General Doping Thread.

[Rob5091]

ADHD diagnosis or your money back! Yep, Sweden's Government to look into private clinics offering quick ADHD diagnos - of course, nothing to see here!
https://www.dagensmedicin.se/varden...stern-foretagen-saljer-diagnos-mot-betalning/
"There is a structure here that in practice means that you sell a diagnosis for a fee," said Minister of Health and Social Affairs Jakob Forssmed (KD) at a press conference.

Det finns en struktur här som i praktiken innebär att man säljer diagnos mot betalning, säger socialminister Jakob Forssmed (KD) på en pressträff.

 

[Unchained]

ADHD diagnosis or your money back! Yep, Sweden's Government to look into private clinics offering quick ADHD diagnos - of course, nothing to see here!
https://www.dagensmedicin.se/varden...stern-foretagen-saljer-diagnos-mot-betalning/
"There is a structure here that in practice means that you sell a diagnosis for a fee," said Minister of Health and Social Affairs Jakob Forssmed (KD) at a press conference.

So is this something were you pay to get medical confirmation of a disability? Is an ADHD diagnosis grounds for some kind of government payment? In US I could see multiple bizarre benefits, one being you could get easy( easier!!)access to Adderall which is popular for " off label " uses

 

[RedheadDane]

And the prize for biggest idiot (at least of the 2024 season) goes to... this guy:

Dansk U23-rytter får dopingdom

Christian Kornum testede i forbindelse med U23-DM i fjor positiv for stoffet methylphenidat og har fået to års udelukkelse

www.feltet.dk

To sum up:
He tested positive for methylphenidat at the U23 Danish (road) Championships last year.
The day before the race he was writing a study report with some classmates, two of those have ADHD, so they started talking about how Ritalin is frequently used as a 'study drug'. One of his classmates offered to let him try one of her pills, he knew he had a race the next day, but not that Ritalin is on the forbidden list.

Might just be me, but I think generally taking someone else's - even if they offer it - medication to "test how it works as a study drug" is rather stupid; even if you're not doing any sort of sport competition the next day...

 

[Mayomaniac]

And the prize for biggest idiot (at least of the 2024 season) goes to... this guy:

Dansk U23-rytter får dopingdom

Christian Kornum testede i forbindelse med U23-DM i fjor positiv for stoffet methylphenidat og har fået to års udelukkelse

www.feltet.dk

To sum up:
He tested positive for methylphenidat at the U23 Danish (road) Championships last year.
The day before the race he was writing a study report with some classmates, two of those have ADHD, so they started talking about how Ritalin is frequently used as a 'study drug'. One of his classmates offered to let him try one of her pills, he knew he had a race the next day, but not that Ritalin is on the forbidden list.

Might just be me, but I think generally taking someone else's - even if they offer it - medication to "test how it works as a study drug" is rather stupid; even if you're not doing any sort of sport competition the next day...

You know how many people abuse that one to study better, even if they don't have ADHD?

 

[Pontiac]

And the prize for biggest idiot (at least of the 2024 season) goes to... this guy:

Dansk U23-rytter får dopingdom

Christian Kornum testede i forbindelse med U23-DM i fjor positiv for stoffet methylphenidat og har fået to års udelukkelse

www.feltet.dk

To sum up:
He tested positive for methylphenidat at the U23 Danish (road) Championships last year.
The day before the race he was writing a study report with some classmates, two of those have ADHD, so they started talking about how Ritalin is frequently used as a 'study drug'. One of his classmates offered to let him try one of her pills, he knew he had a race the next day, but not that Ritalin is on the forbidden list.

Might just be me, but I think generally taking someone else's - even if they offer it - medication to "test how it works as a study drug" is rather stupid; even if you're not doing any sort of sport competition the next day...

He might be dumb, but at least the guy is genuine "old school"...Ritalin was the popular one back in the pro fields in the '70's. Guys took it as a suppository during the race and it wouldn't show up in the test. No idea how that would work though, LOL.

 

[RedheadDane]

You know how many people abuse that one to study better, even if they don't have ADHD?

Well, that was kinda the discussion they were having... still kinda stupid...
BTW, no words on the grade on that report...

