Froome's SRM data on Ventoux

[the sceptic]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=99dqfiQcbio&feature=youtu.be

This seems like a big deal so it needs it's own thread.

notice how Dawgs heartrate barely changes when he goes into crazy attack mode.

Should give a lot more fuel to the motor fire?

 

[SeriousSam]

That's a such low max HR for an elite athlete. I always thought elite endurance athletes have higher than average max HRs as well. If the heart doesn't pump that often, it needs to do a tremendous amount of work per pump to get the same cardiac output.

Anyone know @festinaboy, the guy who provided the SRM data? Where would he get it from?

 

[the sceptic]

festinaboy is Vayer, so I very much doubt this is fake. I have no idea where he would get it from though.

 

[danielovichdk2]

Is this a joke ? You believe in a video with some way off values ?

 

[djpbaltimore]

Does this really need its own thread especially when you already posted the video in the Froome thread?

 

[the sceptic]

Re:

Is this a joke ? You believe in a video with some way off values ?

way off? it's the raw data. How easy do you think it would be to fake so much data?

 

[zlev11]

Re:

Is this a joke ? You believe in a video with some way off values ?

it's the real data

https://twitter.com/Scienceofsport/status/620680592183525377

 

[nogav1ca]

Re: Re:

His HR changed from 156 to 162, which is pretty big, when you are riding close to maximum and at relatively low HR. Some people have lower max HR than other, so this really isn't something special. Also another important thing is that this was later in Tour, so he couldn't go up to his real max HR.
Also comparing HR to power at certain time is stupid (I've seen it on twitter), since HR lags a bit behind the power.

 

[Supimilian]

Re: Re:

Is this a joke ? You believe in a video with some way off values ?

it's the real data

https://twitter.com/Scienceofsport/status/620680592183525377

This was already went over in the Froome thread. Those are almost certainly fake. That Tucker guy don't know what he is talking about. That amount of data points can easily be faked.

 

[the sceptic]

Re: Re:

Is this a joke ? You believe in a video with some way off values ?

it's the real data

https://twitter.com/Scienceofsport/status/620680592183525377

I love how Dawgs heartrate goes from about 150 to 160 when talking on the radio and doing crazy mutant 1000 watt attacks.

This actually makes me believe that Dawg is doping with motors too.

 

[Supimilian]

Re: Re:

Is this a joke ? You believe in a video with some way off values ?

it's the real data

https://twitter.com/Scienceofsport/status/620680592183525377

I love how Dawgs heartrate goes from about 150 to 160 when talking on the radio and doing crazy mutant 1000 watt attacks.

This actually makes me believe that Dawg is doping with motors too.

Yes, and the logical thing to do when doping with motors is of course having the SRM file just, you know, lay around to get taken to festinaboy by some 'good samaritan' a couple years down the road.

 

[ebandit]

mate

Is this a joke ? You believe in a video with some way off values ?

it's the real data

https://twitter.com/Scienceofsport/status/620680592183525377

This actually makes me believe that Dawg is doping with motors too.

course they are...........dave's mate brian gave team sky a free pass....

the tailwind story was just a diversion..............

Mark L

 

[the sceptic]

just to get it out the way.

Vayer is a pseudo-scientist and hates british winners. Ross Tucker is jealous. The data is fake and thus there is no point talking about it.

 

[Supimilian]

Re:

just to get it out the way.

Vayer is a pseudo-scientist and hates british winners. Ross Tucker is jealous. The data is fake and thus there is no point talking about it.

How about you address the issue for once? Who these people are and what they feel doesn't matter, does it?

 

[the sceptic]

Re: Re:

just to get it out the way.

Vayer is a pseudo-scientist and hates british winners. Ross Tucker is jealous. The data is fake and thus there is no point talking about it.

How about you address the issue for once? Who these people are and what they feel doesn't matter, does it?

how about you stop trolling for once?

The issue is clear. Froome is doing crazy watts with barely any change to his heart rate. Only one logical explanation for that.

 

[Supimilian]

Re: Re:

just to get it out the way.

Vayer is a pseudo-scientist and hates british winners. Ross Tucker is jealous. The data is fake and thus there is no point talking about it.

How about you address the issue for once? Who these people are and what they feel doesn't matter, does it?

how about you stop trolling for once?

The issue is clear. Froome is doing crazy watts with barely any change to his heart rate. Only one logical explanation for that.

If you're not gonna post anything of substance, at least be funny.
Is that too much to ask?

 

[the sceptic]

Re: Re:

just to get it out the way.

Vayer is a pseudo-scientist and hates british winners. Ross Tucker is jealous. The data is fake and thus there is no point talking about it.

