Gas6?

[bewildered]

What about a rider whose passport is probably up and down like a yoyo due to an apparently recurrent RBC eating parasitic disease?

A rider who is on the record as stating that the Passport testers discovered this disease (meaning that one of his initial blood passport values would very low as he said he had had the disease for about a year undetected at that stage, Dec 2010)

 

[Setarkos]

As I said, as micro doses and maybe as a masking agent as you (@taiwan) described it's thinkable but the reported massive gains esp. in combination with EPO would easily be detected.
If you dope via your blood, you're limited by the blood passport. That doesn't prevent doping in general but it makes gains like during the 90's or Armstrong era impossible - whether it's a new drug or not.

 

[Setarkos]

What about a rider whose passport is probably up and down like a yoyo due to an apparently recurrent RBC eating parasitic disease?

A rider who is on the record as stating that the Passport testers discovered this disease (meaning that one of his initial blood passport values would very low as he said he had had the disease for about a year undetected at that stage, Dec 2010)

Does indeed pose a little problem to get a baseline but he is reportedly bilharzia free since early 2012 and thus would have to have had a consistent passport since then.

 

[King Boonen]

As I said, as micro doses and maybe as a masking agent as you (@taiwan) described it's thinkable but the reported massive gains esp. in combination with EPO would easily be detected.
If you dope via your blood, you're limited by the blood passport. That doesn't prevent doping in general but it makes gains like during the 90's or Armstrong era impossible - whether it's a new drug or not.

What reported massive gains in combination with EPO? There is nothing in the research to indicate that a combination of Gas6 and EPO is any better than EPO on it's own. This has all been discussed, in detail, in the thread. Read it, and the paper here;

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2176185/?report=reader#!po=17.1875

 

[Setarkos]

What reported massive gains in combination with EPO? There is nothing in the research to indicate that a combination of Gas6 and EPO is any better than EPO on it's own. This has all been discussed, in detail, in the thread. Read it, and the paper here;

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2176185/?report=reader#!po=17.1875

I mean what some people have been reading into it and suggested as GAS6 being used now.
I don't quite get why you're arguing with me - you seem to have the same viewpoint.

All I'm saying is that even IF GAS6 would be beneficial as a PED you could only use it in a very limited fashion (as most other blood doping methods) because you're limited by the blood passport.

 

[King Boonen]

I mean what some people have been reading into it and suggested as GAS6 being used now.
I don't quite get why you're arguing with me - you seem to have the same viewpoint.

All I'm saying is that even IF GAS6 would be beneficial as a PED you could only use it in a very limited fashion (as most other blood doping methods) because you're limited by the blood passport.

I'm not arguing, I'm trying to have a discussion based on evidence, I just want to know what you are reading as what you are saying does not agree with the research. There is no evidence that Gas6 increases your hematocrit above baseline, so realistically you could use as much of it as you want and you'd never trip the blood passport.

There is evidence that it will aid hematocrit recovery to baseline, but not past it.

 

[taiwan]

@KB I think there might be some ambiguity in the 'not past baseline' part. The graphs to which you referred (although they don't show the effect on a healthy mouse, no matter human) showed a the hct of one type of mouse go over baseline and then return towards it, and for the other type it only shows that after 4days the hct was over baseline. The use of the term "not supraphysiological" may be equivalent to something like humanly possible, ie an understatement.

 

[Cycle Chic]

Anemia

I'm not arguing, I'm trying to have a discussion based on evidence, I just want to know what you are reading as what you are saying does not agree with the research. There is no evidence that Gas6 increases your hematocrit above baseline, so realistically you could use as much of it as you want and you'd never trip the blood passport.

There is evidence that it will aid hematocrit recovery to baseline, but not past it.

Python:-

a theoretical case can be made, that pro riders are in a constant mild state of anemia due to training loads thus elevating their rbc turnover and stimulating their natural epo production. though quite plausible, this scenario need several qualifiers before the gas6 effect can be translated into tangible performance increases in humans

we,re this far anyway...didn't see Taiwan had posted though

 

[Cycle Chic]

Epo and gas 6

Progress toward an alternative for EPO - Gas6 offers remedy where EPO fails today


31 January 2008

http://www.vib.be/en/news/Pages/Pro...Gas6-offers-remedy-where-EPO-fails-today.aspx

Interesting Reading - from 2008.

 

[King Boonen]

Python:-



we,re this far anyway...didn't see Taiwan had posted though

I'm not sure about the relevance of this? I've stated that it could be used as a recovery aid, that means all the time, not just in racing. would need a lot more research though.

 

[Cycle Chic]

I'm not sure about the relevance of this? I've stated that it could be used as a recovery aid, that means all the time, not just in racing. would need a lot more research though.

If Thomas Frei pointed to Gas6 I didn't think it was commonplace in the peloton.

 

[Cycle Chic]

Le Monde mentions Gas 6

Interesting reading in Le Monde..

http://www.lemonde.fr/sport/article...as-positif-sur-le-tour-2013_3464530_3242.html

The UCI is pleased (rather quickly) the absence of positive cases in the Tour in 2013


[size=+0][SIZE=+0]"DOPING RECOVERY"[/size][/SIZE]

[size=+0][SIZE=+0]"Cheaters will always be one step ahead,[/size][/SIZE][size=+0][SIZE=+0] says [/size][/SIZE][size=+0][SIZE=+0]Marc Kluszczinski [/size][/SIZE][size=+0][SIZE=+0]. To [/size][/SIZE][size=+0][SIZE=+0]circumvent[/size][/SIZE][size=+0][SIZE=+0] the anti-doping authorities, the riders are new. We will not see a victory Pantani at the top of Alpe d'Huez. It tends towards a . doping recovery smoother and less striking Although Froome tends to [/size][/SIZE][size=+0][SIZE=+0]prove[/size][/SIZE][size=+0][SIZE=+0] . otherwise "[/size][/SIZE] [size=+0][SIZE=+0]According to the doctor of pharmacy, a new molecule could quickly worry supervisory authorities: the GAS6.[/size][/SIZE]

[size=+0][SIZE=+0]Monday, July 15, [/size][/SIZE][size=+0][SIZE=+0]Thomas Frei[/size][/SIZE][size=+0][SIZE=+0] - a former Swiss rider from the BMC team tested positive for EPO in 2010 - for the first time mentioned the name of this mysterious chemical assembly about her [/size][/SIZE][size=+0][SIZE=+0]Twitter[/size][/SIZE][size=+0][SIZE=+0] . [/size][size=+0]"The GAS6 belongs to the jungle growth factors that are undetectable by synthesizing,[/size][size=+0] Marc described Kluszczinski. [/size][size=+0]It promotes the secretion of endogenous EPO, our body manufacturer. This is also valid for inhibitors of HIF and other hormones and undetectable, not not on the blacklist of the AMA. "[/size][/SIZE]