 

[TourOfSardinia]

Apparently (Pre-Tour) German TV ARD are doing a documentary on Doping Today:
I read about it in Italian here:

Doping, nuova inchiesta: Aicar ed Epo sarebbero ancora ben presenti in gruppo e chi vuole parlare è minacciato di morte

Nuova inchiesta doping della TV tedesca che porta a domande e sospetti

cyclingpro.net

 

[steffr222]

Lol actually a boring one by Hajo this time 😂

 

[noob]

And the prize for biggest idiot (at least of the 2024 season) goes to... this guy:

Dansk U23-rytter får dopingdom

Christian Kornum testede i forbindelse med U23-DM i fjor positiv for stoffet methylphenidat og har fået to års udelukkelse

www.feltet.dk

To sum up:
He tested positive for methylphenidat at the U23 Danish (road) Championships last year.
The day before the race he was writing a study report with some classmates, two of those have ADHD, so they started talking about how Ritalin is frequently used as a 'study drug'. One of his classmates offered to let him try one of her pills, he knew he had a race the next day, but not that Ritalin is on the forbidden list.

Might just be me, but I think generally taking someone else's - even if they offer it - medication to "test how it works as a study drug" is rather stupid; even if you're not doing any sort of sport competition the next day...

I have had Ritalin (I still have it at home). It won't help whatsoever the day after it's taken even if it's found in blood. ❤️ Rather the extreme opposite 🙃

 

[noob]

You know how many people abuse that one to study better, even if they don't have ADHD?

Rarely neurotypicals does something illegal least everyone else around them does it, so whoever does it to study get them evaluated and then they might take it legally as well 🤣

 

[RedheadDane]

I have had Ritalin (I still have it at home). It won't help whatsoever the day after it's taken even if it's found in blood. ❤️ Rather the extreme opposite 🙃

You're saying if he hadn't taken it, he could have won?

 

[noob]

You're saying if he hadn't taken it, he could have won?

I've no idea about that. I'm only commenting on methylphenidate. It absolutely won't do anything if it was taken the day before 😊

Maybe if he used it for training. Then it could make some sense. 🌞

 

[Rob5091]

Ok, put on your bifocals, sit back and take a gander at this -
Dekker and Boogerd (according to Dekker's book) got dinepo from Slovenian steeplechaser Boštjan Buč (who got an 18 month ban in 2012 for missing 3 doping tests, then promptly retired). Boštjan Buč's friend, fellow steeplechaser, and coach Simon Vroemen,(from WIKI )

On 11 June 2008, at the age of 39, he won a race in Cottbus in 8:12.50, setting the third-best time of the year in the world and qualifying him for the Olympic Games in Beijing.

After this race, Vroemen requested a doping test and was tested positive for the banned anabolic steroid metandienone. He contested the outcome based on scientific evidence that his (legal) anti-asthma medication caused the test to report false positives. More than 1.5 years after the test and the missed opportunity to run at the Olympics, the Sports Court released Vroemen of the doping charges, based on scientific evidence that the allowed asthma medication triggered the test.

Obviously seems odd to request a doping test, but anyhoo, does this partly explain the raise of asthmatics in sport? Petacchi and Froome's Salbutamol "problems" have always struck me as odd, and Fabio Bartalucci who worked for Team Sky between the end of 2010 and the summer of 2012, said to CN in 2018, (https://www.cyclingnews.com/feature...id-on-teams-medical-practices-and-grey-areas/ )

Bartalucci has often treated riders with asthma during Grand Tours but struggles to understand why Team Sky increased Chris Froome's use of a salbutamol inhaler instead of requesting a Therapeutic Use Exemption (TUE) from the UCI to use Triamcinolone.

I await the reasoned comments and corrections that is always a part of the delightful dialogue of the forum.

 

[thetdog666]

What are the peloton using these days? Still EPO, insulin, cortisone, test, and HGH?

 

[Nomad]

EPO + anabolic steroids/testosterone has been the traditional stack for endurance athletes for decades:

View: https://youtu.be/o5uNN8fwCQE?si=5a0oF_ohvfsrF5cZ

 

[thetdog666]

EPO + anabolic steroids/testosterone has been the traditional stack for endurance athletes for decades:

View: https://youtu.be/o5uNN8fwCQE?si=5a0oF_ohvfsrF5cZ

Just seeing the speed they are going now wondering if something new was out. Im now thinking a motor/motors are involved.

