Garmin Cervelo Dismiss Matt White

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Feb 21, 2010
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Granville57 said:
You raised this earlier, and I agree. It seems like the type of thing that if JV had wanted to get rid of Steffen (for the sake of argument only) than this would've been plenty justification. And if Howe was really trying to suppres all this, how could he have possibly counted on Steffen or JV not picking up on Del Moral's name on the pdf in the first place? :confused:

Yes. Agree.

So, just to add to this perhaps White, who has been around Steffen for years, knows he'll never notice the name Del Moral on the document...
 
Aug 13, 2009
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Just to be clear on Prentice. Perhaps he missed the Del Moral name but NO WAY he would turn the other way on doping. I cannot imagine that he would not speak out if he saw something at Garmin.
 
Oct 25, 2010
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BroDeal said:
More like when Lowe did not get paid for December, he began thinking of ways that Slipstream had damaged him, like, "Mommy, they made me ride too much and damaged my health." Instead of just going after December's wages, they overplayed their hand by asking for an unrealistic amount that ultimately caused the blow up. Maybe if they had asked for 150% of December's wages then none of this would have happened.

Hardie may not have thought about how stabbing White in the back would affect the rest of Lowe's career.

Another excellent opinion, in my opinion. Lowe has a great future riding Gran Fondos in Italy for money.
 
Oct 25, 2010
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Race Radio said:
Just to be clear on Prentice. Perhaps he missed the Del Moral name but NO WAY he would turn the other way on doping. I cannot imagine that he would not speak out if he saw something at Garmin.

I'm just blown-away that Steffen would not notice this PDF. Docs are naturally curious of other docs that also do what they do. It's all very weird. Prentice was one of the first (if not THE first) to expose shenanigans at USPS (on the record). If you says he's cool, then I'll believe it.
 
Good write-up, as we suspected there is more to the story, here comes Tuft!
Vaughters said Tuft, who was also photographed aboard a Scott bicycle, is currently negotiating with Slipstream over unpaid 2010 bonuses, and attributed Tuft’s December salary payment to “clerical error.”

Really JV ?!
 
Yep, unfortunately that's not a movie.

You'd think they would have double-checked the guys they were going to cut loose, JV is making this up as he goes along, Garmin and Cervelo must be breathing down his back. Like Paddy would say, whether JV is guilty or not, he's hurt the Garmin/Cervelo/Slipstream image.
 
Oct 25, 2009
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mewmewmew13 said:
"JV is making this up as he goes along"

Haha...that is kinda the impression that I was getting here too! He needs to have some objective input to get back on track here.

It is called damage control. Perhaps they should be called Slipshod Sports as both the front and now back office are conveniently careless when it comes to rationalising the inexplicable.
 
Jan 20, 2011
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http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/millar-garmin-cervelo-is-like-a-hit-squad-of-talent said:
Millar was instrumental in bringing White to the team in 2008, persuading the Australian to hang up his wheels and become a directeur sportif. White could have continued his racing career for at least one year at that point but Millar, along with Jonathan Vaughters, singled him out as management material. However, White&#8217]
How interesting....
 
Mar 13, 2009
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L'arriviste said:
That's because he's saying that, with that PDF in their Inbox, Vaughters and the Slipstream doc both had notice of De Moral's involvement and said nada. So they can't now shout about a contractual violation on that particular issue when they both had notice.

What probably happened is that Slipstream said to Lowe you're out for these reasons 1) riding a Scott, 2) seeing an unauthorised doc ... (etc) And Hardie is just answering each point and asking for a settlement. As blackcat says, it isn't blackmail, it's deal brokering.

hmmm, 2009 May/June JV sent Contador a couple of Felts. Did Fran measure him up and he go out for a ride?

Come on, Lowe was never a marketing face for the team nor the bike brand. JV ruling the feifdom.
 
Feb 21, 2010
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webvan said:
Good write-up, as we suspected there is more to the story, here comes Tuft!

Really JV ?!


Are these the same clerical errors that led to key staff members 'overlooking" the name of the practice and physician attending to one of their riders?

