GC Power Ranking

[QueenStagiaire]

1.Pogacar
2.Vingegaard
3-10. Roglic, Evenepoel, S.Yates, Almeida, Lipowitz, Del Toro, Ayuso

And who is the 10th rider?

 

[Potomac]

Derek Gee should be just behind Lipo on any list.

 

[Potomac]

I know people will swipe left on me for this.
But I do love the see what the PCS algorithm says.....

"Summation over a 3-year period of points in general classifications. Points older than 2 year are counted at 50%, points older than 1 year at 75%."

#	Prev.	Diff.	Rider	Team	Points
1	1	-	VINGEGAARD Jonas	Team Visma | Lease a Bike	2400
2	6	▲4	ALMEIDA João	UAE Team Emirates - XRG	2305
3	2	▼1	POGAČAR Tadej	UAE Team Emirates - XRG	2253
4	4	-	ROGLIČ Primož	Red Bull - BORA - hansgrohe	1903
5	3	▼2	YATES Adam	UAE Team Emirates - XRG	1737
6	20	▲14	ONLEY Oscar	Team Picnic PostNL	1616
7	9	▲2	O'CONNOR Ben	Team Jayco AlUla	1571
8	13	▲5	MAS Enric	Movistar Team	1527
9	5	▼4	EVENEPOEL Remco	Soudal Quick-Step	1473
10	8	▼2	RODRÍGUEZ Carlos	INEOS Grenadiers	1430
11	7	▼4	LANDA Mikel	Soudal Quick-Step	1383
12	17	▲5	YATES Simon	Team Visma | Lease a Bike	1364
13	15	▲2	AYUSO Juan	UAE Team Emirates - XRG	1328
14	65	▲51	LIPOWITZ Florian	Red Bull - BORA - hansgrohe	1325
15	16	▲1	JORGENSON Matteo	Team Visma | Lease a Bike	1287
16	11	▼5	BILBAO Pello	Bahrain - Victorious	1188
17	26	▲9	ARENSMAN Thymen	INEOS Grenadiers	1163
18	23	▲5	VAN WILDER Ilan	Soudal Quick-Step	1140
19	56	▲37	VAUQUELIN Kévin	Arkéa - B&B Hotels	1132
20	12	▼8	SKJELMOSE Mattias	Lidl - Trek	1120
21	39	▲18	GALL Felix	Decathlon AG2R La Mondiale Team	1069
22	19	▼3	KUSS Sepp	Team Visma | Lease a Bike	1050
23	27	▲4	DEL TORO Isaac	UAE Team Emirates - XRG	1038
24	44	▲20	STORER Michael	Tudor Pro Cycling Team	1036
25	18	▼7	MCNULTY Brandon	UAE Team Emirates - XRG	1018

 

[Potomac]

I usually defend the PCS list for having a method, but I cannot figure out how they have Vingo above Poggi


(vingo has 14 races, pog has 9)

 

[jono]

Derek Gee should be just behind Lipo on any list.

I liked your post and though I don't actually agree with it, I am a bit surprised that in the previous two pages (50 posts) of conversation his name doesn't come up at all.

He's finished top 10 in both GTs that he has been racing for GC and has some good finishes in Dauphine, Tirreno, and smaller one week races.

 

[Cookster15]

In stage races he's overrated

Remco won the 2022 Vuelta and finished a solid 3rd behind the big two at last year's TdF - 3 minutes down on Vingegaard. Remco is still only 25 and his best days ahead of him. I don't think he's overrated in stage races.

 

[Red Rick]

I usually defend the PCS list for having a method, but I cannot figure out how they have Vingo above Poggi


(vingo has 14 races, pog has 9)

I mean it has Almeida over Pogacar.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

Pogacar & Vingegaard in top2 in the last 4 or 5 seasons is a no brainer. Any other ranking makes no sense. If we make 12 months rolling ranking then:

1. Pogacar
2. Vingegaard
3. Roglic
4. S. Yates
5. Almeida
6. Lipowitz

I am too lazy to go further down the ranking.

 

[Bolder]

Pogacar & Vingegaard in top2 in the last 4 or 5 seasons is a no brainer. Any other ranking makes no sense. If we make 12 months rolling ranking then:

1. Pogacar
2. Vingegaard
3. Roglic
4. S. Yates
5. Almeida
6. Lipowitz

I am too lazy to go further down the ranking.

We shall see if Roglic has just given up on GC.
I might still have Remco at No. 5. I mean, he was third at the Tour last year, certainly if he's healthy he's a podium threat at any GT. I'd also move Almeida up above Yates; I love his Giro win but a lot of things had to come together perfectly, including having a relatively weak field.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

We shall see if Roglic has just given up on GC.
I might still have Remco at No. 5. I mean, he was third at the Tour last year, certainly if he's healthy he's a podium threat at any GT. I'd also move Almeida up above Yates; I love his Giro win but a lot of things had to come together perfectly, including having a relatively weak field.

