GC Power Ranking

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Ilmaestro99

Ilmaestro99

Apr 13, 2021
7,351
19,313
17,180
Netserk said:
  1. Wonderboy
  2. Vingegaard
  3. Rogla
  4. Almeida
  5. Lipowitz
  6. Landa
  7. Carapaz
  8. Simon
  9. Hindley
  10. Del Toro
  11. Onley
  12. Ayuso
  13. Gall
  14. Mas
  15. Pidcock
  16. Adam
  17. Geesus
  18. Jorgenson
  19. Pellizzari
  20. Skjelmose
For this season, so counter-factual simulations are seeded at the beginning of the year. All stage races are considered, top-level, how reliably it can be reached, seasonal consistency, robustness, some reversion to the mean for outliers, and team role are factors.
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Finally someone who doesn't rank the guy the won the Giro d'italia on the finestre below 'enric mas'
 
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B

Brullnux

Mar 31, 2015
10,136
4,889
28,180
Devil's Elbow said:
Mas in the Tour:
2020 - 5th
2021 - 6th
2022 - DNF (this was the Tour where he was so scared of descending that he made prime Zakarin look technically gifted)
2023 - DNF (crashed out on day 1 with Carapaz)
2024 - this one was admittedly pretty bad
2025 - DNF (thrombophlebitis)

So he's never ridden the Vuelta while fresher than everyone else (unlike Skjelmose last year or Riccitello this year) and is 2/3 for good Tour GCs when he actually made it to the finish. Really don't agree he builds his season solely around the Vuelta - yes, it's a predefined target for him, but that has also been the case for Roglic almost whenever he raced it.


So the Vuelta route was not typical and therefore doesn't really count, but the hideously easy Tirreno one was typical and therefore counts? Because that's the only one where Landa competed against Gee.


So with Gee you are arguing we should look past his obvious shortcomings, but not with any of the other riders discussed? At that point, you're grading Gee on a different curve to everyone else.
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Mas was on par with like Kelderman in those races, he's not seriously one of the best GC riders in the world, he's at the bottom of the top 15 list at best.

No my point with Landa is that in both Tirreno and Catalunya he was OK, not great. When he has done really well in GTs (2024, 2022), he was excellent in those races. We will never know how he would've done in the Giro, but I don't think his early season form was akin to '22, or even '23. I also think we tend to overrate Landa for Landismo reasons, when his best result in the new era is still 3rd in the 22 Giro, two minutes behind Carapaz (his best performance is definitely the '24 Tour, but even there he was 20 minutes behind the winner which, using your logic for Gee's 2024 Tour, only slightly counts in his favour).

I think Gee has shortcomings, and I don't think we should look past them. However, I think that Gee's shortcomings are more minor and more fixable, and still don't prevent him from being a solid top-5 rider in the lesser GTs and a top-7 rider in the Tour. Fixing his issues bump him up to reliable podium and top-five in the Tour. Pidcock has performed in fewer GTs than Gee, despite much greater experience, and there are still questions marks over his TT and ability in actual mountain stages. With Pidcock, there is a real risk this was a flash in the pan; with Gee, it is obvious that it wasn't.

like I said, my way of assessing it is that if Gee doesn't top five his next GT – even the Tour – then he should be disappointed (unless the Tour GC is just completely stacked). Pidcock isn't coming top five next year in any GT with a normal amount of climbing and a normal amount of TT.
 
B

Brullnux

Mar 31, 2015
10,136
4,889
28,180
Netserk said:
I think Geesus is a diamond in the rough, a possible future GT winner. But he disappointed me somewhat in the Giro, I had expected a stronger finish to the race after he got going.
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I don't really think he had many chances to make a difference, to be honest. There were only really three GC revenant stages from 11 onwards. Champoluc was a bit disappointing but it turned out to be a bit of a punch-fest, and he was good on Finestre and Stage 16. His TT was a bit disappointing, but he still recovered 1:40 on Del Toro after week one without relying in any 'they let him go up the road' antics.
 
Netserk

Netserk

Apr 30, 2011
46,760
29,337
28,180
Brullnux said:
I don't really think he had many chances to make a difference, to be honest. There were only really three GC revenant stages from 11 onwards. Champoluc was a bit disappointing but it turned out to be a bit of a punch-fest, and he was good on Finestre and Stage 16. His TT was a bit disappointing, but he still recovered 1:40 on Del Toro after week one without relying in any 'they let him go up the road' antics.
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Champoluc and Bormio were rather punchy, but I still expected him to be stronger on the climbs from stage 17 onwards. He was much weaker on Finestre than the podium, masked by the self-sabotaging duo.
 
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Red Rick

Red Rick

Feb 20, 2012
53,772
44,101
28,180
Netserk said:
Champoluc and Bormio were rather punchy, but I still expected him to be stronger on the climbs from stage 17 onwards. He was much weaker on Finestre than the podium, masked by the self-sabotaging duo.
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I think Gee is a bit more of an attrition climber and Finestre being an attrition climb is a bit of a misconception for me, as it's usually a flat track bully FTP test with Sestriere as epilogue.
 
