Garmin biggest cowards in today peloton

[Mrs John Murphy]

Much of his reasoning, at least in public, was that this will make Haussler stronger in the early 2012 season.

So he can be fit and ready to 'ride for third'? or is this to target the all important TDU?

To be fair though to HH, he's never been right since Frodo deliberately took him out in the TDS last year.

 

[Zinoviev Letter]

So he can be fit and ready to 'ride for third'?

Maybe more teams should try riding for third because it's apparently helped Garmin rack up 27 wins so far this year.

 

[Mrs John Murphy]

Maybe more teams should try riding for third because it's apparently helped Garmin rack up 27 wins so far this year.

And? What was Frodo's comment about **** little races?

 

[Zinoviev Letter]

And? What was Frodo's comment about **** little races?

I'd say quite a few teams wouldn't mind winning some **** little races like Paris Roubaix and stages at all three Grand Tours.

 

[Mrs John Murphy]

With a team as stacked as they are they should win a hell of a lot more than they do. If Garmin wasn't tactically *** they might actually we a lot more.

27 wins out of how many days racing? A team with the likes of Hushovd, Farrar, Haussler, CVV, Le Mevel, Millar, RH ought to be winning a hell of a lot more.

 

[Zinoviev Letter]

With a team as stacked as they are they should win a hell of a lot more than they do. If Garmin wasn't tactically *** they might actually we a lot more.

27 wins out of how many days racing? A team with the likes of Hushovd, Farrar, Haussler, CVV, Le Mevel, Millar, RH ought to be winning a hell of a lot more.

Just exactly how many wins do you think most big teams manage a year? 27 is a huge number of wins by any standard bar that of HTC.

Garmin have a good roster, but they don't have anyone who could reasonably hope for a Grand Tour podium this year. They have a fast sprinter, but by no means the fastest. They have good time triallists, but not one of the two who are clearly the best. They aren't any more "stacked" than a bunch of other teams, and they are considerably less so than the likes of Liquigas or HTC. I mean, I like Christophe Le Mevel, but he's hardly the gold standard.

 

[hrotha]

Just exactly how many wins do you think most big teams manage a year? 27 is a huge number of wins by any standard bar that of HTC.

In fact, only HTC and RadioSharck have more wins this season.

 

[Escarabajo]

And Vaughters has shown what a mastermind he is for picking Haussler in the Vuelta team.

Who cares Pistolero. He made a business move so live with it. Just let it go.

 

[Mrs John Murphy]

They'd probably win more if they didn't do things like chase down breaks in which they have a rider or decide to ride for third. Which is the point. Saying they've won this 27 times is a sophist argument as we are talking about the races they haven't won thanks to poor tactical decisions.

Hrotha - where did RS manage to win so often? HTC makes sense but RS

 

[Zinoviev Letter]

They'd probably win more if they didn't do things like chase down breaks in which they have a rider or decide to ride for third. Which is the point. Saying they've won this 27 times is a sophist argument as we are talking about the races they haven't won thanks to poor tactical decisions.

Given that they win more often than almost everyone else, despite not having the best rider in any particular field, professional cycling as a whole must just be one sea of dismal incompetence.

Do Garmin make tactical errors? Of course they do. Cycling is a fluid, unpredictable sport. Nobody gets all of the calls right. But Garmin have over achieved this year as compared to the talent level of their roster, which indicates that they aren't quite the tactical incompetents you see them as.

Hrotha - where did RS manage to win so often? HTC makes sense but RS

They racked up a load of wins in shorter stage races, particularly but not only in the US.

 

[hrotha]

That, plus they have an army of youngsters winning ITTs in the 2.1 races.

 

[Mrs John Murphy]

professional cycling as a whole must just be one sea of dismal incompetence.

Yes it is more often than not.

 

[Zinoviev Letter]

Yes it is more often than not.

You should offer your services as a DS to a few teams. Presumably at least one of them will have a member of staff capable of recognising your greater tactical expertise.

 

[Mrs John Murphy]

Nah, shouting at people isn't my thing.

 

[Mambo95]

Well on CQ Ranking, they're the No. 1 team (with a medium sized budget), so they must be doing something right.

 

[Mrs John Murphy]

For what they are worth the UCI have them 9th

1 LEOPARD TREK 949
2 BMC RACING TEAM 874
3 OMEGA PHARMA-LOTTO 855
4 HTC-HIGHROAD 764
5 SKY PROCYCLING 762
6 LAMPRE - ISD 729
7 SAXO BANK SUNGARD 637
8 TEAM RADIOSHACK 609
9 TEAM GARMIN-CERVELO 598
10 LIQUIGAS-CANNONDALE 574
11 RABOBANK CYCLING TEAM 505

 

[Astana1]

Garmin needs a dominant GC type rider that can win a stage race or two each season.