Depending on criteria, the ranking can change. To me its performance in the last 12 months (not necessarily average but peak) and Remco is definitely not in top6 then.

 

[Red Rick]

Remco won the 2022 Vuelta and finished a solid 3rd behind the big two at last year's TdF - 3 minutes down on Vingegaard. Remco is still only 25 and his best days ahead of him. I don't think he's overrated in stage races.

He's rated 3rd in the world yet his WT stage race palmares is a Vuelta, a TdF 3rd place and a UAE win in a timespan of 4-5 years depending on when you wanna start measuring. That's just a poor return of investment.

And cycling is no longer really such that you're "only" 25 when you're in your 7th year at the WT level. He started on the WT level the same year as Pogacar and Vingegaard (and Van Aert and MvdP for that matter).

 

[Peyroteo94]

He's rated 3rd in the world yet his WT stage race palmares is a Vuelta, a TdF 3rd place and a UAE podium in a timespan of 4-5 years depending on when you wanna start measuring. That's just a poor return of investment.

And cycling is no longer really such that you're "only" 25 when you're in your 7th year at the WT level. He started on the WT level the same year as Pogacar and Vingegaard (and Van Aert and MvdP for that matter).

This is so true. I already said many times the gap is getting bigger and bigger in GTs year after year.
I think the gap to Jonas was non existent in 2018 since he was 66th in the Tour de l'Avenir Pogacar won.
In 2019 and 2020, I also think Remco was a better GT rider than Vingegaard, at least many of Remco fans believe he would win the Giro 2020.
So if Remco was better or equal to Vingegaard in 2019-2020 in stage racing, it is accurate to say the gap between them is getting bigger and bigger since Jonas has been showing (from 2021 onwards) a level in stage races, Remco didn't show at all in his career.

 

[Eddy Evenepoel]

He's rated 3rd in the world yet his WT stage race palmares is a Vuelta, a TdF 3rd place and a UAE podium in a timespan of 4-5 years depending on when you wanna start measuring. That's just a poor return of investment.

UAE Win*

Counting podiums he then got podiums in Swiss, Paris-Nice and Catalunya at WT level. When counting all WT stage races he’s also had the win in Pologne, but as you say that might be outside of the time span.

The gap up to the stage racing palmares of Pogacar and Vingegaard are huge and also to Roglic of course (but with Roglic the age and trend has to be a factor), but to the rest of the riders that are in discussion about top 10 here - its not like any of these really have been winning big a lot either:

- Almeida has won 3 races this year, but his best GT result is only 3rd in the Giro two years ago.
- Lipo was 3rd in the Tour and Dauphine, and is a great GC rider -> but his only wins are in Sibiu Tour and Czech Tour.
- Simon won the Giro, but that’s his first WT stage race win since Tirreno 2020.
- Ayoso has won Tirreno and Basque, but still his best GT result is 3rd in the 2022 Vuelta.
- Del Toros biggest stage race victory is Tour of Austria and he’s only ever podiumed Tour down Under next to the Giro.

 

[AmRacer]

UAE Win*

Counting podiums he then got podiums in Swiss, Paris-Nice and Catalunya at WT level. When counting all WT stage races he’s also had the win in Pologne, but as you say that might be outside of the time span.

The gap up to the stage racing palmares of Pogacar and Vingegaard are huge and also to Roglic of course (but with Roglic the age and trend has to be a factor), but to the rest of the riders that are in discussion about top 10 here - its not like any of these really have been winning big a lot either:

- Almeida has won 3 races this year, but his best GT result is only 3rd in the Giro two years ago.
- Lipo was 3rd in the Tour and Dauphine, and is a great GC rider -> but his only wins are in Sibiu Tour and Czech Tour.
- Simon won the Giro, but that’s his first WT stage race win since Tirreno 2020.
- Ayoso has won Tirreno and Basque, but still his best GT result is 3rd in the 2022 Vuelta.
- Del Toros biggest stage race victory is Tour of Austria and he’s only ever podiumed Tour down Under next to the Giro.

How about Rogla

 

[Eddy Evenepoel]

How about Rogla

Did you not see him being mentioned together with Pogi and Jonas in the post you quoted?

 

[AmRacer]

Did you not see him being mentioned together with Pogi and Jonas in the post you quoted?

No

 

[Eddy Evenepoel]

No

But you did now?

 

[Psycat]

Depending on criteria, the ranking can change. To me its performance in the last 12 months (not necessarily average but peak) and Remco is definitely not in top6 then.

