Fuentes, Saiz and others to stand trial

[Race Radio]

I have Polish on ignore, so I don't read his posts unless someone quotes them.
However, are we really disagreeing that the TdF can be done in a healthier manner being blood doped or otherwise vs. cleanly? Really?

I would think it is quite obvious, as much as it pains me to agree with Polish, that there are health benefits to doping under such extreme exertion. Our bodies are not designed for such hardship. Doping is a manner of hedging against the side effects of these endurance efforts.

I'm not saying that doping is justified or whatever, but I think we need to admit that the procedures or chemicals on the banned list can have some beneficial effects in races requiring such extreme performance.

But what is the trade off? Increasingly studies are showing PED's have side effect. While they may help a rider through a Tour what are the long term effects of running an engine at full gas?

 

[Caruut]

I have Polish on ignore, so I don't read his posts unless someone quotes them.
However, are we really disagreeing that the TdF can be done in a healthier manner being blood doped or otherwise vs. cleanly? Really?

I would think it is quite obvious, as much as it pains me to agree with Polish, that there are health benefits to doping under such extreme exertion. Our bodies are not designed for such hardship. Doping is a manner of hedging against the side effects of these endurance efforts.

I'm not saying that doping is justified or whatever, but I think we need to admit that the procedures or chemicals on the banned list can have some beneficial effects in races requiring such extreme performance.

What's certainly true is that racing against doped riders (or to within 15% of their time) is healthier with a well-administered program (of appropriate drugs and techniques) than racing against doped guys clean. It seems to me that the charges the trial is on are crazily ambiguous, and sort of lend themselves to being won by the doctors all too easily. Then they say "the doctors have won, we can't prosecute them any more, case closed".

 

[Polish]

Sorry Francois - but you highlighted the wrong word.
Bassons says "when you analysis it" and he follows that immediately with "doping responds to a need there too".

.

"IT" being the health benefits.
Actually, the word to be highlighted is "too"
"Too" as in "also"
Has health benefits also/too.

And Francois, I apologize for causing any extra mod duties because of my posts in this thread. Sorry.

 

[Andynonomous]

Although a clean rider trying to keep up with doped riders is likely hazardous to his health, doped riders are likely shortening their lives as well.

EPO, and Autologous blood doping enable you to push yourself beyond what your body can handle. Fatigue is a warning sign that you are pushing yourself too hard. Blood doping suppresses those warning signs.


http://www.drjohnm.org/2011/03/cw-that-exercise-has-an-upper-limit-makes-perfect-sense/

 

[frenchfry]

So what I conclude is that doping is healthier for pro cyclists, as long as they don't die early from same doping.

 

[Benotti69]

So what I conclude is that doping is healthier for pro cyclists, as long as they don't die early from same doping......

....and dont want to live long healthy lives.

 

[sniper]

well, doping is healthier in as far as it ensures you have a better income, and thus more money to buy better food and health care....

 

[Benotti69]

well, doping is healthier in as far as it ensures you have a better income, and thus more money to buy better food and health care....

Tell that to Landis, Papp and a host of others who have been caught, have no income and no knowledge of the damage they may have done to their bodies.

 

[sniper]

Tell that to Landis, Papp and a host of others who have been caught, have no income and no knowledge of the damage they may have done to their bodies.

well, yeah, getting caught or dropping half-dead on the road is pretty much where the fun ends.
"every advantage has a disadvantage", the Wise Johan Cruyff once said.

 

[Cloxxki]

Getting caught facilitating doping in Spain is even more unhealthy.
A man killed himself for that recently.

 

[learn to ride]

Contador, Basso and Scarponi summoned as witnesses in Puerto trial

Not sure if this is right thread to post this...

http://www.velonation.com/News/ID/1...ni-summoned-as-witnesses-in-Puerto-trial.aspx

 

[ElChingon]

Not sure if this is right thread to post this...

http://www.velonation.com/News/ID/1...ni-summoned-as-witnesses-in-Puerto-trial.aspx

They may as well add Valverde to the list, he's been indicted so he should also be a witness. Seeing as Basso and Valverde have done their time they should be able to let it rip with all the needed info. Contador and Scaponi, humm... they might plead the 5th if such a thing exists for them?