I can see a one-time mistake. Sure. Those things happen. Noticing them and addressing them right away in a forthright manner stems the negative fall-out. Precisely what did not happen here.

But now we see there were two oversights, with nothing done for nearly a year and a half, and further rattlings about JV/Prentice communicating vague references to a Doctor in Valencia amongst themselves...

Funny, in light of this all, now reading the Landis/Kimmage piece and Landis (written in late 2010) referring to Landis hiring Del Moral for his Phonak transfusion program:

"How did you manage your doping in ’05? The Wall St Journal piece said: Mister Landis said he hired a Spanish doctor in Valencia to take transfusions and paid one person $10,000 to make two separate deliveries of half-litre bags of blood during the 2005 Tour de France.

In 2004, the Postal Service got rid of Luis Garcia Del Moral, who was the team doctor, and I knew that he was often in charge of the logistics of doing transfusions and things like that, so I just contacted him and asked if he would do it for me. So I paid him to do it.



Del Moral?

Yeah.



You paid Del Moral?

Yeah.



Did that ‘work’?

Did it work? Yeah, the reason that I was not as good in 2005 as I was in 2004 or 2006 was because I had surgery that winter and wasn’t walking for weeks and it took a while to get back in shape. So drugs or no drugs weren’t going to change that. I did the same thing in 2004 and 2005 and 2006; the one variable was that I had my hip issues to deal with and therapy and things like that. I mean, in all of the Tours I did exactly the same amount of blood (transfusing) except the first one (2002); the first one I did one transfusion which is 500 millilitres and the next four I did 1000 militaries each, three separate times in 2006, because it was easier to maintain the continuous blood parameters that were being checked. But it ended up being the same total volume that I added so…yeah, Del Moral, in spite of denying that he ever saw any doping, like everybody does, that was all he really did."


I wonder what it would take for a journalist to press Slipstream to reveal the money trail associated with Lowe's visits to Del Moral? I wonder if that money trail would further support a contention that JV/Steffen had full knowledge and lent, at minimum, tacit support or acknowledgement of working with the tainted good Doctor?

For Slipstream, it will be these details they must explain if they expect the community of fans and supporters to continue to offer them the benefit of the doubt going forward. So far we see articles with enticing headlines like "Vaughters Baffled By Lowe Situation"... seriously? Simply put, all headlines moving forward should simply state "Vaughters Baffled", until further notice.
 
May 14, 2010
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So Miller and Vaughters were particularly keen to bring White on board as DS - and White, by coincidence, was particularly keyed in to the Spanish doctor of the curious name Del Moral, who was known as a key doping doctor; while, by yet another coincidence, Danny Pate, I think it was, alludes to a mysterious change in the team during the year and his need to leave. Right.

When buckwheat attacked Vaughters here on this forum for hypocrisy, I frankly thought buckwheat was out of his mind - or on his way there. Now, I'd like to offer buckwheat a public apology. And if I ever hear another sanctimonious anti-doping word out of David Miller's filthy mouth, I think I'll puke.

EDIT: And let's not forget Landis's Alan "rice cakes" Lim, who made the transition from Garmin to Radioshack without so much as missing a beat.
 
Oct 25, 2010
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Maxiton said:
So Miller and Vaughters were particularly keen to bring White on board as DS - and White, by coincidence, was particularly keyed in to the Spanish doctor of the curious name Del Moral, who was known as a key doping doctor; while, by yet another coincidence, Danny Pate, I think it was, alludes to a mysterious change in the team during the year and his need to leave. Right.

When buckwheat attacked Vaughters here on this forum for hypocrisy, I frankly thought buckwheat was out of his mind - or on his way there. Now, I'd like to offer buckwheat a public apology. And if I ever hear another sanctimonious anti-doping word out of David Miller's filthy mouth, I think I'll puke.

EDIT: And let's not forget Landis's Alan "rice cakes" Lim, who made the transition from Garmin to Radioshack without so much as missing a beat.

Bravo. Bravo!
 
