So I would answer your question with a yes.

But in my naivety, with the Salbutamol case and all, I just thought that this finally was a more regular Froome. How he would ride without all the chemicals etc. But, hey, fooled yet again.

 

[Red Rick]

Re: Re:

What a load of sanctimonious bs. This is exactly the sort of stage people will remember and talk about for decades - this kind of drama is precisely what keeps the sport relevant and in the mainstream.

And it would hardly be less suspicious if Froome didn't exist and a TTer like Dumoulin had ended up putting 5 minutes into his closest rivals instead.

The only people who seem to have not enjoyed it are those who are massive fanboys of other riders primarily, rather than fans of the sport. This was great entertainment.

Yes, in a world of the superficial and soundbites, this kind of thing is what the sport needs. Doesn't have to be believable, it has to be spectacular. I'm not a 'fanboy' of anyone in this Giro, but I felt cheated. The fact that quite a number of (ex) cyclists react the way they do, speaks volumes.

It's no less believable than Dumoulin winning a GT by minutes or Yates destroying everyone in the first two weeks then losing 45 minutes on one day. Or Contador finding form out of nowhere to rip up the last GT of his career and win on Angliru. Or Nibali attacking and holding off a load of sprinters to win Milan San Remo, a few months after also winning Lombardia. Or Quickstep anihilating everyone in the classics. Or Valverde returning from a terrible injury to dominate every stage race he enters this year, aged 38.

None of cycling at the very highest level is believable. It hasn't been since blood doping was introduced to the sport. The least we can ask is that they make it entertaining, creating suspense and drama. Froome hasn't done that in the past - he's generally showed an Armstrong type dominance - but yesterday he did. He created a masterpiece for the ages.

They're not even close to the same magnitude. Yates put 20 seconds into his opponents uphill and then another 20s cause they didn't cooperate behind him. It was a 17km solo. Dumoulin never won a GT by minutes, and was only in virtual pink cause he was by far the most consistent without any really bad days.

 

[Froomster]

 

[Red Rick]

This was hilarious from tiralongo

"No, this is not like Landis' win. He's Chris Froome, he's not a donkey. He did a ride like Alberto Contador used to do."

Aye he's not a donkey but he used to be one. Don't compare this crap to Berto's rides.

The only thing Contador did that was comparable was Fuente de

Well, Berto built his image around attacking at sometimes crazy moments, and pulling off wins that seemed impossible. Of course he usually had a big help from other riders and teammates, and he also failed at least twice as many times as he succeeded.
And actually, I'd argue nothing he did was comparable to what Froome did yesterday. Froome showed at least twice as much ability and sheer power in that ride than Berto ever did. As I wrote in PRR, when Berto went on a big raid, there was always a big degree of uncertainty and vulnerability. Yesterday I didn't believe for one moment that Froome wouldn't pull it off, and that says quite a lot. Just slapping everyone around the ears with raw power is not something I usually enjoy.

Very much this.

Contador made crazy attacks when he couldn't win the 'normal' way.

Froome's Giro victory was never in doubt from the moment they got on Sestriere and the gap kept getting bigger.

 

[Brian Butterfield]

Re: Re:

Froome goes full Joker and doubles...triples...quadruples down. "Wait till they get a load of me..."

No need to involve Chris Juul-Jensen in this.

Apologies to Juul-Jensen who is at least entertaining.

 

[Froomster]

Re: Re:

You can't say I am a froom fan but I love it. Chris is the hope now for all asthmetics around the globe.

What a difference a little salbutamol a day makes.

I think his other kidney must have given up. Now, if his liver goes tomorrow - watch out!

 

[ahsoe]

Re:

I have a hard time understanding how you can time your form for a single stage, like Froome did today. I am sure you can time your form to a given week or even close to a single day, but not while racing a 3 week GT though. That's what's most unbelievable for me.

Spot on. And Sky and Froome has actually all along claimed that the Giro (rightly) was won in the third week, and planned to peak there (which they certainly have!).

