GB Track Team

[Don't be late Pedro]

If the build quality is anything like British autos, no thanks. The bikes might be made deliberately fugly to discourage buyers.

I am sure that a marketing plan which consists in its totality of a single crappy webpage with an email address has nothing to do with a lack of sales or a lack of earnest sales effort. If one did not know better they might think that the Brits did not want to sell any at all.

I didn't realise the rules said that you needed an advertising campaign to sell your bikes. I didn't also realise that track racing has extra awards for the prettiest bike.

I imagine it is the price that is putting people off. If you were willing to spend that kind of money I am pretty sure that tracking them down would not be an issue.

 

[BroDeal]

I didn't realise the rules said that you needed an advertising campaign to sell your bikes. I didn't also realise that track racing has extra awards for the prettiest bike.

I imagine it is the price that is putting people off. If you were willing to spend that kind of money I am pretty sure that tracking them down would not be an issue.

I imagine what is putting people off is that BG has no intention of selling the bikes to anyone. That they are available is a fiction.

If not a single bike has been sold in two years then this is not a commercial product.

 

[Don't be late Pedro]

I imagine what is putting people off is that BG has no intention of selling the bikes to anyone. That they are available is a fiction.

If no a single bike has been sold in two years then this is not a commercial product.

Why don't you be the first to buy one from here then.

 

[barn yard]

AUS and GER have both tried to buy the GB bikes and helmets and have not been able to.

AUS and GBR have both tried to buy the FES bikes and have not been able to.

as much as they claim they are commercially available (both the GB and FES bikes), they are not. the initial emails get a response with a huge $ quote to scare people away - i know AUS accepted GB's quote in writing but surprise surprise there was no further response from GB.

 

[Don't be late Pedro]

AUS and GER have both tried to buy the GB bikes and helmets and have not been able to.

AUS and GBR have both tried to buy the FES bikes and have not been able to.

as much as they claim they are commercially available (both the GB and FES bikes), they are not. the initial emails get a response with a huge $ quote to scare people away - i know AUS accepted GB's quote in writing but surprise surprise there was no further response from GB.

Thats interesting... I would assume they could complain to the UCI should they want to take it further. Do you have a link for that?

I am sure the high cost would be a deterrent but also because the R&D costs would be prohibitive.

 

[barn yard]

no i do not have a link, but i have seen one of these emails from a national federation to another national federation.

the high cost is not to try and recover r&d costs, it is to stop people buying their technology/secret weapons.

but the real secret (not so secret) weapons are not listed on the GB website anyway... wink wink

 

[stampedingviking]

Stated today on BBC commentary (by Boardman I believe) that there have been no enquiries re British bikes.

 

[Microchip]

Don't know if it has been posted yet but here is the video of Bauge and Kenny in the press conference afterwards.

http://www.telly.com/6YVQE?fromtwitvid=1

Thanks, been searching for this. A little difficult to hear, the printed articles are much clearer, although I would have liked to hear more of the interchange between Bauge and Kenny.

 

[blackcat]

Apparently Brailsford said to a French journalist that the British bikes had "specially round wheels", as a joke, obviously. Well not so obviously, as this appears to be the source of the French concern about British technology. Front page story on toady's Evening Standard, no less!

Boardman was saying on the TV commentary earlier today that the British team bikes have been on sale for 2 years, but they've had no enquiries from anyone. Perhaps someone here should make a concerted effort to buy one and see if it's actually possible..

the technology that goes into sphereical componentry in interstellar telescope and the degree of accurancy in nuclear centrifuges are truly amazing.

So he may be not making stuff up, but I am skeptical about the utility gains of the previous best product on the market or from team australia. The smoothest and most round wheel, remembering that the boards on the track are not perfect, and that the track temperatures influence how flat the boards are on the day (and the speeds), which is why records are often set at del monte Adelaide velodrome in South Australia in Adelaide as the national body wish to get the velodrome as quick as possible and records to fall.

Bobridges 4'10" or 4'11", could have been a 4'15" in Manchester normalised.

 

[Ripper]

This. Our track team have form, and essentially we are continuing the dominance we showed in Beijing, and in the intervening World Cup and Champs meets. As for the times in the 'test' event which was actually a World Cup meet earlier this year records tumbled. The velodrome is considered the fastest in the world and included airlocks to get in and out. Someone liked to more technical aspects of the track itself as well. And yes, home advantage does play a part too.

This performance does not come from out of nowhere, so either GB has been doping for years, since 2004 when Wiggins and Hoy won gold, or they are this good

Thanks for sharing, I do not doubt you are correct

 

[blackcat]

If we use the logic of the Sky fans that list would be surprisingly short. Positive tests are absent (except Floyd). Some other salient points:

1. Until this data lance and USPS are still to be considered clean. It took a herculean effort to get it where it is now.
2. Basso only said het attempted to dope. And that came to light due to police action.
3. Alberto Contador has been convicted on a technicality (contaminated supplements are the riders responsibility) on an incredibly low treshold. His OP connection is denied.
4. Telekom is implicated, but never proven to be issing team wide doping.
5. Beloki was cleared by his federation
6. Botero was cleared by his federation.
7. The Human Plasma case didn't lead to a follow up at all. Not the UCI, not the national federations.

