Geert Leinders

[sniper]

According to the official story he died from a bacterial infection. That seems like a perfectly good explanation to me. The idea that he died from something else seems to really on the fact that he was cremated, but that doesn't really accomplish much.

He was admitted to what I assume was a regular hospital and treated there. If the doctors there believed it was a bacterial infection then there's no need to cremate him because there'd be no autopsy if the doctors didn't suspect something was up. If the doctors did suspect that something was wrong there'd have been an autopsy before he was cremated. If the doctor knew he'd died from something else, but decided to keep it secret, then that's defiantly a conspiracy, and also there'd have been no need to cremate him since the corrupt doctors wouldn't have requested an autopsy.

In summery it seems to me that the notion that he was cremated to keep the "truth" secret is highly unlikely, because the truth probably is that he died from a bacterial infection and because cremation doesn't really accomplish anything even if he did die from doping experiments.

no doubt he really had a blood infection. but how does a (presumably) healthy 43 year old get a blood infection in the first place? More problematic: how does he die of such an infection?

 

[Libertine Seguros]

I favour cremation.

It's because I'd rather be cremated alive than buried alive, as it would be over quicker.

 

[Don't be late Pedro]

no doubt he really had a blood infection. but how does a (presumably) healthy 43 year old get a blood infection in the first place? More problematic: how does he die of such an infection?

You don't think Septicemia is serious?

 

[Dear Wiggo]

I shouldn't have posted about the cremation. Seems the ability to focus on the crux of the post - Geert's use within the team and the topic of this thread - is too difficult to remain focused on.

Apologies.

 

[Don't be late Pedro]

I favour cremation.

It's because I'd rather be cremated alive than buried alive, as it would be over quicker.

I'd prefer to just get a second opinion.

 

[Don't be late Pedro]

Brailsford doesn't have to have knowledge of what happened back in 2010 at the Vuelta. (cf 2008 track WChamps and Mr Team BC 50.3% Hct).

Can you expand on the highlighted?

 

[The Hitch]

After the invention of EPO we have 5 guys who went from being around number 100 in the GC to winning, Indurain, Bjarne Riis, Armstrong, Landis and Wiggins. What that shows is that in the absence of drugs gt talent shows ealy. If you're really optimistic you can say that perhaps Wiggins improvement was due to the diminishing influence of drugs in the peleton, but cycling history rarely validates the optimistic point of view. Bear in mind that Wiggins improvement is actually by a fair margin the largest of the bunch.

though of course that theory runs directly against the theory that clean riders cam.beat drugs cheats. It instead says that the best most talented clean riders lose hours and hours to drugs cheats.

Of course the theory imo is flawed in that wiggins finished 4th in the very doped 2009 tour. So his improvement can't be based on the peloton getting cleaner.

 

[martinvickers]

Can you expand on the highlighted?

Google Rob Hayles

 

[martinvickers]

I shouldn't have posted about the cremation. Seems the ability to focus on the crux of the post - Geert's use within the team and the topic of this thread - is too difficult to remain focused on.

Apologies.

That's the danger of mixing in the 'hint hint' stuff with the stronger arguments, Wiggo.

 

[Froome19]

Why would he have been cremated....assuming he is of the 70.1% in the catholicism faith.??

Sorry. Are you just arguing with Joachim or do you realise what you are implying? This is the real world here not some solve the mystery story.

 

[sniper]

That's the danger of mixing in the 'hint hint' stuff with the stronger arguments, Wiggo.

what danger? the stronger arguments are still there.
the problem is: sky fans jump on the 'hint hint' stuff, as it allows them to ignore the stronger arguments.
case in point joachim's reply to Dear Wiggo's post in which the cremation of Txema was but a small detail:

Oh dear God. Please don't tell me you think Txema was cremated by Sky to cover up drugs they were testing on him.

My father was cremated. Do you think that could have been a cover up too???????????

 

[martinvickers]

what danger? the stronger arguments are still there.
the problem is sky fans jump on the 'hint hint' stuff, as it allows them to ignore the stronger arguments.

Seriously, Sniper, you were pushing at the possibility of Sky deliberately having a guy cremated (like 1 in three of his countrymen) to hide illicit doping experiments. You've pretty much lost your credibility at that point.

The gentle advice was for DW, not you. Because DW does try to pull together some proper analysis - tipping the tin foil hat for him is the exception, not the norm.

So for slow of learning, sniper. The Leinders connection is worth pursuing; it stinks. The Armstrong comments by Wiggins, not as important as some make out, but certainly worth examining, and a black mark on Wiggins.

Dope-Hiding Cremations; not so much.

 

[Froome19]

what danger? the stronger arguments are still there.
the problem is: sky fans jump on the 'hint hint' stuff, as it allows them to ignore the stronger arguments.
case in point joachim's reply to Dear Wiggo's post in which the cremation of Txema was but a small detail:

Maybe it is because we know you will still argue your case and it is funny to see how far you will take it?

