Geert Leinders

[The Hitch]

Oh, you mean by the Sky apologists? Of course they didn't say anything about that. It was the sceptics who brought it up. I don't remember the reaction of the fanboys - I imagine they didn't go there at all.

In fact, some.clearly don't agree

Oh did they. Oh. Widely labelled as disgusting on this forum.


Oh. I guess that's settled then.

 

[hrotha]

In fact, some.clearly don't agree

Yeah but BPChim doesn't count.

 

[Ferminal]

If memory serves climbing speeds were going down already in 2009 indicating that the 2009 Tour was cleaner than previous editions.

Let's not throw out suggestions which are the exact opposite of reality... Across the 3 GTs 2009 is one of the best years post-EPO test.

 

[Joachim]

The cremation thing, from DW and reinforced by you and Cycle Chic, beautifully illustrates just how skewed your thinking is. I didn't need to deflect anything. That aspect of that post, and those which followed, are barking mad.

 

[The Hitch]

Seriously, Sniper, you were pushing at the possibility of Sky deliberately having a guy cremated (like 1 in three of his countrymen) to hide illicit doping experiments. You've pretty much lost your credibility at that point.

The gentle advice was for DW, not you. Because DW does try to pull together some proper analysis - tipping the tin foil hat for him is the exception, not the norm.

So for slow of learning, sniper. The Leinders connection is worth pursuing; it stinks. The Armstrong comments by Wiggins, not as important as some make out, but certainly worth examining, and a black mark on Wiggins.

Dope-Hiding Cremations; not so much.

If sniper is arguing that its extremely stupid. Sceptics can't even get test results or blood profiles. How are we going to get hold of a body yet alone do the tests.

 

[Cerberus]

It was also the Tour where the VAM record was broken.

That could be an abnormality of some sort, wind, short stage, that sort of thing. Or alternatively and at least equally likely I could be misremembering, I'll try to see if I can dig up the actual data tomorrow.

 

[neineinei]

You obviously believe everything you are told. How do we know that Gonzalez died of blood poisoning ? have you seen the post mortem report ?

When Gilbert, Cadel, Hushovd, Ballan to name a few...are stricken with a VIRUS, do we get told which strain of a virus it is ??? no we dont.

Have you read Tylers book ?? after an infusion the body's immune system is depleted and it needs rest.

The SKY virus, team collapsing, death in a hotel room.....you couldnt make up a better mystery matey.

If we are still talking about the death of the soigneur he died in hospital, five days after being admitted. (Unless you want to disbelieve that information too.) All the tackier is Brailsfords use of the death to explain why he hired Leinders. Sepsis blood infection is treated in hospital, not by team doctors. Are Belgian cycling doctors better at preventing infections among soigneurs than British doctors who hasn't been involved in cycling before starting working for Team Sky?

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

Oh, you mean by the Sky apologists? Of course they didn't say anything about that. It was the sceptics who brought it up. I don't remember the reaction of the fanboys - I imagine they didn't go there at all.

Of course I meant them hrotha. Not 'us', the 'haters'.

 

[Cerberus]

Let's not throw out suggestions which are the exact opposite of reality... Across the 3 GTs 2009 is one of the best years post-EPO test.

As I said to Libertine, I might be misremembering and I'll try to get the actual data, obviously if I do misremember it shoots a big fat whole in the already IMO unlikely optimists explanation.

 

[xcleigh]

Of course I meant them hrotha. Not 'us', the 'haters'.

Oh yeah black and white, the lovers and the haters.

 

[sniper]

If sniper is arguing that its extremely stupid. Sceptics can't even get test results or blood profiles. How are we going to get hold of a body yet alone do the tests.

i wasn't arguing that. i know you don't like me, but read posts before judging. thanks

 

[Joachim]

I guess that is what it must look like if your cognitive skills are binary, xcleigh

 

[sniper]

The cremation thing, from DW and reinforced by you and Cycle Chic, beautifully illustrates just how skewed your thinking is. I didn't need to deflect anything. That aspect of that post, and those which followed, are barking mad.

to be sure, the first one following was you.

and yes, i see no problem in discussing it. no conclusions were drawn, it was simply being discussed. no need to panic.