The risk for using dope, being caught and then paying a significant price is absolutely not in balance with the possible gains.

And to drive this one home with a clad-iron mallet: The majority of high profile cases are not related to a positive test.

So on the one hand you yourself argue that the biggest names in cycling are implicated. Yet we are idiots to think the same of Sky. You even demand an evidence which is absolutely ridiculous considering the reality of the inadequacies in testing. Let's face it, if you use your own logic you shouldn't trust Sky and the GB track team. You have to do some soul searching why you are so illogical about this.

good post

let me add,
premise of doping is to compete with some aid to either work as a domo, be competitive, or to scale the podium.

if you take dope that will show up, this contravenes your goal.

the only way you can be succesful in the actions and behaviour doping oneself, is if the products successfully flout and avoid the testing protocols.

And blood transfusions, and micro-dosing, as Ashendens latest research found, can successful avert any testing technology as it stands.

 

[blackcat]

I didnt say that all the big names in cycling had tested positive. I asked if they had unblemished records. If you look at Lance's case or that of Valverde or Basso that is as good as nailed on evidence of doping. There is not anything even remotely close to that at the moment for the GB track team. If something like that comes out then fair enough. My point was it is almost impossible to keep a huge team wide doping operation completely quiet long term.

I disagree. Had Armstrong not come back, he could have kept the 7 titles, and kept on managing the media with his PR spooks and hoard of lobbyists, and his cancer as cover.

The msm media will not destroy heroes.

How many GB track cycling athletes will be knighted? Hoy is, Wiggins will, Kenny perhaps, and prolly Vivky Pendleton will become Lady Victoria.

Awful good cancer cover. Unless you are a canadian called Conrad Black

 

[blackcat]

Dame not Lady Pendleton

 

[blackcat]

I think he's taking protein shakes. Maybe 3 or 4 a day if he's really dedicated. QUOTE]

I got a laugh out of this

thanks

 

[blackcat]

But, we will see. History will tell. If Brailsford and Britain have hit on a winning combination for training or nutrition, we will see it repeated by other teams. And, eventually the news of "how" will trickle down to us peons.

exactly, therre should be a market, and there should be anequilibrium, if this was not a figleaf justification

 

[blackcat]

With respect to doping in the 90's and 00's in the road peloton I certainly do believe that doping was widespread. The point that I was trying to make is that USPS appears to be the only group that went for an audacious "all-in" doping strategy: hell yes we're gonna dope, flat out, and aggressively protect our image at the same time. I do believe that if Lance had given Floyd a job or a few bucks when he asked, that USPS would not be involved in any of this WADA and USADA stuff. The current imbroglio could result in the complete cashiering of UCI's authority to regulate cycling worldwide.

My hypothesis is that IF Team GB is doping, it would have to be similar in scope and aggression similar to what USPS attempted.

kidding arent you?

I think all were at that time, even the French teams.

But you cant even bother googling Kelme or ONCE?

Come on, give us something...

 

[TubularBills]

 

[Wallace and Gromit]

Thanks for sharing, I do not doubt you are correct

The problem with the "Wiggins was doping in 2004" theory is that is makes no sense given his early GT climbing exploits ie 2006-2008.

I know nothing is impossible in cycling, but for a man to "cross the line" and dope to win a gold medal on the track in the OGs, then sit happily for three years getting his backside kicked in GTs and do nothing about it until 2009 does not make much sense.

The "Wiggins started doping after the 2008 OGs" theory does make sense, given the chronology of this GT performances.

If there is a team-wide doping strategy in UK cycling, it will most likely have started after London was awarded the 2012 OGs. National pride demands lots of golds in a home OGs. Funding to the UK Olympic teams went up from ~£60m for Athens to ~£240m for Beijing, and up a further £40m for London.

Incidentally, I note that GB has won gold medals in three sports that have traditionally not been good one for the team at the OGs:
- Show jumping
- Dressage
- Triathlon

Plus, there are more minor medals than before in other sports such as Judo, boxing and gymnastics.

Do the cynics think the team-wide doping programme extends beyond cycling? Note that results in these other sports have improved much more since Beijing than in cycling.

I find the concept of horses and teenage gymnasts being systematically doped a conspiracy theory too far, to be honest. The gymnasts, being so young, live at home with their parents in the main. Parents generally want their kids to be healthy and happy, not doped up medal winners, so it's hard to see how the doping plan could extend so far, which leaves the question as to how the gymnasts have improved so much. Maybe chucking a lot of cash at coaching and facilities does work.

 

[B_Ugli]

The problem with the "Wiggins was doping in 2004" theory is that is makes no sense given his early GT climbing exploits ie 2006-2008.