DW's theory imo was plausible. I don't agree with it but it is plausible. Leinders is as fishy as it gets with Sky and that is rather fishy. The bit about being Txema being cremated was just pure fallacy though.

 

[Cerberus]

though of course that theory runs directly against the theory that clean riders cam.beat drugs cheats. It instead says that the best most talented clean riders lose hours and hours to drugs cheats.

Of course the theory imo is flawed in that wiggins finished 4th in the very doped 2009 tour. So his improvement can't be based on the peloton getting cleaner.

If memory serves climbing speeds were going down already in 2009 indicating that the 2009 Tour was cleaner than previous editions. That being said cleaner is very different from clean and I've hardly made a secret of which possibility I think is more likely.

 

[Cycle Chic]

Gullible

Sorry. Are you just arguing with Joachim or do you realise what you are implying? This is the real world here not some solve the mystery story.

You obviously believe everything you are told. How do we know that Gonzalez died of blood poisoning ? have you seen the post mortem report ?

When Gilbert, Cadel, Hushovd, Ballan to name a few...are stricken with a VIRUS, do we get told which strain of a virus it is ??? no we dont.

Have you read Tylers book ?? after an infusion the body's immune system is depleted and it needs rest.

The SKY virus, team collapsing, death in a hotel room.....you couldnt make up a better mystery matey.

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

Funny thing, when Dear Wiggo misuges the death of the soigneur/mechanic you guys are 'all over the place', when Brailsford misuses the death of the soigneur to get a known doping doc peeps stay silent. Odd world.

 

[hrotha]

Funny thing, when Dear Wiggo misuges the death of the soigneur/mechanic you guys are 'all over the place', when Brailsford misuses the death of the soigneur to get a known doping doc peeps stay silent. Odd world.

Brailsford's use of Txema's death has been widely labelled as "disgusting" in this here forum.

 

[Joachim]

Sky must have paid off the Spanish coroner and Txema's family to keep quiet.

Actually on second thoughts, they probably just had them killed. Or something.

Keep it up though, Cycle Chic, you are doing a really good job

 

[Joachim]

Brailsford's use of Txema's death has been widely labelled as "disgusting" in this here forum.

Oh did they. Oh. Widely labelled as disgusting on this forum.


Oh. I guess that's settled then.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

If memory serves climbing speeds were going down already in 2009 indicating that the 2009 Tour was cleaner than previous editions. That being said cleaner is very different from clean and I've hardly made a secret of which possibility I think is more likely.

It was also the Tour where the VAM record was broken.

 

[xcleigh]

Funny thing, when Dear Wiggo misuges the death of the soigneur/mechanic you guys are 'all over the place', when Brailsford misuses the death of the soigneur to get a known doping doc peeps stay silent. Odd world.

That's because one (in my opinion) is faintly plausible the other completely not.

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

Brailsford's use of Txema's death has been widely labelled as "disgusting" in this here forum.

I must have missed that part of the Sky apologists hrotha, maybe I am mistaken. Guess Brailsford wanted to be very sure or did he get 2 for the prize of one with also Bartolucci in the package?

 

[hrotha]

I must have missed that part of the Sky apologists hrotha, maybe I am mistaken. Guess Brailsford wanted to be very sure or did he get 2 for the prize of one with also Bartolucci in the package?

Oh, you mean by the Sky apologists? Of course they didn't say anything about that. It was the sceptics who brought it up. I don't remember the reaction of the fanboys - I imagine they didn't go there at all.

 

[The Hitch]

Brailsford's use of Txema's death has been widely labelled as "disgusting" in this here forum.

Mostly if not entirely by sky "haters"

 

[sniper]

Seriously, Sniper, you were pushing at the possibility of Sky deliberately having a guy cremated (like 1 in three of his countrymen) to hide illicit doping experiments. You've pretty much lost your credibility at that point.

The gentle advice was for DW, not you. Because DW does try to pull together some proper analysis - tipping the tin foil hat for him is the exception, not the norm.

So for slow of learning, sniper. The Leinders connection is worth pursuing; it stinks. The Armstrong comments by Wiggins, not as important as some make out, but certainly worth examining, and a black mark on Wiggins.

Dope-Hiding Cremations; not so much.

where, exactly? crickets.

I simply agreed with Dear Wiggo that Txema's death was fishy, regardless of the cremation. The cremation was used by joachim to deflect away from Dear Wiggo's stronger arguments. And yes, I liked Cycle Chic subsequently pointing out the rareness of cremations among catholics. Thought it was a nice argument. It was later rebutted convincingly by Hrotha. It's how forums work.
Now back to the stronger arguments (which indeed carry Dear Wiggo's signature, not mine).