 

[thehog]

There are many stories we probably won't ever know, but boy I would love to know the doping program ONCE were on when they had the number 1 and 2 riders in the world (Zulle and Jalabert) racing for their team.

What was the concoction that allowed Jalabert to dominate from 1995-1997? How much EPO and/or blood transfusions was he taking to ride the way he did during that time?

And if my suspicions are correct, how in the world is he not dead?

Forget the EPO. Jalbert was the party drug king of France. Often he'd mix his PEDs with coke for extra effect.

 

[doolols]

Operación Puerto reportedly involved approximately 200 sportspeople, but the only ones who were identified were cyclists, who comprised a quarter of this total. There were persistent rumours that Spanish footballers, athletes, tennis players and others were involved, but the national federations of those sports did not dig deeper and the issue faded away for them.

"Nothing to see here" *whistles*

I do so hope it goes to trial. I'd love to see other sports implicated for a change.

 

[Mambo95]

They may as well add Valverde to the list, he's been indicted so he should also be a witness. Seeing as Basso and Valverde have done their time they should be able to let it rip with all the needed info. Contador and Scaponi, humm... they might plead the 5th if such a thing exists for them?

Scarponi served his time. He admitted he was involved.

 

[hrotha]

Scarponi served his time. He admitted he was involved.

In fact, of those mentioned Scarponi is the only one who admitted he doped. Basso admitted he "intended" to dope, Valverde hasn't admitted to anything, and Contador hasn't even been suspended. So yeah.

 

[nevada]

Getting that lot to tell the truth - dream on!

 

[sniper]

Why is Contador summoned to testify in the Fuentes case?

We all know it was a mere coincidence that his initials appeared on Fuentes' doping list. The RFEC (or was it King Carlos himself?) rectified that issue long ago. And it is outrageous to assume Contador doped when riding for Liberty Seguros, even though all other members are known to have been doped to the gills. I'm sure LaFlorecita agrees.

 

[Nilsson]

Why is Contador summoned to testify in the Fuentes case?

We all know it was a mere coincidence that his initials appeared on Fuentes' doping list. The RFEC (or was it King Carlos himself?) rectified that issue long ago. And it is outrageous to assume Contador doped when riding for Liberty Seguros, even though all other members are known to have been doped to the gills. I'm sure LaFlorecita agrees.

Maybe he is summoned by the defense? To say he has never seen anything?

 

[LaFlorecita]

Why is Contador summoned to testify in the Fuentes case?

We all know it was a mere coincidence that his initials appeared on Fuentes' doping list. The RFEC (or was it King Carlos himself?) rectified that issue long ago. And it is outrageous to assume Contador doped when riding for Liberty Seguros, even though all other members are known to have been doped to the gills. I'm sure LaFlorecita agrees.

Yup. You know me so well.

 

[LaFlorecita]

Why is Contador summoned to testify in the Fuentes case?

We all know it was a mere coincidence that his initials appeared on Fuentes' doping list. The RFEC (or was it King Carlos himself?) rectified that issue long ago. And it is outrageous to assume Contador doped when riding for Liberty Seguros, even though all other members are known to have been doped to the gills. I'm sure LaFlorecita agrees.

Btw, he can testify against Saiz.

 

[hrotha]

Btw, he can testify against Saiz.

He can't. He's said many times that he didn't see or hear anything, and that he was never offered any program.

 

[LaFlorecita]

He can't. He's said many times that he didn't see or hear anything, and that he was never offered any program.

Yeah, I know. And even if he did know anything, I'm sure he wouldn't say a thing anyway. He has stated that he sees Saiz as his second father. But what I was trying to make clear, is that he doesn't need to testify against Fuentes, but that he can testify against the other staff members as well.

 

[ferryman]

Yeah, I know. And even if he did know anything, I'm sure he wouldn't say a thing anyway. He has stated that he sees Saiz as his second father. But what I was trying to make clear, is that he doesn't need to testify against Fuentes, but that he can testify against the other staff members as well.

That wouldn't be a good idea under oath in a court of law.

 

[LaFlorecita]

That wouldn't be a good idea under oath in a court of law.

If you assume he's already been lying about everything...