 

[Cycle Chic]

Sky must have paid off the Spanish coroner and Txema's family to keep quiet......Actually on second thoughts, they probably just had them killed....

There's no cover up necessary. Either scenario he died from infected blood...tainted blood bag....it wouldnt take much research to find deaths of cyclists who had died of bad blood bags...do you think their deaths were cited by the coroner as DOPING ???

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

Oh yeah black and white, the lovers and the haters.

Please, note the ''''''''''

Cheerio.

 

[will10]

I'm not really following... are some of you suggesting Txema, a soigneur, was doping himself at the 2010 Vuelta?

 

[hrotha]

I'm not really following... are some of you suggesting Txema, a soigneur, was doping himself at the 2010 Vuelta?

Doing blood transfusions, no less.

They're the same people who speculated about Tondo having been murdered.

 

[sniper]

I'm not really following... are some of you suggesting Txema, a soigneur, was doping himself at the 2010 Vuelta?

we're speculating about the possibility his infection had to do with doping.
alarm code red at sky-bot-camp.

 

[hrotha]

we're speculating about the possibility his infection had to do with doping.
alarm code red at sky-bot-camp.

Speculating. That's such a lame cop-out.

 

[sniper]

Speculating. That's such a lame cop-out.

nah, lame is people making panic over innocent speculation and using it to deflect away from more pertinent issues.

 

[Ferminal]

As I said to Libertine, I might be misremembering and I'll try to get the actual data, obviously if I do misremember it shoots a big fat whole in the already IMO unlikely optimists explanation.

 

[martinvickers]

If sniper is arguing that its extremely stupid. Sceptics can't even get test results or blood profiles. How are we going to get hold of a body yet alone do the tests.

He didn't 'argue it' exactly, but when DW raised it as a possiblity (which wasn't wise; the rest of his stuff bore discussion), he, along with CC, certainly rowed in behind, and started lashing out when it was rebutted.

DW didn't really follow it up, he just left it hanging in the air - i'm sure he's more interested in the genuinely interesting stuff - but Sniper and CC jumped on board with alarming, well, naivite frankly. Since CC is on my ignore list, it was mainly sniper I saw therafter.

Of course, after the event, sniper backtracked, but even here he contradicted himself - one second saying he hadn't said anything about the cremation, as opposed to the death, of Txema,

I simply agreed with Dear Wiggo that Txema's death was fishy, regardless of the cremation.

the next...

And yes, I liked Cycle Chic subsequently pointing out the rareness of cremations among catholics. I thought it was a nice argument.

you know, it occasionally bears remembering, some people in here (and I don't include intelligent sceptics like Dear Wiggo in this) don't just THINK sky dope, or even KNOW sky dope...they WANT sky to have doped; they're emotionally invested in it to justify a personal dislike.

 

[martinvickers]

I'm not really following... are some of you suggesting Txema, a soigneur, was doping himself at the 2010 Vuelta?

sigh...yes. Yes, apparently he MAY have been used as some sort of doping guinea pig for the team. As you do.

F*** me, I'm not sure even Satan Armstrong went as far as Brailsford does - hell, maybe that was Emma O'Reilly's problem all along. She refused to be LA's test dummy.

Again, jesus wept.

 

[martinvickers]

we're speculating about the possibility his infection had to do with doping.
alarm code red at sky-bot-camp.

Alarm code red at the place with the butterfly nets, sniper.

 

[The Hitch]

i wasn't arguing that. i know you don't like me, but read posts before judging. thanks

That's why i said if.

And judging by subsequent posts it does seem to be a theory you are entertaining.

I don't hate you. I don't know you. But some of your wack conspiracy theories are ridiculous.