May 26, 2010
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why Millar is not understanding Landis after this

"You're 27 years old and you think you've got everything and then suddenly you have nothing - in fact less than nothing. I came back to England and started from scratch." ”

— David Millar, January 2006.

makes me doubt Millar and Slipstream. My opinion of Slipstream is starting to go south....:(
 
Oct 25, 2010
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Benotti69 said:
why Millar is not understanding Landis after this



makes me doubt Millar and Slipstream. My opinion of Slipstream is starting to go south....:(

Millar is a guy with a script riding for a team with a script.

168264-Movie-Script-Writing-Software.gif
 
Jun 18, 2009
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Benotti69 said:
why Millar is not understanding Landis after this



makes me doubt Millar and Slipstream. My opinion of Slipstream is starting to go south....:(

to be fair, I think JV started with the best intentions, trying to work within the system for positive change. But as they say, absolute power corrupts absolutely, and now that JV's entrenched in the inner circle, he's afraid to rock the boat...

Or, as Pate said, "something changed".

I think one of the most disappointing things about the whole Slipstream deal is that guys JV claimed he wanted to give the opportunity are no longer even on the team; Tuft, Duggan, McGregor, Cozza, Pate...

I think the inclusion of a couple of riders (and the exclusion of a couple others) of last year's tour team really put some things in perspective.
 
Oct 25, 2010
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131313 said:
to be fair, I think JV started with the best intentions, trying to work within the system for positive change. But as they say, absolute power corrupts absolutely, and now that JV's entrenched in the inner circle, he's afraid to rock the boat...

remaincalm-01.jpg


So why do you think he left Frankie hanging out in the wind? He owned no team back then. Why'd he choose Lance over Frankie?
 
Dec 7, 2010
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And let us not forget that JV wanted to acquire Contador. An JV so proudly pointed to the analysis of AC's and Andy's duel in the mountains as evidence of clean riding. :rolleyes:
 
Oct 25, 2010
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Granville57 said:
And let us not forget that JV wanted to acquire Contador. An JV so proudly pointed to the analysis of AC's and Andy's duel in the mountains as evidence of clean riding. :rolleyes:

Two properly pumped rivals.
 
Oct 25, 2010
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After reading the kimmage interview with Landis I see JV in a different light...something seemed very fishy about him stating that they only read results of tests, and had no time or reason to notice WHO had done the tests...so White and Lowe actually did notify JV that Del Moral had done the tests...but JV just hadn't noticed? HUH? I mean come on...something very shady going on with that line of crapola from JV...and in the light of the Kimmage interview it seems to me that JV was and is entirely aware and accepts doping and realizes it must be done...yet he builds his team and image almost entirely in the light of being an anti-doping unit...suckering his sponsers, or maybe they even knew...but gaining notoriety and more success than the team ever really deserved by using THAT as a selling point...to me, that is more vile than other team directors who simply know what is going on and do it in silence...at least they don't try to benefit from being the shiny example of cleanliness...
 
The Gnome said:
After reading the kimmage interview with Landis I see JV in a different light...something seemed very fishy about him stating that they only read results of tests, and had no time or reason to notice WHO had done the tests...so White and Lowe actually did notify JV that Del Moral had done the tests...but JV just hadn't noticed? HUH? I mean come on...something very shady going on with that line of crapola from JV...and in the light of the Kimmage interview it seems to me that JV was and is entirely aware and accepts doping and realizes it must be done...yet he builds his team and image almost entirely in the light of being an anti-doping unit...suckering his sponsers, or maybe they even knew...but gaining notoriety and more success than the team ever really deserved by using THAT as a selling point...to me, that is more vile than other team directors who simply know what is going on and do it in silence...at least they don't try to benefit from being the shiny example of cleanliness...

I think we could have a whole thread about the change in the perception of Slipstream. With two threads already about JV, Lowe, etc. it might be too much.

The pretty layer on the gold plated turd that is Slipstream has been flaking off since CVV rode into fourth place at the Tour, and the process appears to be accelerating.