Fuglsang and Lutsenko under investigation for cooperation with Michele Ferrari.

[roundabout]

I disagree with the notion that Fuglsang has suddenly become a top gt rider, he only has one top 10 finish in a gt and that was in 2013. Yes, he suddenly improved, but in the races that always suited him more, shorter stage races and hard one day races. That said, last year he was the most impressive road cyclist of the spring season. With Lutsenko it is also mainly results in shorter stage races and one day races, but some of his performances are really out of the blue, mainly him dominating 2 editions of the Tour of Oman and also finishing first and second on the MTF and finishing top 10 in the Dauphine and top 20 in the Tour while being a domestique.

I searched for GT and grand tour in this thread and can't find the notion that you disagree with.

And regardless of what races suited him more, an improvement at age 32 after 8 pro seasons is not normal.

By the numbers

top-5 in major shorter stage races

2009-2016 - 3
2017-2019 - 6

best finish in a major short stage race

2009-2016 - 3rd
2017-2019 - 2x1st, 3 times better finish than the best finish previously

1-day races best finish

2009-2016 - 2x4th
2019 alone - 5 results equal or better than 4th

yes, he has an Olympic silver, but some fortune played a part in that unlike his 2019 1-day rides where he was arguably among the very strongest in each 1-day race he did in the spring

 

[Danskebjerge]

top-5 in major shorter stage races

2009-2016 - 3
2017-2019 - 6

best finish in a major short stage race

2009-2016 - 3rd
2017-2019 - 2x1st, 3 times better finish than the best finish previously

1-day races best finish

2009-2016 - 2x4th
2019 alone - 5 results equal or better than 4th

yes, he has an Olympic silver, but some fortune played a part in that unlike his 2019 1-day rides where he was arguably among the very strongest in each 1-day race he did in the spring

But if you define the improvement as something that happened already in 2017, then what about the fact that Fuglsang stopped his collaboration with coach Rune Larsen (who he has worked with for many years) at the end of 2018? It would be more logical to see his 2019 successes as a result of "new methods" that differ from the ones he used in the 2018 season and before.

 

[DirtyWorks]

Thirty-something rider, suddenly wins a monument and more and the UCI won't open a case..

He's doping.

Best wishes to all.

 

[yaco]

You haven't answered the question: have you actually read the rule?

Yes - I have read the rule - I wouldn't enter the discussion without reading the rule.

 

[Mayomaniac]

I searched for GT and grand tour in this thread and can't find the notion that you disagree with.

And regardless of what races suited him more, an improvement at age 32 after 8 pro seasons is not normal.

By the numbers

top-5 in major shorter stage races

2009-2016 - 3
2017-2019 - 6

best finish in a major short stage race

2009-2016 - 3rd
2017-2019 - 2x1st, 3 times better finish than the best finish previously

1-day races best finish

2009-2016 - 2x4th
2019 alone - 5 results equal or better than 4th

yes, he has an Olympic silver, but some fortune played a part in that unlike his 2019 1-day rides where he was arguably among the very strongest in each 1-day race he did in the spring

My bad, it was about him becoming a top gc rider and that made me mainly think about gts.

 

[staubsauger]

Wait, wait, wait. Riis was using Prozac? For what? Interesting.

"The pills made me feel much more positive, which allowed me to see possibilities rather than limitations. This really seemed to help at stage races, which can be very stressful mentally, and where maintaining a positive frame of mind could really help."

Riis had to be flipped around like a pancake at night to keep his blood circulating. Prozac indeed might've been essential to focus on possibilities and benefits of his EPO usage, rather than being scared to die!

 

[roundabout]

But if you define the improvement as something that happened already in 2017, then what about the fact that Fuglsang stopped his collaboration with coach Rune Larsen (who he has worked with for many years) at the end of 2018? It would be more logical to see his 2019 successes as a result of "new methods" that differ from the ones he used in the 2018 season and before.

For me something had already happened in 2017, regardless of who was the coach at the time. His Dauphine performance was quite a surprise for me.

 

[Danskebjerge]

For me something had already happened in 2017, regardless of who was the coach at the time. His Dauphine performance was quite a surprise for me.

His best results in 2017:
1st Overall Critérium du Dauphiné, 3rd Overall Tour of Almaty, 6th Overall Volta a la Comunitat Valenciana

Something must have been wrong with his drugs?

 

[proffate]

"The pills made me feel much more positive, which allowed me to see possibilities rather than limitations. This really seemed to help at stage races, which can be very stressful mentally, and where maintaining a positive frame of mind could really help."

Riis had to be flipped around like a pancake at night to keep his blood circulating. Prozac indeed might've been essential to focus on possibilities and benefits of his EPO usage, rather than being scared to die!

Pro cycling is painful and depressing. Prozac and tramadol are as important as sugar and electrolytes.