In general, it is impressive how Froome and Sky hardly ever miss their form when it really matters in GTs. They have a GT as an objective and you can be sure that they will turn up in top condition. They never turn up too heavy or slightly below their form, unless it is part of a plan to win consecutive GTs.

Jan Ullrich and countless others much feel like amateurs in their continued struggles to hit the correct form for the GTs

 

[macbindle]

The cod psychological analysis of Froome based on what he said about himself as a kid is naive. All of these riders are highly unusual people, ruthless, competitive.

Regardless of all the likelihood of massive medical intervention it was a fantastic stage, tactically as well as physically. The guy gained time on the descent.

He did a Landis. Landis was charged up, but he was in that state all of the time as were his competitors. Landis still managed something special, as did Froome. He's a hard rider to watch, he's the dodgiest guy in the peloton, but this morning I'm thinking that was one amazing stage.

 

[macbindle]

Re: Re:

I have a hard time understanding how you can time your form for a single stage, like Froome did today. I am sure you can time your form to a given week or even close to a single day, but not while racing a 3 week GT though. That's what's most unbelievable for me.

Spot on. And Sky and Froome has actually all along claimed that the Giro (rightly) was won in the third week, and planned to peak there (which they certainly have!).

In general, it is impressive how Froome and Sky hardly ever miss their form when it really matters in GTs. They have a GT as an objective and you can be sure that they will turn up in top condition. They never turn up too heavy or slightly below their form, unless it is part of a plan to win consecutive GTs.

Jan Ullrich and countless others much feel like amateurs in their continued struggles to hit the correct form for the GTs

Have you guys not been watching the Giro?

Perhaps you missed the stage when Froome won on the Zoncolan? He was already in form and waiting.

 

[vcampbell]

Re: Re:

I have a hard time understanding how you can time your form for a single stage, like Froome did today. I am sure you can time your form to a given week or even close to a single day, but not while racing a 3 week GT though. That's what's most unbelievable for me.

Spot on. And Sky and Froome has actually all along claimed that the Giro (rightly) was won in the third week, and planned to peak there (which they certainly have!).

In general, it is impressive how Froome and Sky hardly ever miss their form when it really matters in GTs. They have a GT as an objective and you can be sure that they will turn up in top condition. They never turn up too heavy or slightly below their form, unless it is part of a plan to win consecutive GTs.

Jan Ullrich and countless others much feel like amateurs in their continued struggles to hit the correct form for the GTs

Have you guys not been watching the Giro?

Perhaps you missed the stage when Froome won on the Zoncolan? He was already in form and waiting.

And you? After Zoncolan he dropped like a stone. Please tell me more.
Yesterday was a joke, a disgusting one.

 

[ahsoe]

Re: Re:

I have a hard time understanding how you can time your form for a single stage, like Froome did today. I am sure you can time your form to a given week or even close to a single day, but not while racing a 3 week GT though. That's what's most unbelievable for me.

Spot on. And Sky and Froome has actually all along claimed that the Giro (rightly) was won in the third week, and planned to peak there (which they certainly have!).

In general, it is impressive how Froome and Sky hardly ever miss their form when it really matters in GTs. They have a GT as an objective and you can be sure that they will turn up in top condition. They never turn up too heavy or slightly below their form, unless it is part of a plan to win consecutive GTs.

Jan Ullrich and countless others much feel like amateurs in their continued struggles to hit the correct form for the GTs

Have you guys not been watching the Giro?

Perhaps you missed the stage when Froome won on the Zoncolan? He was already in form and waiting.

Yes, I have been watching most of the stages. And as I also wrote in another post, I find it believable that you can actually ride yourself into form and perhaps gain a stage win like Zoncolan.
But the Finestre-ride is something else completely. That requires an absolutely stellar form, which I simply do not believe you can acchieve by riding the Giro, seeing how Froome and Sky performed in the first two weeks. But that is just my opinion.
If he has been in this kind of form for the entire Giro, he surely has been very clever and conceiled it efficiently until Zoncolan.