How about O'Connor? One second and one 4th place last year(granted his 4th placement is more than 12 months ago I suppose) and still relatively high up in the Tour.

Of course not top 5 but certainly got a case for top 10 no?

 

[Ilmaestro99]

Do it! I want all 30 names!

My 30 gc riders better than Jorgensen

Vingegard
Roglic
Remco
Ajuso
De Toro
Carapaz
Landa
Almida
Simon Yates
Adam Yates
Enric Mad
Feliz Gall
Florian Lippipotamus
Tobias Halland Johannsen
Kevin Vauquelin
Derrick Gee
Ben o'conner
Sep Kuss
Damiano Caruso
OScar Onley
Michael storrer
Ben Heally
Carlos Rodriguez
Thymen Arensmen
Egan bernal
Lenny Martinez
Jordan jegat
David gaudu
Antonio tiberi
Jay hindley
Daniel Felipe martinez

Bonus: tadej pocagar

 

[AmRacer]

But you did now?

Yeah, this year, Rogla is number 3. Next year he isn't, I doubt he will ride.

 

[Rechtschreibfehler]

I liked your post and though I don't actually agree with it, I am a bit surprised that in the previous two pages (50 posts) of conversation his name doesn't come up at all.

He's finished top 10 in both GTs that he has been racing for GC and has some good finishes in Dauphine, Tirreno, and smaller one week races.

The reason is, I guess, that he does have 2 Top 10s, but these are a 9th place, half an hour down, in the 2024 Tour and a 4th place in a very weak Giro field this year. Most of the riders mentioned have already finished on a GT podium or outright won one or 5. Jorgenson being the exception, but he did win PN twice.

 

[Rou]

1. Pogacar
2. Vingegaard
3. Almeida
4. Roglic
5. Carapaz
6. S. Yates
7. Del Toro
8. Lipowitz
9. Mas
10. Ayuso

Some of these are not based on direct head to heads but on general feeling and expectation.
For example I expect a fully fit and healthy Almeida to give a serious fight to Vingegaard in one month.

 

[greyclouds]

1.Pogacar
2.Vingegaard
3-10. Roglic, Evenepoel, S.Yates, Almeida, Lipowitz, Del Toro, Ayuso

This might be the closest to a Power Ranking, given that no one from the bottom list has consistently shown that they are above the rest. I would separate a few like this:

1. Pogacar
2. Vingegaard
3-6. Evenopoel (because none of the others has shown his h/l in Tour '24 and Vuelta '22);
Almeida (because of his h/l in WT races and performance over the last 2 years + consistency over his career)
Lipowitz (Tour '25 + Dauphine '25 + general h/l)
Roglic (because yes)
7-10. Del Toro, Ayuso, S. Yates, Carapaz
Honorable mentions: Onley, Mas, O' Connor, Gall

 

[Potomac]

Here's a list riders that have actually won a WT level stage race this year.

Date Race Winner Class
21.01 - 26.01 Santos Tour Down Under NARVÁEZ Jhonatan 2.UWT
17.02 - 23.02 UAE Tour POGAČAR Tadej 2.UWT
09.03 - 16.03 Paris-Nice JORGENSON Matteo 2.UWT
10.03 - 16.03 Tirreno-Adriatico AYUSO Juan 2.UWT
24.03 - 30.03 Volta Ciclista a Catalunya ROGLIČ Primož 2.UWT
07.04 - 12.04 Itzulia Basque Country ALMEIDA João 2.UWT
09.05 - 01.06 Giro d'Italia YATES Simon 2.UWT
29.04 - 04.05 Tour de Romandie ALMEIDA João 2.UWT
08.06 - 15.06 Critérium du Dauphiné POGAČAR Tadej 2.UWT
15.06 - 22.06 Tour de Suisse ALMEIDA João 2.UWT
05.07 - 27.07 Tour de France POGAČAR Tadej 2.UWT

If a rider isn't on the above list that should push them far down the power ranking, at least to 8th place.

 

[Squire]

Seems like people are answering a lot of separate questions in this thread, but to me a power ranking is the expected outcome if everyone lined up in top shape for a race tomorrow. Not some aggregate of their results. And because 1-week races and GTs can't really be compared, I'll be judging expected GT 'power'.

1. Pog
2. Vingegaard
3. Almeida
4. Evenepoel
5. Lipowitz
6. Ayuso
7. Roglic
Below that it's very murky, but people like Carapaz, Onley, Mas, Landa, Rodriguez, Gee, Del Toro, Yates, Gall etc. could be lumped together in a 'pretty much the same' basket.

All in all, the current crop of GT contenders behind the top 2-4 is kinda underwhelming.