Fuglsang and Lutsenko under investigation for cooperation with Michele Ferrari.

[fmk_RoI]

What I am stating is the association rule is hard to police and to obtain definitive evidence to prove such.

The speed limit rule is hard to police and breaches difficult to prove.

 

[fmk_RoI]

The hard evidence is things like proof that Dr Ferrari has doping products, proof of orders being placed by Dr Ferrari for banned substances or by Fuglsang or sms, whats app messages etc - Without information like this its a case of two people having a coffee or even a coffee ride.

Have you actually read the rule?

 

[ppanther92]

Micheal Rasmussen was Armstrong era too. Let's put the records in cycling back to the way they were. Everyone was cheating then, so it was fair. Plus it was way more interesting when you had 6 guys from 6 teams battling it out. My question is if Fulsang did or is doping, how come he wasn't or isn't as good as 3/4 of team S/I riders.

How was it more interesting when you knew before the race that Armstrong will win it with 5-10 minutes?

 

[42x16ss]

Kctrainor: i don't even want to quote you, those are old and tired arguments that have been disproved many times. No, not every one was doping, no not everyone was doping to the same extent, no there was no level playing field, no everyone doping did not make it 'fair', no he would not have been the strongest if everyone had been clean too, no armstrong was not a *** victim, he was not doing what everyone else was, there were still honest people being excluded from the sport, doping has different effeciency on different people, etc

If you need more info on any of these points read older threads in the clinic.

There weren't many who didn't. Even guys like White and Van Sevenant doped.

Stop holding on to this fantasy that Wigans, Froome etc are clean.

I do agree that Armstrong earned his life ban several times over though

 

[spalco]

There weren't many who didn't. Even guys like White and Van Sevenant doped.

Stop holding on to this fantasy that Wigans, Froome etc are clean.

I do agree that Armstrong earned his life ban several times over though

We're not in disagreement, I have no illusions about any of that.

 

[F_Cance]

Cycling Anti-Doping Foundation (CADF)

Welcome to the Cycling Anti-Doping Foundation (CADF) website. The role of the CADF is to manage the anti-doping programme on behalf of the Union Cycliste Internationale (UCI). Created in 2008, the CADF is a non-profit foundation under Swiss law that became fully independent and ISO certified in...

www.cadf.ch

Astana getting away with it once again.

 

[Danskebjerge]

Cycling Anti-Doping Foundation (CADF)

Welcome to the Cycling Anti-Doping Foundation (CADF) website. The role of the CADF is to manage the anti-doping programme on behalf of the Union Cycliste Internationale (UCI). Created in 2008, the CADF is a non-profit foundation under Swiss law that became fully independent and ISO certified in...

www.cadf.ch

Astana getting away with it once again.

All as expected. It was a working paper, and CADF's role in doping investigations has changed since then. So it could hardly be in any other way.

 

[staubsauger]

Tar me, but cycling is a better place with Ferrari still being around. That doctor is an absolute expert. None of his riders, except Furlan who constantly overdosed EPO and ended-up with thrombosis & Riis who loaded so much prozac that he became depressed without the high serotonine level kinda like Naomi Campbell who sniffed too much coke, none of Ferrari's clients ever faced serious health issues. Compare that to the dangerous practices of Eufemiano & Yolanda Fuentes. The way Sky's practices emaciates an athletes body. Leinders let Rasmussen experiment with hemopure on his own and you have to conclude that it's good news that Ferrari still takes care of athletes health while providing them with doping expertise.

Regarding Fuglsang & Astana hopefully this revelation means that the Dane flies a bit under the radar this season to just fully focus on the last 10-12 days of the 2020 Giro d'Italia which seems to be tailor made to birdsongs capabilities with this year's corsa rosa effectively being a hard one week race! Astana went totally shameless in Italy before in 2015 as someone rightfully mentioned.

 

[F_Cance]

At least they have to be a bit more careful now, so hopefully they tone it down a bit.

 

[18-Valve. (pithy)]

All as expected. It was a working paper, and CADF's role in doping investigations has changed since then. So it could hardly be in any other way.

Yeah. Also, the media statement is consistent with CADF having leaked the report themselves.

 

[Escarabajo]

Cycling Anti-Doping Foundation (CADF)

Welcome to the Cycling Anti-Doping Foundation (CADF) website. The role of the CADF is to manage the anti-doping programme on behalf of the Union Cycliste Internationale (UCI). Created in 2008, the CADF is a non-profit foundation under Swiss law that became fully independent and ISO certified in...

www.cadf.ch

Astana getting away with it once again.

But the damage is somewhat done. Especially on Fuglsang. His image, if it wasn't already suspicious, is a bit tarnished.

 

[nayr497]

I'm going to start using "I contest that I did" when my wife accuses me of not helping out enough around the house Or changing enough baby diapers!

 

[nayr497]

Wait, wait, wait. Riis was using Prozac? For what? Interesting.

 

[yaco]

Have you actually read the rule?