 

[peterfin]

You see a lot of articles like this lately. Science has become the perfect alibi for the sport. No further questions are asked because none of the guys writing the articles can assess if science is sufficient to explain the massive jump in performance. The aero/mechanics improvements and the food tech, in paricular the 120 g/h calories, are seen as the main reasons combined with the robotization of the riders that do exactly what their digital tools tell them to do. While all of this can explain a higher median performance of the riders and a higher average speed of the stages, they fail to see that it does not explain the jump to 7 w/kg for a 40 min climb effort. The only meaningful impact might come from the 120 g/h consumption but that is likely minor too. Has anyone an idea of the potential watt/kg increase by going from 60 to 120 g/h? There are probably semi-pro's here that have data of their own climb performance improvement.

Science Is Winning the Tour de France

Why today’s competitors far surpass the cheating champions of yesteryear

www.theatlantic.com

 

[meat puppet]

Upping on-stage carb intake will definitely improve performance acutely, ie during the stage, and over a gt, since it contributes to (or pre-empts) recovery. It might also ease the non-stage eating loads in a gt context.

One key submax fatigue mechanism is glycogen depletion, so higher carb intake will allow riders to sustain higher fraction of their vo2max during long efforts, and thus boosts w/kg. Hence the importance of the belated discovery of food during the COVID-19 break.

But all said, jumping from say 6w/kg to 6,5 let alone 7 for 40min will require more than (slightly) upping fractional utilization. As in, more total vo2 supply is required too. And the question is how this is achieved.

My oldskool take is that during/since the aderlass players have learned to tweak blood values and doctor the passport-relevant values very effectively. And then there is the question whether the passport is legally a lame duck anyway. Maybe there's some innovative stuff besides the co breathing thing.

 

[Sciatic]

EPO + anabolic steroids/testosterone has been the traditional stack for endurance athletes for decades:

View: https://youtu.be/o5uNN8fwCQE?si=5a0oF_ohvfsrF5cZ

Just a reality check: that needle is huge compared to what's used for those injections (especially the needle for EPO is tiny) but I guess they thought that would get more attention

 

[Rob5091]

10 years ago ... (3rd May 2015 to be exact)
https://hedgehogcycling.co.uk/france-2-micro-dosing-experiment.html

On 3rd May 2015, France 2 broadcast a documentary about a micro-dosing experiment it carried out. Eight athletes took part in a 29-day trial, in which they took micro-doses of EPO and Human Growth Hormone (HGH), as well as re-injecting their own blood, and taking cortico-steroids. This resulted in significant performance improvements in power tests, a time trial, and a 3000m run. ...Pierre Sallet, who also took part as an athlete, said that the values on his biological passport didn't change enough for there to be an anomaly which would be investigated.

 

[Ripper]

Upping on-stage carb intake will definitely improve performance acutely, ie during the stage, and over a gt, since it contributes to (or pre-empts) recovery. It might also ease the non-stage eating loads in a gt context.

One key submax fatigue mechanism is glycogen depletion, so higher carb intake will allow riders to sustain higher fraction of their vo2max during long efforts, and thus boosts w/kg. Hence the importance of the belated discovery of food during the COVID-19 break.

But all said, jumping from say 6w/kg to 6,5 let alone 7 for 40min will require more than (slightly) upping fractional utilization. As in, more total vo2 supply is required too. And the question is how this is achieved.

My oldskool take is that during/since the aderlass players have learned to tweak blood values and doctor the passport-relevant values very effectively. And then there is the question whether the passport is legally a lame duck anyway. Maybe there's some innovative stuff besides the co breathing thing.

There is an argument to be made that all these advancements also improve recovery so that riders can train harder, and that, over time, will also improve times. So the advancements in nutrition and training to elevate the whole of the peloton to some extent. The massive jumps in overall performance are laughably huge though, so it more than the accumulation of the gains (thank you DB).

And yes, the BP is equal parts control, marketing, and internal-control (i.e. team and person docs can help ensure you are within limits)/

 

[meat puppet]

There is an argument to be made that all these advancements also improve recovery so that riders can train harder, and that, over time, will also improve times. So the advancements in nutrition and training to elevate the whole of the peloton to some extent. The massive jumps in overall performance are laughably huge though, so it more than the accumulation of the gains (thank you DB).

And yes, the BP is equal parts control, marketing, and internal-control (i.e. team and person docs can help ensure you are within limits)/

Yes indeed. My point was simply to affirm what is rational in the discovering food argument, and put it in context vis-a-vis the oxygen requirements implied by the new normal long climb numbers.

 

[b0ydman]

Just seeing the speed they are going now wondering if something new was out. Im now thinking a motor/motors are involved.

lot of bread crumbs to muse over in the clinic, its all here, moto and bio, and cardio, oxy, CO, etc

we just don't know. eventually we will