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Generic "OEM" frames out of china on ebay

Jun 8, 2009
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Good luck

I like my teeth/health too much to take a chance on a no name frame. think about it! You have no chance knowing if the frame is constructed/designed properly or even a rejected frame from a production... The chance is maybe not too large, but it's there and you can not tell.
 
Dec 29, 2009
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Speedneedle said:
I like my teeth/health too much to take a chance on a no name frame. think about it! You have no chance knowing if the frame is constructed/designed properly or even a rejected frame from a production... The chance is maybe not too large, but it's there and you can not tell.

probably why he asked about them.

ed rader
 
I agree, you are taking a big risk buying one of these. Why not buy an American made frame instead?

You can get one for about the same cost. Sure it won't be carbon, it will either be CroMoly or Aluminum, but at least you are helping the economy.
 
Mar 13, 2009
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SlantParallelogram said:
I agree, you are taking a big risk buying one of these. Why not buy an American made frame instead?

You can get one for about the same cost. Sure it won't be carbon, it will either be CroMoly or Aluminum, but at least you are helping the economy.

Ever think the OP isn't from the states?
 
Mar 19, 2009
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Both of these frames come from factories that manufacture the big brands. Considering the majority of the frames that pros ride are made in Asia as well, you have nothing to worry about. It's just amazing that some paint and/or decals can jack up the price by thousands. That's what you all should be mad about, not the quality. If anything, Asia is the master of carbon, nobody does it better.
 
RDV4ROUBAIX said:
Both of these frames come from factories that manufacture the big brands. Considering the majority of the frames that pros ride are made in Asia as well, you have nothing to worry about. It's just amazing that some paint and/or decals can jack up the price by thousands. That's what you all should be mad about, not the quality. If anything, Asia is the master of carbon, nobody does it better.

+1

I don't know about the OP's eBay frames, but you can buy many extremely cheap no-name frames from Asia that are made in the same factories, right along side the Specialized or Felt or Scott or ... Those companies take a frame that costs $200 to manufacture, slap a paint job and decals on it, and sell it for $3K - $5k. It is a complete rip off. The cost of the final product is such that there is no reason why they could not manufacture frames in the U.S. For the same price you can buy frames made in the U.S. That does not make sense.
 
Mar 19, 2009
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BroDeal said:
+1

I don't know about the OP's eBay frames, but you can buy many extremely cheap no-name frames from Asia that are made in the same factories, right along side the Specialized or Felt or Scott or ... Those companies take a frame that costs $200 to manufacture, slap a paint job and decals on it, and sell it for $3K - $5k. It is a complete rip off. The cost of the final product is such that there is no reason why they could not manufacture frames in the U.S. For the same price you can buy frames made in the U.S. That does not make sense.

Exactly! Without naming names, thanks to a buddy ( I think you know who I'm talking about BroDeal) I'm basically riding a Scott Addict R1 for a fraction of what it costs retail just because it's a blank. Another Seinfeld quote "retail is for suckers!".... unless it's a MOOTS!
 
RDV4ROUBAIX said:
Exactly! Without naming names, thanks to a buddy ( I think you know who I'm talking about BroDeal) I'm basically riding a Scott Addict R1 for a fraction of what it costs retail just because it's a blank. Another Seinfeld quote "retail is for suckers!".... unless it's a MOOTS!

Don't be clowning on my MOOTS. ;)

I think no-name frames might be a good reaction to cycling becoming the new golf. I am sick and tired of costs spiraling out of control because the sport is now catering to a-holes who buy sh!t to impress other a-holes. Maybe it is best to step off the conveyor completely. You could put a sweet custom paint job on a no-name frame and it would still be cheap. One off decals don't cost much.
 
Nov 28, 2009
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RDV4ROUBAIX said:
Both of these frames come from factories that manufacture the big brands. Considering the majority of the frames that pros ride are made in Asia as well, you have nothing to worry about. It's just amazing that some paint and/or decals can jack up the price by thousands. That's what you all should be mad about, not the quality. If anything, Asia is the master of carbon, nobody does it better.

I think that should read: If anything, Asia is the master of carbon, nobody does it cheaper. These companies spend heaps on R+D and they out source most of their work to Asia to recoup their engineering costs which are not insubstantial.
 
RDV4ROUBAIX said:
Both of these frames come from factories that manufacture the big brands. Considering the majority of the frames that pros ride are made in Asia as well, you have nothing to worry about. It's just amazing that some paint and/or decals can jack up the price by thousands. That's what you all should be mad about, not the quality. If anything, Asia is the master of carbon, nobody does it better.