Strange that CADF has issued a press release stating that Fuglsang and Lutsenko have no case to answer - So no case of association or heaven forbid doping were proven - Maybe CADF need to learn the rules.

 

[Danskebjerge]

Strange that CADF has issued a press release stating that Fuglsang and Lutsenko have no case to answer - So no case of association or heaven forbid doping were proven - Maybe CADF need to learn the rules.

What rules do they need to learn?

 

[Scatto]

They'd surely address him after Ferrari.
It's been the way before.

I wouldn't be surprised if the whistleblowers mixed up Ferrari and Cecchini. The last one has always ridden along or motorpaced his clients. The statements are also a joke only Russian apparatchiks and perhaps the corrupt ASO/UCI want to believe.

As long as known dopers like Riis, Vinokourov, Lefevre, Van der Poel, Roodhooft and the like are in the sport, and until there is a truth commission, you can be sure the peloton is still juiced up. Yet now that they've got eyes on them, I suspect a bad season for Lutsenko and Fuglsang.

 

[Sciatic]

I would keep in mind that the CADF release does not say the findings in the report are untrue or incorrect. Rather they say the committee “has not submitted” the report to UCI. There could be a number of reasons for that (not the correct channel, not enough corroborating evidence), and if they really wanted to say “we found these charges to be false” they would have said that more directly.
But maybe there’s something lost in translation that I’m no getting?

 

[fmk_RoI]

But the damage is somewhat done. Especially on Fuglsang. His image, if it wasn't already suspicious, is a bit tarnished.

A bit tarnished? No amount of Brasso will undo this. So maybe some good has come from the CADF's fight with the UCI. A few more spats like this and who knows what we'll learn.

 

[fmk_RoI]

Wait, wait, wait. Riis was using Prozac? For what? Interesting.

As a PED. It's in his book. He talks about how some stuff worked and some stuff didn't.

 

[fmk_RoI]

Strange that CADF has issued a press release stating that Fuglsang and Lutsenko have no case to answer - So no case of association or heaven forbid doping were proven - Maybe CADF need to learn the rules.

You haven't answered the question: have you actually read the rule?

 

[42x16ss]

Tar me, but cycling is a better place with Ferrari still being around. That doctor is an absolute expert. None of his riders, except Furlan who constantly overdosed EPO and ended-up with thrombosis & Riis who loaded so much prozac that he became depressed without the high serotonine level kinda like Naomi Campbell who sniffed too much coke, none of Ferrari's clients ever faced serious health issues. Compare that to the dangerous practices of Eufemiano & Yolanda Fuentes. The way Sky's practices emaciates an athletes body. Leinders let Rasmussen experiment with hemopure on his own and you have to conclude that it's good news that Ferrari still takes care of athletes health while providing them with doping expertise.

Regarding Fuglsang & Astana hopefully this revelation means that the Dane flies a bit under the radar this season to just fully focus on the last 10-12 days of the 2020 Giro d'Italia which seems to be tailor made to birdsongs capabilities with this year's corsa rosa effectively being a hard one week race! Astana went totally shameless in Italy before in 2015 as someone rightfully mentioned.

Interesting take, especially when you look at the likes of Manzano, Ricco, Hamilton and others who had seriously bad experiences.

As for Sky, Wigans and Froome's body composition must be taking a toll.

 

[Mayomaniac]

I disagree with the notion that Fuglsang has suddenly become a top gt rider, he only has one top 10 finish in a gt and that was in 2013. Yes, he suddenly improved, but in the races that always suited him more, shorter stage races and hard one day races. That said, last year he was the most impressive road cyclist of the spring season. With Lutsenko it is also mainly results in shorter stage races and one day races, but some of his performances are really out of the blue, mainly him dominating 2 editions of the Tour of Oman and also finishing first and second on the MTF and finishing top 10 in the Dauphine and top 20 in the Tour while being a domestique.

 

[red_flanders]

The point is everyone was cheating so it was fair. Example is pro body building. Someone not using steroids could try to make it, but they won't. It's an unwritten rule. Cycling was too.

Take it easy, Lance.

 

[Danskebjerge]

I disagree with the notion that Fuglsang has suddenly become a top gt rider, he only has one top 10 finish in a gt and that was in 2013. Yes, he suddenly improved, but in the races that always suited him more, shorter stage races and hard one day races. That said, last year he was the most impressive road cyclist of the spring season. With Lutsenko it is also mainly results in shorter stage races and one day races, but some of his performances are really out of the blue, mainly him dominating 2 editions of the Tour of Oman and also finishing first and second on the MTF and finishing top 10 in the Dauphine and top 20 in the Tour while being a domestique.

Also, 2019 was a season where Fuglsang avoided crashes and injuries - he has had his fair share of those over the years. And he went more for the one day races in 2019 than he has previously done (despite many people suggesting he should have done it earlier, especially after his silver medal in Rio). Those two factors alone can explain a significant part of his good results last year.

 

[Koronin]

I'm going to start using "I contest that I did" when my wife accuses me of not helping out enough around the house Or changing enough baby diapers!

I'm not sure that will work out very well.