Gee I think it's awful that a DOPER won LBL

[Dr. Maserati]

I think there's a good case for life-bans for doping now tbh. Why bother banning people at all if they're just going to come back at the same level?

I must admit I am not for lifetime bans - but what we have now is ridiculous, in effect the bans are less now then they were some years ago.

Remember the 2 year ban + another 2 years unable to compete in a Pro Tour team?!

As our esteemed President Pat McQuaid said about Kohl & Schumacher in 2008.

Next year a rider in that position [willful cheating] would face a four year ban.

Why do I have a feeling that the first person this rule will be reserved for is Valvpiti.

 

[ChrisE]

I think there's a good case for life-bans for doping now tbh. Why bother banning people at all if they're just going to come back at the same level?

Maybe it is a case that the peloton is "cleaner" than it was a few years ago.

I don't know that as a fact obviously, but hopefully that is not being dismissed altogether. I am surprised your boy Gilbert can compete with the 9 other dopers in the top ten, as summarized by HJ.

It's interesting that even when riders pay their penalties with suspensions, when they come back they are still villified. I think only lifetime bans would satisfy most in here, that way the pesky notion of redemption would not have to be considered.

I personally think lifetime bans result in more vigorous and innane defense, like the FL fiasco. You have the one-offers like Kohl who was tired of the shyt, I do admit that.

I think present ban lengths are ok, but would like to give the riders a chance of a reduction if they would bust open the omerta. Until there is incentive to bring down omerta, it will not happen. A lifetime ban, with no weight on admission and uncovering the "system", is not much of an incentive.

 

[Hugh Januss]

I must admit I am not for lifetime bans - but what we have now is ridiculous, in effect the bans are less now then they were some years ago.

Remember the 2 year ban + another 2 years unable to compete in a Pro Tour team?!

As our esteemed President Pat McQuaid said about Kohl & Schumacher in 2008.

Why do I have a feeling that the first person this rule will be reserved for is Valvpiti.

You mean when he is finally banned on his 35th birthday?

 

[wattage]

What if Vino wins the Giro and Lance the Tour? This forum would explode.

 

[Moose McKnuckles]

Ah, this thread makes me long for the good ol' days when only clean riders won.

 

[BikeCentric]

First off, I've always liked Vino as he's a tough-as-nails Eastern bloc rider who reminds me of Dolph Lundgren in Rocky IV - "I vill break you." Since every one of the riders in arguably the top 50 of LBL is doped I might as well be happy that Vino gets the win.

However, I do think it's kind of funny (read: sad) that a guy can get busted for blood doping and then come right back and dope some more (and win). I mean lets be real: Vino is obviously doped up. He was on dope before, busted for it, and now he's as strong if not stronger than he was before. Therefore he's still on dope. Very simple. At that level you don't get better clean than you were on dope, especially after a suspension.

Therefore it seems pretty clear to me that the UCI is giving the tacit okay for riders to dope up as long as they don't flaunt their blood parameters on the bio-passport. The sport is really skating on thin ice with his tactic. I don't see how the higher-ups can possibly be so stupid as to think another big scandal ala Festina or Puerto is NOT going to hit the sport with this approach. And once again the sport will take a big hit. It continues to get hit hard and then get back up from the mat so I make no predictions of doom for the sport but there is simply no question that many sponsors will stay away from this dirty sport.

The bigger question is how do we encourage kids to pursue their dreams in this sport when we know the top level is dirty as Hell? I know I'll be telling my kid if I have one: "by all means race amateur, it's a great sport and can be good for you, but don't even think about about going pro."

 

[Dr. Maserati]

You mean when he is finally banned on his 35th birthday?

Hmmm, no... that is only 5 years from now.

After CAS agree with the UCI/WADA that Valv has a case to answer to the Spanish Fed who sanction Valv one year because he already has served a ban in another country so the UCI/WADA take the Spanish Fed back to CAS and.............

Maybe you meant 53?