I know nothing is impossible in cycling, but for a man to "cross the line" and dope to win a gold medal on the track in the OGs, then sit happily for three years getting his backside kicked in GTs and do nothing about it until 2009 does not make much sense.

The "Wiggins started doping after the 2008 OGs" theory does make sense, given the chronology of this GT performances.

If there is a team-wide doping strategy in UK cycling, it will most likely have started after London was awarded the 2012 OGs. National pride demands lots of golds in a home OGs. Funding to the UK Olympic teams went up from ~£60m for Athens to ~£240m for Beijing, and up a further £40m for London.

Incidentally, I note that GB has won gold medals in three sports that have traditionally not been good one for the team at the OGs:
- Show jumping
- Dressage
- Triathlon

Plus, there are more minor medals than before in other sports such as Judo, boxing and gymnastics.

Do the cynics think the team-wide doping programme extends beyond cycling? Note that results in these other sports have improved much more since Beijing than in cycling.

I find the concept of horses and teenage gymnasts being systematically doped a conspiracy theory too far, to be honest. The gymnasts, being so young, live at home with their parents in the main. Parents generally want their kids to be healthy and happy, not doped up medal winners, so it's hard to see how the doping plan could extend so far, which leaves the question as to how the gymnasts have improved so much. Maybe chucking a lot of cash at coaching and facilities does work.

This is something I have pondered. I would like to believe that all their hard work and investment is beginning to pay off. Being a Brit and having followed cycling since the Lemond days (like others) I am obviously pleased about the UK success in cycling. However this needs to be balanced against all that most cycling fans have witnessed since the Festina scandal which now leads me to believe that if a performance appears to be unbelievable then it usually is just that. I mentioned it to my other half that I want to believe the performances are legit but making that leap of faith is difficult. She asked me whether i thought the performances were that "unbelievable" as to raise suspicion. I simply dont know. How do you bench mark what is normal when performance have been so abnormal for so long?

Reading the way the UCI are carrying on in the Armstrong case suggests to me that claims about cycling now being a clean sport is an "illusion" when in actual fact the UCI is running a protection racket within its adminstration.

While I look forward to the Vuelta I dont look forward to Contadors return and wonder if it will have the "unbelievable" performances of an Old Style Tour. One step forward two steps back?

 

[sittingbison]

The problem with the "Wiggins was doping in 2004" theory is that is makes no sense given his early GT climbing exploits ie 2006-2008....

Perhaps he was doped to compete on the track in his chosen pursuit hehe, the pursuit, and could not translate to the road. And then he doped and trained specifically for the road after 2008 Beijing.

Which is what almost everyone here (except krebs) has suggested, as translating fro the track to Grand Tour winner has basically never been achieved before except by Coppi, Merckx (after hour record, not pursuit) TDF, a blood doped Moser (after hour record, not pursuit) with a hand picked flat Giro. And these guys were already on the road.

 

[TubularBills]

This is something I have pondered. I would like to believe that all their hard work and investment is beginning to pay off. Being a Brit and having followed cycling since the Lemond days (like others) I am obviously pleased about the UK success in cycling. However this needs to be balanced against all that most cycling fans have witnessed since the Festina scandal which now leads me to believe that if a performance appears to be unbelievable then it usually is just that. I mentioned it to my other half that I want to believe the performances are legit but making that leap of faith is difficult. She asked me whether i thought the performances were that "unbelievable" as to raise suspicion. I simply dont know. How do you bench mark what is normal when performance have been so abnormal for so long?

Reading the way the UCI are carrying on in the Armstrong case suggests to me that claims about cycling now being a clean sport is an "illusion" when in actual fact the UCI is running a protection racket within its adminstration.

While I look forward to the Vuelta I dont look forward to Contadors return and wonder if it will have the "unbelievable" performances of an Old Style Tour. One step forward two steps back?

+1

Well said.

 

[the big ring]

Stated today on BBC commentary (by Boardman I believe) that there have been no enquiries re British bikes.

Which is patently false, as someone enquired over at weight weenies and got a price list.

 

[TubularBills]

Which is patently false, as someone enquired over at weight weenies and got a price list.

link?

+ 10 spaces.

Does passively listing a bike as 'publicly' available = available?

Yes it adheres to the rules, but...

Adding up... 1 + 1?

 

[the big ring]

link?

+ 10 spaces.

Does passively listing a bike as 'publicly' available = available?

Yes it adheres to the rules, but...

Adding up... 1 + 1?

Agree, I HATE people making claims or quoting people / orgs without links. Apologies:

http://weightweenies.starbike.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=903697#p903697

Road/TT Frame - £7,000
Road/TT Fork - £3,200
Pursuit Bars - £4,000
Seat Post - £800

All bespoke, apparently... which is a bit confusing as the frames from Cav and Wiggo looked the same in dimensions. Perhaps they were in fact different from each other?

Lead time is looking at ~6 months.

 

[the big ring]

So $22k AU not including chain, wheels, seat or tyres.

Another $3k (pounds?) for a helmet.

I'll take 10 thanks.