How about you address the issue for once? Who these people are and what they feel doesn't matter, does it?

how about you stop trolling for once?

The issue is clear. Froome is doing crazy watts with barely any change to his heart rate. Only one logical explanation for that.

If you're not gonna post anything of substance, at least be funny.
Is that too much to ask?

Highly respected sports scientist Ross Tucker agrees with me that the whole thing is absurd and he has no explanation. That speaks volumes.

Do you have any alternative theory how Froome could be doing this other than a motor in his bike?

 

[King Boonen]

Re: Re:

Is this a joke ? You believe in a video with some way off values ?

way off? it's the raw data. How easy do you think it would be to fake so much data?

Extremely easy.

 

[Supimilian]

Re: Re:

just to get it out the way.

Vayer is a pseudo-scientist and hates british winners. Ross Tucker is jealous. The data is fake and thus there is no point talking about it.

How about you address the issue for once? Who these people are and what they feel doesn't matter, does it?

how about you stop trolling for once?

The issue is clear. Froome is doing crazy watts with barely any change to his heart rate. Only one logical explanation for that.

If you're not gonna post anything of substance, at least be funny.
Is that too much to ask?

Highly respected sports scientist Ross Tucker agrees with me that the whole thing is absurd and he has no explanation. That speaks volumes.

Do you have any alternative theory how Froome could be doing this other than a motor in his bike?

How about Tucker being a moron for claiming they must be real because almost 3000 data points. The reason he claims they are outrageous is the same reason that should make him think it's fake, and had most of us here drawing that conclusion a couple days ago. Smart guy.

And again, if they did use a motor there is no way in hell he would be able to get the file (at least not this much later). They would surely get rid of the evidence. It just doesn't make any sense.

 

[mrhender]

I have no idea if the data is for real..

But finding the answer in personal bickering/accusations of trolling is highly ambitious to say the least..

Please get back on topic..

Cheers
mrhender

 

[the sceptic]

Re: Re:

Is this a joke ? You believe in a video with some way off values ?

way off? it's the raw data. How easy do you think it would be to fake so much data?

Extremely easy.

ok, but I highly doubt Vayer would go to so much trouble and risk his whole rep on this.

Ross Tucker ‏@Scienceofsport 1h1 hour ago

Oh, and I've seen the raw data. It would be very difficult to fabricate 2916 data points for cadence, HR, power, speed & altitude like that

 

[Catwhoorg]

Correct me if I am wrong.

Assuming he was going at/close to his Lactate threshold (so 1 hour sustainable power) wouldn't his HR be at~85-90% of his maximum ? (156/169 = 92% of max, showing 169 probably isn't a real max, but probably not too far off)

There really isn't that much room to move up, especially part way through a 3 week race..
A 6 bpm increase is about a 3-4% increase (based on the max of 169 from the 2011 Vuelta data), pushing his HR into the 90-95% zone for a VO2max level interval/attack.

Something like a 10 bpm increase in my heart rate is the difference between a good LT pace, and OMG I'm dying make it stop sort of pace..

 

[Supimilian]

Re: Re:

Is this a joke ? You believe in a video with some way off values ?

way off? it's the raw data. How easy do you think it would be to fake so much data?

Extremely easy.

ok, but I highly doubt Vayer would go to so much trouble and risk his whole rep on this.

Ross Tucker ‏@Scienceofsport 1h1 hour ago

Oh, and I've seen the raw data. It would be very difficult to fabricate 2916 data points for cadence, HR, power, speed & altitude like that

Risk whole rep? It's fricken Twitter lol

No, it would not be hard to make 5 poorly matching parameters over 2916 data points. That's a bizarre statement.

 

[King Boonen]

Re: Re:

Is this a joke ? You believe in a video with some way off values ?

way off? it's the raw data. How easy do you think it would be to fake so much data?

Extremely easy.

ok, but I highly doubt Vayer would go to so much trouble and risk his whole rep on this.

Ross Tucker ‏@Scienceofsport 1h1 hour ago

Oh, and I've seen the raw data. It would be very difficult to fabricate 2916 data points for cadence, HR, power, speed & altitude like that

But how would Vayer know? That's 5 variables. If you know the approximate range of the values you want thats about 10 minutes work, maybe 30 minutes to an hour if you really want to get it right in excel. Anyone could do it. Then you just need to get it into the right file which would be trivial for anyone who knew what they were doing.

Tuckers statement shows, at best, an extremely poor understanding.

 

[the sceptic]

maybe he got it from grappe? I don't know.

I still don't understand what Vayer has to gain from faking this thing.

If it's fake then Dawg can just go ahead and show us the real thing, and Vayer would be forever relegated to the realm of pseudo-science. That seems like a big hit for Froomes biggest public hater.