Berniece

Berniece

Sep 12, 2022
7,995
9,494
17,180
Netserk said:
  1. Wonderboy
  2. Vingegaard
  3. Rogla
  4. Almeida
  5. Lipowitz
  6. Landa
  7. Carapaz
  8. Simon
  9. Hindley
  10. Del Toro
  11. Onley
  12. Ayuso
  13. Gall
  14. Mas
  15. Pidcock
  16. Adam
  17. Geesus
  18. Jorgenson
  19. Pellizzari
  20. Skjelmose
For this season, so counter-factual simulations are seeded at the beginning of the year. All stage races are considered, top-level, how reliably it can be reached, seasonal consistency, robustness, some reversion to the mean for outliers, and team role are factors.
Click to expand...
For this season and then putting Landa 6th... Okay
 
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B

Brullnux

Mar 31, 2015
10,136
4,889
28,180
Netserk said:
Champoluc and Bormio were rather punchy, but I still expected him to be stronger on the climbs from stage 17 onwards. He was much weaker on Finestre than the podium, masked by the self-sabotaging duo.
Click to expand...
He was yeah, finished about a minute behind them, but Finestre is a w/kg test and Gee weighs 70+kg. I think that was a climb where he was always going to be on the defensive.
 
G

greyclouds

Sep 8, 2021
292
465
4,130
Netserk said:
  1. Wonderboy
  2. Vingegaard
  3. Rogla
  4. Almeida
  5. Lipowitz
  6. Landa
  7. Carapaz
  8. Simon
  9. Hindley
  10. Del Toro
  11. Onley
  12. Ayuso
  13. Gall
  14. Mas
  15. Pidcock
  16. Adam
  17. Geesus
  18. Jorgenson
  19. Pellizzari
  20. Skjelmose
For this season, so counter-factual simulations are seeded at the beginning of the year. All stage races are considered, top-level, how reliably it can be reached, seasonal consistency, robustness, some reversion to the mean for outliers, and team role are factors.
Click to expand...
If you are considering this season only, I don’t understand how you can put Rogla above Almeida and Landa/Carapaz above Simon/Del Toro and maybe Hindley.

Honourable mentions to Vauquelin and THJ.
 
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Netserk

Netserk

Apr 30, 2011
46,760
29,337
28,180
greyclouds said:
If you are considering this season only, I don’t understand how you can put Rogla above Almeida and Landa/Carapaz above Simon/Del Toro and maybe Hindley.

Honourable mentions to Vauquelin and THJ.
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Rogla had his strongest spring stage race performance ever in Catalunya and was the favourite to win the Giro when he got injured. Despite a bad prep, he proved in the Tour that his top-level is still excellent in the MTT and Ventoux.

So there's no indication that he wouldn't yet again be able to perform in a GT like he did in the Vuelta last year.
 
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Red Rick

Red Rick

Feb 20, 2012
53,772
44,101
28,180
Netserk said:
Rogla had his strongest spring stage race performance ever in Catalunya and was the favourite to win the Giro when he got injured.

So there's no indication that he wouldn't yet again be able to perform in a GT like he did in the Vuelta last year.
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His Unipuerto performances in the Tour combined with Bora's boys performance in the Vuelta along with Vuelta being Vuelta and Vingegaard's underwhelming performance make me think Primoz would have cooked at the Vuelta had he not raced the Tour.
 
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Netserk

Netserk

Apr 30, 2011
46,760
29,337
28,180
Red Rick said:
His Unipuerto performances in the Tour combined with Bora's boys performance in the Vuelta along with Vuelta being Vuelta and Vingegaard's underwhelming performance make me think Primoz would have cooked at the Vuelta had he not raced the Tour.
Click to expand...
Yep. If it wasn't for the monkey on his back and the chance to reach Paris again, he should have aborted the Tour when he became ill before the race.
 
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P

P4rthen0n

Apr 12, 2025
209
377
1,230
P4rthen0n said:
My ranking based both on the last 12 month's results/performances in my view, and who I'd chose as a team leader for my team for the next 12 months, in order:

1) Pogacar
2) Vingegaard
3) Remco (TdF 2024)
4) Almeida (TdF 2024 + 1 week races in 2025)
5) Lipowitz (Vuelta 2024 + TdF 2025)
6) Roglic (Vuelta 2024 + TdF 2025)
7) Ayuso (Giro 2025 befoer DNFing + 1 week races in 2025)
8) Del Toro (Giro 2025)
9) Carapaz (Vuelta 2024 + Giro 2025)
10) Jorgensen (TdF 2024 + Paris Nice)

The first 5 are easy. 6-10 are almost interchangeable.
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The 2025 GTs are done, so these would be my picks for the 2026 GC power ranking:

1) Pogacar
2) Vingegaard
3) Almeida
4) Remco
5) Lipowitz
6) Roglic
7) Del Toro
8) Carapaz
9) Onley
10) Felix Gall

The top6 are a lock (doubtful between Almeida and Remco), Del Toro and Carapaz seem right, but then it gets tricky.
Honorable mentions for Jorgensen, Hindley, Pidcock, Pellizari, Simon Yates, Ayuso and Gee.
I still think Simon Yates' win in the Giro was kind of a fluke and so he would not be my pick.
 
Cookster15

Cookster15

Moderator
May 14, 2011
6,089
6,599
23,180
Was thinking 2022 Giro winning Hindley was back in the Vuelta but that was benchmarking against what might have been a below par (sick) Vingo. The jury is still out on him perhaps?

But yes I overlooked Remco as I lazily used Netserk’s list with some minor edits - my apologies! Realistically I would place Remco 4th behind Almeida. Even then maybe Almeida seemed better due to Jonas being crook? But I am not sure Jonas was sick in the Angliru stage?

I don’t think we can call Simon Yates’s Finestre ride to win the Giro a fluke either? An anomaly maybe but fluke no. Flukes are lucky.
 
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