If you can be absolutely positive that these frames are coming from the same factories that build frames for the big bike companies then it is obviously a bargain.

However, how can anybody be absolutely sure which factory built these frames, AND how come this batch of frames did not get sold to the big bike companies? Was there a problem with this batch of frames? Probably not, except you have no way of knowing.
 
SlantParallelogram said:
I agree, you are taking a big risk buying one of these. Why not buy an American made frame instead?

You can get one for about the same cost. Sure it won't be carbon, it will either be CroMoly or Aluminum, but at least you are helping the economy.

Name an entry level aluminum bike frame made in the US?
 
Mar 19, 2009
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SlantParallelogram said:
If you can be absolutely positive that these frames are coming from the same factories that build frames for the big bike companies then it is obviously a bargain.

However, how can anybody be absolutely sure which factory built these frames, AND how come this batch of frames did not get sold to the big bike companies? Was there a problem with this batch of frames? Probably not, except you have no way of knowing.

Both frames are represented by either brand X or brand Y, the tube shapes are a dead giveaway. However I do agree that ebay isn't the best place to get one of these, because you're right about how there is no way of knowing if these are rejects. Anybody can go to the source and procure a "prototype" direct from the factories, you've just got to be smart about it. Keep in mind also that between China and Taiwan there really isn't that many factories that do this. There's about 2-5 brands coming out of each individual factory.
 
Apr 5, 2010
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Thanks for the replies! The gist of what I'm reading is that the frames are probably fine but you're taking your chances. So we pay big bucks for Specialzed, Cervelo, et al., to stamp a frame as quality checked? That's frustrating. I won't be buying one of these ebay frames; the doubt about quality control would nag me on every descent!

I'm just trying to build up a lightweight bike for hill races. I take to heart the idea of a handmade frame, but the dollars make it out of reach for now. Maybe a used carbon frame is the way to go.

Thanks again!
 
bc_hills said:
Thanks for the replies! The gist of what I'm reading is that the frames are probably fine but you're taking your chances. So we pay big bucks for Specialzed, Cervelo, et al., to stamp a frame as quality checked? That's frustrating. I won't be buying one of these ebay frames; the doubt about quality control would nag me on every descent!

There are legitimate sellers on eBay. I would search other forums for threads similar to this to find people's first hand experience with the frames. You could probably find an online retailer that sells entire bikes using generic frames or house brand labeled generic frames that would be a good deal plus come with a warranty backed by the retailer.
 
Jul 11, 2009
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Go to weightweenies.starbike.com forums and search for pedalforce. You'll get all the reviews you need. And some pics of some seriously light bikes.

In my opinion buying a second hand carbon frame from a guy you dont know is a lot more risky than buying from a company based in Tiawan/US that offers excellent warranty.

Actually, forget that. I have a brand new Bottecchia Ottavio for sale.....nice and cheap!
 
A

Anonymous

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Actual First Hand Experience

bc_hills said:
Thanks for the replies! The gist of what I'm reading is that the frames are probably fine but you're taking your chances. So we pay big bucks for Specialzed, Cervelo, et al., to stamp a frame as quality checked? That's frustrating. I won't be buying one of these ebay frames; the doubt about quality control would nag me on every descent!

I'm just trying to build up a lightweight bike for hill races. I take to heart the idea of a handmade frame, but the dollars make it out of reach for now. Maybe a used carbon frame is the way to go.

Thanks again!

A guy I know cracked his frame. Not having lots of $$ he bought a Hong Kong carbon frame on ebay (around $300) and had the LBS build it up with his existing components. Local bike shop guy said it took a little tweeking but was otherwise just fine. Bike owner said it rode just fine but needed some adjustment (what bike doesn't).

I was thinking about doing the same thing then I realized that I have over 10,000 miles on my mostly Ultegra components. Should I put those on a new frame? Then I started to price getting new components for the carbon frame and it was getting to cost as much or more than getting a built up cheap-ish carbon bike. And honestly, the weight problem I have is between my naval and belt, so I decided to hold out for a bit.

One very nice feature of the No-Name Hong Kong frames is.... No Name! They don't have "isn'tthisacoolbike.com" on every possible surface. There is even one seller on ebay who offers the carbon frames already painted, or custom painted, a nice touch if you are not a "look at me I ride carbon" kind of person.
 