 

[No_Balls]

Re: Re:

It was litterary a *** you and catch me if you can-moment in the face of the governement bodies and despite pending investigation nobody could do anything about it. I bet DB had all the numbers and figures Froome could afford to lose for the sake of drama and transparency. This was planned all along and im left speechless and feeling ill.

Im done with pro cycling.

 

[RedheadDane]

Re: Re:

Froome goes full Joker and doubles...triples...quadruples down. "Wait till they get a load of me..."

No need to involve Chris Juul-Jensen in this.

Apologies to Juul-Jensen who is at least entertaining.

Also, wouldn't "Going full Joker" mean "pulling the pack for hours"?


(And I only just realised that they're both call Chris(topher)...)

 

[bigcog]

Re: Re:

Anybody know a breakdown of the time he gained/lost on the climbs, false flats and descents ? I got the impression a fair chunk was gained on the descents, but obviously that would spoil the narrative somewhat if that is correct.

https://ammattipyoraily.wordpress.com/2018/05/25/giro-ditalia-2018-stage-19-last-80-3-km-froome-%E2%86%94-dumoulin-gps-time-gap/

https://twitter.com/ammattipyoraily/status/1000136775065587712

Looks like the 'narrative' is accurate.

80.3 km ATTACK
80 km ——
79 km 0:09
78 km 0:15
77 km 0:27
76 km 0:39
75 km 0:38
74 km 0:38
73.3 km 0:42 SUMMIT OF FINESTRE
72 km 0:45
71 km 0:53
70 km 0:55
69 km 0:58
68 km 1:06
67 km 1:12
66 km 1:17
65 km 1:20
64 km 1:26
63 km 1:29
62 km 1:29
61 km ——
60 km ——
59 km 1:38
58 km 1:42
57 km 1:47
56 km 1:51
55 km 1:56
54 km 1:54
53 km 1:52
52 km 1:54
51 km 1:56
50 km 2:09
49 km 2:19
48 km 2:23
47 km 2:33
46.0 km 2:45 SUMMIT OF SESTRIERE
45 km 2:44
44 km 2:43
43 km 2:41
42 km 2:43
41 km 2:39
40 km 2:44
39 km 2:42
38 km 2:41
37 km 2:41
36 km 2:45
35 km 2:45
34 km 2:47
33 km 2:56
32 km 2:57
31 km 2:57
30 km 2:55
29 km 2:52
28 km 2:55
27 km 2:54
26 km 2:54
25 km 2:54
24 km 2:56
23 km 3:00
22 km 3:00
21 km 3:07
20 km 3:08
19 km 3:03
18 km 3:03
17 km 3:08
16 km 3:07
15 km 3:13
14 km 3:15
13 km 3:17
12 km 3:20
11 km 3:29
10 km 3:32
9 km 3:32
8 km 3:27
7.3 km 3:24 START OF JAFFERAU
7 km 3:21
6 km 3:23
5 km 3:12
4 km 3:12
3 km 3:09
2 km 3:11
1 km 3:14
0 km 3:23 FINISH

Based on this, assuming it's accurate, then:

Attack to summit FINESTRE: 42s gained
Descent of FINESTRE: 47s gained
Ascent of SESTRIERE: 67s gained
Descent of SESTRIERE & false flat: 42s gained
Ascent of JAFFERAU: 1s lost

Gained in ascent: 1min 48s
Gained on descent: 1min 29s

 

[Froomster]

Re: Re:

80.3 km ATTACK
80 km ——
79 km 0:09
78 km 0:15
77 km 0:27
76 km 0:39
75 km 0:38
74 km 0:38
73.3 km 0:42 SUMMIT OF FINESTRE
72 km 0:45
.....

Fabulous analysis - literally says it all. Almost every km for 80kms, he's putting massive time into the best bike riders in the world.

The drug testers are so far behind, it's like cavemen fighting a US marine.

 

[rick james]

Re:

did lance say anything yet?

why does it matter?

 

[LaFlorecita]

That's interesting, but the false flat before Jafferau should really not be counted towards the time gained while descending. It's more similar to climbing than descending as there is no technique involved.
From 23 to go to 7.3 to go - 24s.

