Fuglsang and Lutsenko under investigation for cooperation with Michele Ferrari.

[GVFTA]

It's funny to imagine the thought process that would lead a professional cyclist to be like "I don't care about the rules, I'm going to go work with Dr. Ferrari because I want to be as good as possible, but I'm not going to dope, that's illegal".

Working with (being coached by/ receiving sporting advice) is illegal, not just doping.

 

[fmk_RoI]

A number of the American peleton are in contact with LA for various reasons - It's not just TVG - The association rule has its flaws and limitations and is a case of WADA over-stepping the mark,

Craddock and TVG don't appear to have actually breached the rule.

The problem is not the rule. The problem is the general lack of understanding of it. Especially among those denouncing it.

 

[fmk_RoI]

As if there is a better than Ferrari...

Cecco

 

[Zinoviev Letter]

This means diddly squat - You need at least some hard evidence like in Operation Aderlass case - Fuglsang could be taking 55 banned substances but an association with Dr Ferrari needs some other linking evidence.

No it doesn’t.

 

[hrotha]

Working with (being coached by/ receiving sporting advice) is illegal, not just doping.

Hence "I don't care about the rules".

 

[GVFTA]

Hence "I don't care about the rules".

I interpreted your hypothetical quote as to mean it's not illegal unless he dopes. My apologies.

 

[Koronin]

Here's this from Cycling Tips. They have a current pro who on occasion writes for them under the name The Secret Pro

The Secret Pro: Never buy a Ferrari - CyclingTips

I heard a rumour that the notorious Dr Ferrari was out of his lair. The news this week follows roughly what I heard then, though some details are different.

cyclingtips.com

 

[sir fly]

Cecco

They'd surely address him after Ferrari.
It's been the way before.

 

[42x16ss]

It's funny to imagine the thought process that would lead a professional cyclist to be like "I don't care about the rules, I'm going to go work with Dr. Ferrari because I want to be as good as possible, but I'm not going to dope, that's illegal".

On top of this, you can do it incognito over email, Skype etc. Ferrari is even very responsive on 53x12.com.

If you wanted to use him purely as a coaching resource it can be done very easily without meeting in person. Hundreds of coaches don't work with clients face to face.

 

[Eyeballs Out]

On top of this, you can do it incognito over email, Skype etc. Ferrari is even very responsive on 53x12.com.

If you wanted to use him purely as a coaching resource it can be done very easily without meeting in person. Hundreds of coaches don't work with clients face to face.

If you wanted to use him purely as a doping doc it can be done just as easily without meeting in person

 

[cnfdugo]

Both are subject to the prohibited association rule. So no difference. Except I suspect more people would recognise LA on a Honda 50 than would recognise Ferrari.

Lance is not on the Prohibited Association List.

 

[Sciatic]

I wish CN would try to be a little more accurate in its reporting the fallout from the Danish media reveal. In both the article title and the article itself, they state "Vinokourov picked holes in the reports," a phrase that suggests he found several faulty conclusions or errors in the reporting. But all Vino did was throw out some typical "how could this possibly be" hypotheticals.

CN basically went for clickbait, and "poked holes in" sounded good. He did indeed poke, but there's no indication of any holes.

 

[Danskebjerge]

CN basically went for clickbait, and "poked holes in" sounded good. He did indeed poke, but there's no indication of any holes.

Yeah, poking holes would be to show clear evidence that allegations are wrong.

 

[Kctrainor]

Cheating in cycling has been going on from the beginning. Doping, especially in euro cycling, for almost just as long. Since Armstrong was convicted, it has come to light that everyone and every team was doping. Of course no on else has had to pay any price for it but Armstrong. Mainly because no one else won so no one cares.
Lance Armstrong and his teams profected it. The team was the best in the world, the entire team. But....that proven profected drug using team is no where near as good or dominant as team S/I is today. The teams of years ago has one main drug abusing leader and a team full of not quite as good drug using soldiers. Team S/I has 3 or 4 members that can win any stage, any discipline, every stage. Obviously there are still drugs and cheating in cycling.
Vino was in the Armstrong era, he doped. Astana is his team. Nothing changes.

 

[yaco]

Craddock and TVG don't appear to have actually breached the rule.

The problem is not the rule. The problem is the general lack of understanding of it. Especially among those denouncing it.

Where have I stated that TVG and Craddock have breached the rule ? What I am stating is the association rule is hard to police and to obtain definitive evidence to prove such.

 

[yaco]

No it doesn’t.

The hard evidence is things like proof that Dr Ferrari has doping products, proof of orders being placed by Dr Ferrari for banned substances or by Fuglsang or sms, whats app messages etc - Without information like this its a case of two people having a coffee or even a coffee ride.

 

[Kctrainor]

Micheal Rasmussen was Armstrong era too. Let's put the records in cycling back to the way they were. Everyone was cheating then, so it was fair. Plus it was way more interesting when you had 6 guys from 6 teams battling it out. My question is if Fulsang did or is doping, how come he wasn't or isn't as good as 3/4 of team S/I riders.

 

[hrotha]

Of course no on else has had to pay any price for it but Armstrong. Mainly because no one else won so no one cares

What? The majority of Armstrong's rivals had already been busted by the time Armstrong finally had to face the music.

 

[Kctrainor]

What price did any of them pay. Lifetime bans.

 

[Kctrainor]

The point is everyone was cheating so it was fair. Example is pro body building. Someone not using steroids could try to make it, but they won't. It's an unwritten rule. Cycling was too.

 

[Kctrainor]

Have to say it was much more fun and interesting to watch. 5 or 6 guys battling it out. Ullrich, Vino, basso, beloki, armstrong, mayo. All dominant drug users. Now its 5 5 or 6 guys from team S/I. All dominant clean cyclists. Lmao

 

[Koronin]

There are other reasons for LA being given the lifetime ban. The rest were given the regular ban that was in effect during that time. Also remember that different countries have different rules on doping as well. Some stronger than others. Spain didn't even have any anti-doping laws until 2012 and we've basically just learned that their anti-doping laws are as weak as they can get and still have big time sports events in their country. The majority of riders who have been given bans never returned to the same level they were at before their bans.

 

[yaco]

There are other reasons for LA being given the lifetime ban. The rest were given the regular ban that was in effect during that time. Also remember that different countries have different rules on doping as well. Some stronger than others. Spain didn't even have any anti-doping laws until 2012 and we've basically just learned that their anti-doping laws are as weak as they can get and still have big time sports events in their country. The majority of riders who have been given bans never returned to the same level they were at before their bans.

I admire Armstrong - Could have accepted a plea bargain with USADA in which he would have received a two year ban and therefore only lost results for two years.

 

[spalco]

Kctrainor: i don't even want to quote you, those are old and tired arguments that have been disproved many times. No, not every one was doping, no not everyone was doping to the same extent, no there was no level playing field, no everyone doping did not make it 'fair', no he would not have been the strongest if everyone had been clean too, no armstrong was not a *** victim, he was not doing what everyone else was, there were still honest people being excluded from the sport, doping has different effeciency on different people, etc

If you need more info on any of these points read older threads in the clinic.

 

[fmk_RoI]

Both are subject to the prohibited association rule.

Lance is not on the Prohibited Association List

Are you trying to suggest LA is not, as I said, subject to the prohibited association rule?