Nov 24, 2009
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RDV4ROUBAIX said:
Both frames are represented by either brand X or brand Y, the tube shapes are a dead giveaway. However I do agree that ebay isn't the best place to get one of these, because you're right about how there is no way of knowing if these are rejects. Anybody can go to the source and procure a "prototype" direct from the factories, you've just got to be smart about it. Keep in mind also that between China and Taiwan there really isn't that many factories that do this. There's about 2-5 brands coming out of each individual factory.

+1

Whoever said that they are only produced out here because it is cheap doesn't understand that Taiwan and China have been investing in Carbon Fibre Development techniques for far longer than European companies, in fact you should probably be more in your bike is not made out here!

I am trying to get to look at one of the factories before I return home, just to get the photo of the Giants, Pinarello's and C'dales rolling off the same factory belt. And I will be laughing at the Freds
 
Apr 5, 2010
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karlboss said:
how much do you want to spend, how light do you want the bike?
I want to spend between 600 and a grand on the frame. Wheels should cost about a grand (mavic reflex, tubulars, american classic hubs). SRAM Force or Ultegra groupset (Not the lightest, but... $$). I'll scrape together other used carbon tidbits (seatpost, seat, handlebars, etc.) or strip my other bikes for parts. Won't be the lightest by any stretch, but relatively affordable and light enough that I really shouldn't blame the bike for any lack of performance!

Any thoughts on this approach? I know it's pushing $3000 and I could get fully built carbon bike for that price, but I'd probably have to replace the wheels right away so not so much of a bargain.

Maybe I should just go on a diet.
 
Mar 22, 2010
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Hey guys, i thought i would shed a little light.

these frames that are pictured. they are not made at one of the "major" carbon companies as a FYI. The major brands out there use companies like Ten Tec [cervelo, scott, 3T, trek], Martec [specialized,G fisher, kuota, kestrel, fuji, bontranger..as well as others] as they are oem and not offering open molds. As these companies are in the manufacturing buisness, not retail which is why you generally do not see them at any tradeshows with there own booths. people go to them, not the other way around.

then there are other smaller companies like--inda [orbea, ridely, etc.] carbontec [pinerello, de rosa...] ADK [all felt, fuji, kestrel, orbea, etc..] dynamic [ teschner, DT, etc..] just to name a few. these guys have smaller shares and all offer open molds. open molds are frames similar to the ones that are in the pics that started this thread. open molds that come from any of the above companies definitely have the R&D and testing to back them up. They all follow CEN testing as guidleines to help limit law suits, etc... and all can be trusted and reliable. They invest in themselves, which is why you see lower prices compared to the "major brands" out there.

one of the earlier posts on this thread talked about the cost of engineering and develpoment as being behind the bigger costs. They are absolutely right. when molds cost bw $60,000--$130,000 on top of the actual price of producing carbon frames, as a Brand, you have to make that cost back somehow. this is why the pricing is like it is. on top of that, if you brake a frame, or a frame brakes because of manufacturing flaws, then the "brands" all support you and take care of you. when you purchase open mold frames from ebay, or other places on the net, there generally is no support because you are getting a supper deal. you also have to figure in the high cost of the software [avg--$6,000-8,000], the engineers, industrial and graphic designers and you have to re-coup these costs somewhere. As another fyi--when companies recoup there costs for molds, you generally see the major companies lessening the cost for consumers, and of course dumbdown the components in order to offer a cheaper frame or bike to consumers.

the frames in the pics are made by a small companiy called Tantuo. they are in Guangdong Provence, in the south of china, near hong kong. i have never dealt with there frames. i am sure that they do testing, etc.. as they are trying to build there buisness and haveing there own brand "Neasty" they have to back there product up and ensure proper testing and manufacturing or people would not come to them for OEM frames [OEM are frames designed and produced specifically for a brand and are not open molds]

As well, some smaller oem companies will of course modify a open mold frame at the cs, or ss of a carbon bike, just to change a little, but more importantly, it gives them a carbon frame,unique for there companies that want a carbon frame in there lineup, but have a smaller budget in which to accomplish this, though very similar to others. this is a great way of starting out for smaller brands and is common practice.

so, being from the industry as a designer and engineer, just remember, you get what you pay for. if you pay for a non branded frame because the price is incredible, i don't have a problem with that, just remember that most likely if something happens your only out the $400 and can just dump that into another $400 frame. when you pay for a frame that comes from a "known" brand and something happens, you will get support in the form of a warrenty, or a huge discount if the broken frame is broken do to neglegance, as major brands want to help you stay on there bikes!

ok, sorry to be winded. take home msg--buy from a company that stands behind there product, in the end you will have a great bike for years, as well as get the support you need for replacement when things go bad. in the end, you end up paying about the same.

all the best shane
 
Mar 6, 2010
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BroDeal said:
Those companies take a frame that costs $200 to manufacture, slap a paint job and decals on it, and sell it for $3K - $5k. It is a complete rip off.