 

[greenedge]

They are doing ok, pity Thor is not riding the Vuelta but Martin got them a stage.

 

[goggalor]

Garmin needs a dominant GC type rider that can win a stage race or two each season.

They need to stop riding for top tens for less talented riders. That's been their attitude since 2008, especially in the grand tours. I think many of the guys who came over from Cervelo Test Team struggled to understand that mindset.

 

[Astana1]

They need to stop riding for top tens for less talented riders. That's been their attitude since 2008, especially in the grand tours. I think many of the guys who came over from Cervelo Test Team struggled to understand that mindset.

I like Garmin. But I too wonder WTF they are thinking at times. They also experience alot of friction when they have "stars" riding for them.

I think Garmin will perpetually be a team for quality role players that over achieve simply because those are the type of guys that buy into JV's philosophy. They also make a concerted effort to develop their talent. They want their Continental Squad to feed the WorldTour Squad. These are some of the principal reasons why I like this team.

Garmin's culture is all about team first, individual second. I am not sure that jives with the expectations of the very top echelon type riders

Garmin made Wiggo a star. I don't think anyone else would have gone in that direction with Wiggo. I don't believe it was money and national pride that made him want to move, I think he didn't have confidence in the team.

Thor obviously didn't appreciate JV's philosophy.

The only star they have that seems to be happy is Tyler. But he is a borderline star IMO. He's kind of star for the underdogs.

 

[Zinoviev Letter]

They need to stop riding for top tens for less talented riders. That's been their attitude since 2008, especially in the grand tours. I think many of the guys who came over from Cervelo Test Team struggled to understand that mindset.

What should they do instead? Ride for Grand Tour wins or podiums with riders who aren't capable of it? There's a limited supply of such riders and most teams don't have one, let alone enough to cover each GT.

Garmin's first priority in every GT is to win sprint or TT stages, because they have riders capable of winning those. On other stages they try to get someone in the break and try to protect whoever they have for GC, aiming for a place between 4 and 10. Dan Martin is the only rider they have who is capable of winning a mountain stage without being in a long break, and he's young and thus far inconsistent.

 

[9000ft]

If Garmin riders were GC contenders for GT there would be an endless number of posts here about what filthy cheaters/dopers they are.

Tough crowd here. Not much meets the standard for what is successful, honorable, or whatever it is that they're looking for.

 

[perico]

I feel for Garmin because they have had 2 guys who had the talent to be high GC guys, but is now likely too old (VdV) and the other is an Eskimo (and also pretty elderly).

The problem is that ever since 2008, Vande Velde couldn't stay upright for an entire season. A healthy VdV would've contended for Lance's 3rd place that year... that he still finished in the Top 10 that year with cracked vertebrae was amazing unto itself. Now, it's more than likely that he'll never reach his potential because time is no longer on his side. This year was probably his last shot at a high GC in a GT... and he kept falling off.

Danielson, OTOH, who knows... there's no arguing the guy has some talent, but it may be too late for him as well, and I don't think he's a Top 3 or 4 at the tour type anyways. Could've been another Hampsten if he hadn't been 1/4 Eskimo and had learned how to ride in a pack before the age of 28. Besides, he's not young anymore either. We'll have to see.

 

[ImmaculateKadence]

When TJVG signs with them their aspirations will change.

 

[kielbasa]

I feel for Garmin because they have had 2 guys who had the talent to be high GC guys, but is now likely too old (VdV) and the other is an Eskimo (and also pretty elderly).

The problem is that ever since 2008, Vande Velde couldn't stay upright for an entire season. A healthy VdV would've contended for Lance's 3rd place that year... that he still finished in the Top 10 that year with cracked vertebrae was amazing unto itself. Now, it's more than likely that he'll never reach his potential because time is no longer on his side. This year was probably his last shot at a high GC in a GT... and he kept falling off.

Danielson, OTOH, who knows... there's no arguing the guy has some talent, but it may be too late for him as well, and I don't think he's a Top 3 or 4 at the tour type anyways. Could've been another Hampsten if he hadn't been 1/4 Eskimo and had learned how to ride in a pack before the age of 28. Besides, he's not young anymore either. We'll have to see.

You mean, you don't consider USAPCC the 4th grand tour?! If VdV finished Le Tour, he probably wouldn't have podiumed in Colorado.