 

[staubsauger]

oh come on, he was banned 2 years and he's back. it's just okay. he antoned for his pecadillos

what makes me more angry is, that ac was allowed to win the tdf twice, the vuelta and the giro while basso and scarponi were banned and the career of ullrich and beloki has been ended.

ricco was tested every day at the tdf08 just to catch him. rabobank was forced to put rasmussen out of the tdf 2007, but nobody cares about testing contadors giro samples from 2008 for cera. of course they will be postive. he won it without real training and even bruyneel was suprised that he was more competitive than klöden.

we don't need to talk about valve piti any more...

in my opinion that has nothing to do with anti-doping fight, i would call it anti-campaigns to sacrifice a pawn and that makes me angry.

so i won't be the one to point the finger at vino or ricco and call them bad people, just because they are doing what most of all are doing.

the real *******s are the "i am clean" hypocrites like gerdemann, lang, cunego or holczer.

and aso? never forget, that inter alla aso were the ones to put marco pantani to the number 1 doper and the persona non grata of the whole cycling business, destroying his career and his psych, while they were knowing that all the other tdf competitors (ullrich, armstrong, beloki, botero, sevillia) must be as dirty as il pirata. at least these anti-campaign maybe was one factor of many ones that drived pantani into his suicide.

prudhomme should put his alleged anti-doping fight to the pepperland....

so many people are hating vino, ricco and even sella, but they are just fantastic riders. and look emanuele sella might be the only convicted doper, who really blow the whistle on the doping network. if i count right,, the lampre story is the 3rd or 4th network after priamo and amica chips which
gets excavated after his concusions to the coni.

 

[luckyboy]

Maybe it is a case that the peloton is "cleaner" than it was a few years ago.

I don't know that as a fact obviously, but hopefully that is not being dismissed altogether. I am surprised your boy Gilbert can compete with the 9 other dopers in the top ten, as summarized by HJ.

I really hope he is clean - he had some pretty good victories whilst at FdJ (who I believe are clean - not sure about Madiot after he told Bassons to shut up though) - Het Volk x2, Paris-Tours [almost made it 2], Vuelta Mallorca, Dauphine stage, and smaller one day races. I hope that it has been a natural progression. I hope what he said in Kimmage's 05 article was not just lip service. Anyway, I was disappointed when he went to Lotto, and if he was ever found to be doping, then I would not be sad to see him be banned. Same with any rider.

It's interesting that even when riders pay their penalties with suspensions, when they come back they are still villified. I think only lifetime bans would satisfy most in here, that way the pesky notion of redemption would not have to be considered.

I didn't use to think that, but if riders are just going to dope upon their return, then I think it's probably best that they never come back..

 

[elapid]

I have to admit I'm with Foxy and Dr. Maserati. I'm glad Vino won LBL. I am an open critic of the bio-passport for the reasons highlighted by LA in the last week of the 2009 TdF. But we haven't seen Vino's blood work from today to be able to comment as to whether he is suspicious for doping. He is also not a protected rider like certain other riders in the peloton considering he has already been suspended once. So I doubt the UCI would hold back if Vino was suspected of doping today. Anyway, good on ya Vino!

 

[Tyler'sTwin]

I have to say I think Gilbert is clean. At least I hope he is. Certainly the rest of the top 10 aren't (not sure about Kolobnev).

Well, he's a russian who peaks at the worlds and olympics.

Here. Knock yourself out.

No


I'm not bitter, I'm realistic

Backstedt was clean.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

First off, I've always liked Vino as he's a tough-as-nails Eastern bloc rider who reminds me of Dolph Lundgren in Rocky IV - "I vill break you." Since every one of the riders in arguably the top 50 of LBL is doped I might as well be happy that Vino gets the win.

However, I do think it's kind of funny (read: sad) that a guy can get busted for blood doping and then come right back and dope some more (and win). I mean lets be real: Vino is obviously doped up. He was on dope before, busted for it, and now he's as strong if not stronger than he was before. Therefore he's still on dope. Very simple. At that level you don't get better clean than you were on dope, especially after a suspension.

Therefore it seems pretty clear to me that the UCI is giving the tacit okay for riders to dope up as long as they don't flaunt their blood parameters on the bio-passport. The sport is really skating on thin ice with his tactic. I don't see how the higher-ups can possibly be so stupid as to think another big scandal ala Festina or Puerto is NOT going to hit the sport with this approach. And once again the sport will take a big hit. It continues to get hit hard and then get back up from the mat so I make no predictions of doom for the sport but there is simply no question that many sponsors will stay away from this dirty sport.