 

[Bronstein]

Re: Re:

Anybody know a breakdown of the time he gained/lost on the climbs, false flats and descents ? I got the impression a fair chunk was gained on the descents, but obviously that would spoil the narrative somewhat if that is correct.

https://ammattipyoraily.wordpress.com/2018/05/25/giro-ditalia-2018-stage-19-last-80-3-km-froome-%E2%86%94-dumoulin-gps-time-gap/

https://twitter.com/ammattipyoraily/status/1000136775065587712

Looks like the 'narrative' is accurate.

80.3 km ATTACK
80 km ——
79 km 0:09
78 km 0:15
77 km 0:27
76 km 0:39
75 km 0:38
74 km 0:38
73.3 km 0:42 SUMMIT OF FINESTRE
72 km 0:45
71 km 0:53
70 km 0:55
69 km 0:58
68 km 1:06
67 km 1:12
66 km 1:17
65 km 1:20
64 km 1:26
63 km 1:29
62 km 1:29
61 km ——
60 km ——
59 km 1:38
58 km 1:42
57 km 1:47
56 km 1:51
55 km 1:56
54 km 1:54
53 km 1:52
52 km 1:54
51 km 1:56
50 km 2:09
49 km 2:19
48 km 2:23
47 km 2:33
46.0 km 2:45 SUMMIT OF SESTRIERE
45 km 2:44
44 km 2:43
43 km 2:41
42 km 2:43
41 km 2:39
40 km 2:44
39 km 2:42
38 km 2:41
37 km 2:41
36 km 2:45
35 km 2:45
34 km 2:47
33 km 2:56
32 km 2:57
31 km 2:57
30 km 2:55
29 km 2:52
28 km 2:55
27 km 2:54
26 km 2:54
25 km 2:54
24 km 2:56
23 km 3:00
22 km 3:00
21 km 3:07
20 km 3:08
19 km 3:03
18 km 3:03
17 km 3:08
16 km 3:07
15 km 3:13
14 km 3:15
13 km 3:17
12 km 3:20
11 km 3:29
10 km 3:32
9 km 3:32
8 km 3:27
7.3 km 3:24 START OF JAFFERAU
7 km 3:21
6 km 3:23
5 km 3:12
4 km 3:12
3 km 3:09
2 km 3:11
1 km 3:14
0 km 3:23 FINISH

Based on this, assuming it's accurate, then:

Attack to summit FINESTRE: 42s gained
Descent of FINESTRE: 47s gained
Ascent of SESTRIERE: 67s gained
Descent of SESTRIERE & false flat: 42s gained
Ascent of JAFFERAU: 1s lost

Gained in ascent: 1min 48s
Gained on descent: 1min 29s

No, if you include false flat as 'ascent', it's:

Gained on ascent: 2 min 24s
Gained on descent: 59s

https://twitter.com/imdonncha/status/1000150343039176705

 

[Narce_]

The "mostly gained time on the descent" argument is stupid.

Yes, he gained time on the descent, that's a fact. He also gained time on the ascent. Dumoulin and co. made a tactical error by waiting for Reichenbach, that can account for some time too. Also, it's different when you gain some time on a descent and you keep it for a while, but that's not what we've seen yesterday.

To be so much faster on every descent - what about the factor of fatigue? When you're tired, you can't pay as much attention as you should. You are more prone to make mistakes, to misjudge a corner, to crash... So when you are tired, you won't descend on full speed.
Froome's speed and constant gains tells me that he was a lot less tired than anyone else, even when he was climbing so much faster for so long, alone. So how is this possible?

I think we've seen a motor. He was just... way too powerful.

 

[bigcog]

Re:

That's interesting, but the false flat before Jafferau should really not be counted towards the time gained while descending. It's more similar to climbing than descending as there is no technique involved.
From 23 to go to 7.3 to go - 24s.

Yep that's true, so he gained about 1min 2s on the descents and 2min 21s on the ascents.