Well, that is somewhat of an oversimplification of the cost of producing and delivering ANY product! You have costs involved in setting up and administering a warranty program, dealer networks, taxes, marketing costs, personnel costs, insurance and legal costs, on and on.... If these companies were making $3k+ on each frame, everybody would be getting into this business and the cost would be lowered by competition. Just like any other business, the materials cost is often a small part of the entire cost of converting raw materials to a quality finished product delivered to a customer.
 
Mar 19, 2009
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Sure, everybody understands that these big companies need to make the bottom line work, we're under no illusions. I always say if you've got the money to spend go with custom, always. Otherwise you're paying for off the shelf stuff that all the other sheep ride and goes through the ringer paying off all those egregious expenses of the big brands. I will never, ever give my money to a company that pays someone 60k a year to decide what kind of annoying swoopy paint and decal combination would look better on a mass produced frame. And boycott those companies that send a$$hole sales reps to the shops and trade shows with fake tans telling you their jarred sauce is just like the homemade stuff that grandma used to make, so buy the blanks from the source if you must. I did and saved 3 almost 4 grand by doing so.;)
 
Mar 22, 2010
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db2112 said:
Well, that is somewhat of an oversimplification of the cost of producing and delivering ANY product! You have costs involved in setting up and administering a warranty program, dealer networks, taxes, marketing costs, personnel costs, insurance and legal costs, on and on.... If these companies were making $3k+ on each frame, everybody would be getting into this business and the cost would be lowered by competition. Just like any other business, the materials cost is often a small part of the entire cost of converting raw materials to a quality finished product delivered to a customer.

Your absolutely right. it is oversimplification on my part as i could easily go into considerably more detail. This is a forum though, so it wasn't necessary.

Also companies aren't makeing $3000 a frame. Briefly, here is how that works, generally take a frame, say $400usd, plus a monocoque fork-$80usd. so your total is $480usd, generally each frame has between a 300-400% markup. say if we use 300% a brand marksup to a dealer--the cost is $1440usd to the dealer. the brand makes a profit of $960usd. the dealer then, say to be conservative uses 200% markup, to make there money back, plus a reasonable profit. that puts the frame in the hands of a consumer for $2880usd retail. Brands usually have the min msrp and a max msrp in order to sell products. so with this, as brief as it is, as well as oversimplified shows you that there is money to be made, which is why brands exist, but yet are actually reasonable for the price you pay.

now i am not saying we shouldn't lower the cost, but there is so much research and development that goes into a frame, that for $960usd per frame the company that brings the said bike to market will eventually make money to not absorb all costs. as well, pricepoints are consently being revised every year and so on! companies that have a good design and sell alot, can then afford to make there losses back earlier and put more money into developing more products. and we haven't even started to discuss marketing the product...etc..there are hugh costs everywhere, on top of supplying pro teams which is a complete money pit, but totally worth it!!

most companies watch each other and the prices are actually very competative for carbon products. where companies really make money, is not in the frames though, it's on completed bikes. assembly, if your numbers are great, are so much cheaper to assemble in asia then elsewhere. as well the products that are spec'd. a company that uses all top shelf componets doesn't make a huge profit. a company that uses mainly lower tier or self branded components make the most. with some exceptions of course, companies that start off a component brand, eventually can offer high quality products for the same reasonable cost as lower tier products because thier numbers are so high they can ask for deeper cuts on the production costs. and if you are one of the really big assemblers--giant, merida and ideal, and you have your own brands, you take home even more profits!

least we forget, we are all in the industry to make great products and make money. it all has a huge cost. consumers, as WE ALL are, have to value, for ourselves that if we buy from solid companies, we might pay more, but we also get more. Always look for the deals though. dealers have to move product at certain times of the year in order to clear inventory, brands have to do the same thing. just always be smart and wether you pay $400 or $1400 hopefully you are happy with your purchase, that's all the really matters!

all the best, shane
 

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