The bigger question is how do we encourage kids to pursue their dreams in this sport when we know the top level is dirty as Hell? I know I'll be telling my kid if I have one: "by all means race amateur, it's a great sport and can be good for you, but don't even think about about going pro."

The Bio-Passport? Its a drug test run by committee.

Usually the attitude in administrations that run their affairs this way is that they have cleared their desk and moved up (in this case to the IOC) before it all hits the fan.

 

[Moose McKnuckles]

First off, I've always liked Vino as he's a tough-as-nails Eastern bloc rider who reminds me of Dolph Lundgren in Rocky IV - "I vill break you." Since every one of the riders in arguably the top 50 of LBL is doped I might as well be happy that Vino gets the win.

However, I do think it's kind of funny (read: sad) that a guy can get busted for blood doping and then come right back and dope some more (and win). I mean lets be real: Vino is obviously doped up. He was on dope before, busted for it, and now he's as strong if not stronger than he was before. Therefore he's still on dope. Very simple. At that level you don't get better clean than you were on dope, especially after a suspension.

Therefore it seems pretty clear to me that the UCI is giving the tacit okay for riders to dope up as long as they don't flaunt their blood parameters on the bio-passport. The sport is really skating on thin ice with his tactic. I don't see how the higher-ups can possibly be so stupid as to think another big scandal ala Festina or Puerto is NOT going to hit the sport with this approach. And once again the sport will take a big hit. It continues to get hit hard and then get back up from the mat so I make no predictions of doom for the sport but there is simply no question that many sponsors will stay away from this dirty sport.

The bigger question is how do we encourage kids to pursue their dreams in this sport when we know the top level is dirty as Hell? I know I'll be telling my kid if I have one: "by all means race amateur, it's a great sport and can be good for you, but don't even think about about going pro."

Yep, and while you're at it, don't go into banking, politics, mortgage lending, medicine, and all sorts of other occupations. Sorry, BC, I know where you're coming from, since I'm a dad as well, but temptation and cheating are rampant as long as there are humans around.

 

[Hugh Januss]

Hmmm, no... that is only 5 years from now.

After CAS agree with the UCI/WADA that Valv has a case to answer to the Spanish Fed who sanction Valv one year because he alreaddy has served a ban in another country so the UCI/WADA take the Spanish Fed back to CAS and.............

Maybe you meant 53?

Yah, I'm a little lesdixyc.

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

The bigger question is how do we encourage kids to pursue their dreams in this sport when we know the top level is dirty as Hell? I know I'll be telling my kid if I have one: "by all means race amateur, it's a great sport and can be good for you, but don't even think about about going pro."

EDUCATION !!!

Simply show the kids all the studies of how Doping does not work (it´s mostly placebo + all the "medicine" taken at the same time are with side-effects, thus tiring and therefore counterproductive)....

The Kids should learn about Mottet how he was winning clean, about Paul Köchli how to train perfect instead of listening to the pseudo scientists like Dr. Ferrari who dont know a $hit about proper training (quotet from Lemond) ...

 

[Dr. Maserati]

Yah, I'm a little lesdixyc.

Two am I. .........

 

[Dr. Maserati]

EDUCATION !!!

Simply show the kids all the studies of how Doping does not work (it´s mostly placebo + all the "medicine" taken at the same time are with side-effects, thus tiring and therefore counterproductive)....

The Kids should learn about Mottet how he was winning clean, about Paul Köchli how to train perfect instead of listening to the pseudo scientists like Dr. Ferrari who dont know a $hit about proper training (quotet from Lemond) ...

Much easier than that..... "Drugs are bad kids, don't do them, just say no".


Or the UCI could relaunch the 'pledge" that was so successful in 2007

"I swear to my team, my colleagues, the UCI, the cycling world and the public that I have not cheated, have not been involved in the Fuentes case or in any other doping case," read the statement that must be signed. "I declare myself ready to give a DNA sample to the Spanish judicial system so that it can be compared to the blood bags taken in the Operación Puerto."