 

[roundabout]

His best results in 2017:
1st Overall Critérium du Dauphiné, 3rd Overall Tour of Almaty, 6th Overall Volta a la Comunitat Valenciana

Something must have been wrong with his drugs?

He won the Dauphine. A WT stage race. By being the best climber. 2 things that have never happened before.

 

[Bolder]

It's a mixed bag that the report got leaked. As I suggested it was simply what it was: Someone heard/said something, and it was commissioned to try to determine whether it was true/false. I gather that whatever evidence was in it was not actionable or was circumstantial. Ideally it would have never seen the light of day.

OTOH, as noted, it will keep a few riders on their toes this season.

 

[del1962]

He won the Dauphine. A WT stage race. By being the best climber. 2 things that have never happened before.

I may be wrong but wasn't Porte the best climber in that race, where Froome was trolling him

 

[Koronin]

It's a mixed bag that the report got leaked. As I suggested it was simply what it was: Someone heard/said something, and it was commissioned to try to determine whether it was true/false. I gather that whatever evidence was in it was not actionable or was circumstantial. Ideally it would have never seen the light of day.

OTOH, as noted, it will keep a few riders on their toes this season.

Maybe it's serving as a warning that they are paying attention? However, I agree with what has basically been said that normally this wouldn't have ever been known outside a handful of people who were looking into it.

 

[Danskebjerge]

Apparently, somebody has figured out who the main source of the Fuglsang accusations is.

 

[Rollthedice]

Apparently, somebody has figured out who the main source of the Fuglsang accusations is.

A neighbour annoyed by the loud music played at inappropiate hours coming from Birdsong's house?

 

[staubsauger]

OTOH, as noted, it will keep a few riders on their toes this season.

Who knows

Rasmussen got blacklisted after he tricked the system in order to win the 2007 Tour of France.

Bernhard Kohl certainly would've gotten covered up if he never follows the instruction to turn it down and wins the yellow jersey in 2008!

 

[cnfdugo]

Are you trying to suggest LA is not, as I said, subject to the prohibited association rule?

Indeed, Lance is not on the list.

 

[fmk_RoI]

Indeed, Lance is not on the list.

Thank you for proving my point that people simply don't understand the rule.

Here's someone who has gone to the bother of looking at the list, seeing it doesn't have LA's name in it and then sought to demonstrated their own inability to understand the opening paragraph quoted from here:

The Prohibited Association List includes the name, nationality and end date of the disqualifying status of Athlete Support Personnel who have committed anti-doping rule violations. All Athletes are prohibited from associating with any such Athlete Support Personnel pursuant to Article 2.10 of the Code. However, Athletes should be aware that they are also prohibited from associating with any Athlete or other Person who is currently serving a period of ineligibility, and who has, while ineligible, acted as an Athlete Support Person.

LA is subject to the prohibited association rule. And of course his name would not appear on a list of support personnel. He was sanctioned as an athlete.

 

[Joelsim]

Apparently, somebody has figured out who the main source of the Fuglsang accusations is.

Who?

 

[Danskebjerge]

Who?

Philippe Gilbert - who might have thought to have seen something that he didn't really see.

The source seems reliable (as reliable as speculation can be, I guess).

 

[delgado]

Bernhard Kohl certainly would've gotten covered up if he never follows the instruction to turn it down and wins the yellow jersey in 2008!

could you rephrase/clarify that please, I'm interested in what you are saying. Thanks.

 

[ppanther92]

could you rephrase/clarify that please, I'm interested in what you are saying. Thanks.

I guess, if you saw what Schuhmacher did in week 3 and combine that with the fact that Kohl didn't use his 2nd rest day blood bag, while still only finishing a little bit over 1 minute behind Sastre in the GC, it is not too far fetched that he would have been the favourite if he went all-in. Being a Tour winner may have gave him some kind of special standing and maybe he would not have been poped because UCI couldn't afford 3 Tours in a row with the yellow jersey going out.

But impossible to say.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

Philippe Gilbert - who might have thought to have seen something that he didn't really see.

The source seems reliable (as reliable as speculation can be, I guess).

So your source is about as credible as the not so credible source your source claims not to be credible? Hm... Interesting.

 

[fmk_RoI]

Being a Tour winner may have gave him some kind of special standing and maybe he would not have been poped because UCI couldn't afford 3 Tours in a row with the yellow jersey going out.

The CERA testing at the 2008 Tour - and the retests that caught Kohl - were ASO/AFLD, not UCI. Which is a bit inconvenient where this conspiracy theory is concerned.

 

[staubsauger]

The CERA testing at the 2008 Tour - and the retests that caught Kohl - were ASO/AFLD, not UCI. Which is a bit inconvenient where this conspiracy theory is concerned.

Well the rumor back then actually was that ASO / AFLD told him to turn it down, because it had become too obvious!

The rumor was spread on this forum though...