 

[Galic Ho]

Just imagine Dolph Lundgren (played Ivan Drago in rocky IV) on a bike..................massive LOL

Dolph is Swedish but that doesn't matter. He has a degree in chemical engineering and an IQ of 160. A burglar broke into his house when his wife was at home by herself. The burglar approached Lundgren's wife and noticed a picture of her with Dolph. Burglar did an in prompt 180 and high tailed it out of their pronto. Why not? Dolph is an expert in some specialist Karate format and on his latest movie set the Untouchables he broke Sylvester Stallone's neck. Minor fracture but he still hit the Italian Stallion hard enough in the head to fracture his neck.

My favourite quote from Rocky IV: "I will breeaaak yoouuu!" Priceless. Sounds like the Ruskie thing to say.

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

oh come on, he was banned 2 years and he's back. it's just okay. he antoned for his pecadillos

what makes me more angry is, that ac was allowed to win the tdf twice, the vuelta and the giro while basso and scarponi were banned and the career of ullrich and beloki has been ended.

ricco was tested every day at the tdf08 just to catch him. rabobank was forced to put rasmussen out of the tdf 2007, but nobody cares about testing contadors giro samples from 2008 for cera. of course they will be postive. he won it without real training and even bruyneel was suprised that he was more competitive than klöden.

we don't need to talk about valve piti any more...

in my opinion that has nothing to do with anti-doping fight, i would call it anti-campaigns to sacrifice a pawn and that makes me angry.

so i won't be the one to point the finger at vino or ricco and call them bad people, just because they are doing what most of all are doing.

the real *******s are the "i am clean" hypocrites like gerdemann, lang, cunego or holczer.

and aso? never forget, that inter alla aso were the ones to put marco pantani to the number 1 doper and the persona non grata of the whole cycling business, destroying his career and his psych, while they were knowing that all the other tdf competitors (ullrich, armstrong, beloki, botero, sevillia) must be as dirty as il pirata. at least these anti-campaign maybe was one factor of many ones that drived pantani into his suicide.

prudhomme should put his alleged anti-doping fight to the pepperland....

so many people are hating vino, ricco and even sella, but they are just fantastic riders. and look emanuele sella might be the only convicted doper, who really blow the whistle on the doping network. if i count right,, the lampre story is the 3rd or 4th network after priamo and amica chips which
gets excavated after his concusions to the coni.

That was great. Exactly what i think and write here since last year.

Just one point to add: WADA is covering up too since Pound is gone (thanks A$$-Hole Pharmstrong ): It would be EASY to ban Valv-Piti right now, for the same reasons Pechstein is banned. There´s no reason to let him ride until justice is made in court (quote by a german sports lawyer).

As i said before: Every Vino (and Ricco, Sella, Rasmussen) win is a slap into the face of that organisation. And right so!!

 

[luckyboy]

He would've been banned by now if the UCI hadn't gone to CAS about why UFEC didn't open a case on Piti first.

 

[wattage]

http://velonews.competitor.com/2010/04/news/vinokourov-‘my-victory-was-clean’_113088

Vino says he's clean!

 

[luckyboy]

He must be then. Coincidence that people go to Tenerife to train with Ferrari.

 

[python]

http://velonews.competitor.com/2010/04/news/vinokourov-‘my-victory-was-clean’_113088

Vino says he's clean!

“Today was a dream fulfilled. My dream now is to start the Tour and win the Tour with Alberto, to be on the Champs-Elysees with him,” he said. “After the Giro. I will rest as much as possible. It’s an objective to win the Tour with Alberto. I am working hard for that. He’s young and he deserves our support. It’s different to win a classic to win a three-week tour. Alberto is the captain now.”

i think after today even the biggest skeptics should believe vino is candid and appreciative of what berto did for him today.

 

[Delicato]

I still wonder what are his plans towards Giro, will he ride to achieve high placing in overall GC?

 

[Cobblestones]

I still wonder what are his plans towards Giro, will he ride to achieve high placing in overall GC?

I think he should go for the Giro. Probably he peaked a bit early so he might go under in week, 3, but why not trying?