Geraint Thomas, the next british hope

[Saint Unix]

I'd prefer both to the current situation. The first option is the ideal one by a big margin of course, but highly unlikely compared to the second.

All out fireworks between a bunch of doped-to-the-eyeballs competitive riders is at least entertaining to watch compared to the last six Tours, where Sky have completely controlled the races from the get go and Nibali won pretty much by default due to those who could realistically compete with crashing out or focusing on other races.

 

[Mamil]

Re:

What is the consensus on here, do you want it all eradicated or would you prefer if there was another team on the same level and it was just outright war for three weeks.

Option B. In a perfect world option A would be ideal, but there is simply neither the interest, will or technology to make it happen. Option B will never really be fully achievable - there will be always be financial and resource advantages such that a proper level playing field is not possible - but a situation where there are at least 3-4 teams all with somewhat similar levels of money, performance and access to gear, both technological and pharmaceutical, would be great, and far better than what we have now.

Right now we have one team still far ahead of the rest. You got the very strong impression that Thomas, just like Froome in previous years, has had plenty up his sleeve if he'd needed it at this Tour, and he's won comfortably. Yes it must be acknowledged that he has had a lot go his way - only had to attack once, no falls or delays, a super strong team, and rivals who have almost all either crashed, had the Giro in their legs, or have been out of form - but still, for a 32 year-old who has only once previously even attempted to win a GT, the level of dominance is crazy.

 

[MartinGT]

Just had Brailsford on the radio. Apparently they decided in Dec that they would get Thomas ready for the Tour. So either they thought Dawg would be busted or they were gonna go with two leaders which surprises me.

Then GTs ex club coach came on and said not many kids 20 years ago could have a chance at cycling. Oh that's why he's won. Marginal gainz

 

[brownbobby]

Re:

Just had Brailsford on the radio. Apparently they decided in Dec that they would get Thomas ready for the Tour. So either they thought Dawg would be busted or they were gonna go with two leaders which surprises me.

Then GTs ex club coach came on and said not many kids 20 years ago could have a chance at cycling. Oh that's why he's won. Marginal gainz

To the first bit, I think it would be completely sensible and normal for Sky to be contingency planning as soon as they knew about the AAF...also not forgetting Froome had announced the Giro participation by then so they couldn’t be sure how he’d come out of that.

To the second point...anyone had a ‘chance’ to have a go at cycling in the early 2000’s, but the opportunities to get on the kind of development programmes that Thomas enjoyed once picked up by the Olympic programme were only available to a very select group of identified talent in the UK at that time. Outside of the Olympic programme the chances for progressing in the European road scene were indeed limited. I know a few people who raced with Thomas as a junior, by then it was already a 2 tier system, ie the British Cycling kids versus the rest.
Didn’t hear the interview but I’m guessing that’s what he meant?

 

[MartinGT]

The coach (she BTW) was just talking in general to him getting on a bike and turning upto the local club. Far before any Olympic programme etc. Just him turning up in long socks and baggy shorts. Apparently not many kids 20 years ago had that. I and hundreds of other kids in the local area must have been even more fortunate 30+ years ago then!

 

[brownbobby]

Re:

The coach (she BTW) was just talking in general to him getting on a bike and turning upto the local club. Far before any Olympic programme etc. Just him turning up in long socks and baggy shorts. Apparently not many kids 20 years ago had that. I and hundreds of other kids in the local area must have been even more fortunate 30+ years ago then!

Ah ok...well yeah we could all ride bikes in baggy shorts 30 years ago where I grew up too; but who knows what life was like growing up in South Wales :lol:

 

[Mamil]

Re: Re:

Just had Brailsford on the radio. Apparently they decided in Dec that they would get Thomas ready for the Tour. So either they thought Dawg would be busted or they were gonna go with two leaders which surprises me.

Then GTs ex club coach came on and said not many kids 20 years ago could have a chance at cycling. Oh that's why he's won. Marginal gainz

To the first bit, I think it would be completely sensible and normal for Sky to be contingency planning as soon as they knew about the AAF...also not forgetting Froome had announced the Giro participation by then so they couldn’t be sure how he’d come out of that.

Yeah it makes perfect sense that SDB would have a fully-prepped contingency for the Tour. The thing that is both impressive and disturbing is that they can do it with such success and apparent ease. Sky can just pick a rider with the 'right' characteristics and nationality and turn them into a GT winner. The only thing that has previously held them back, mostly at the Giro, has been crashes or Porte, when he was there, finding some new way to screw his chances. One suspects that the more they perfect the model, the more dominant they will become, as is already evident in them now winning 4 GTs in a row. Against this there are signs that a few others are gradually working out the Sky method, and guys like Porte obviously know at least part of it from experience, but the resources and expertise required seem to be hard to acquire.

 

[Robert5091]

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/ger...-before-tour-de-france-procession-into-paris/

'Winning the Tour de France feels surreal'

Yep, my thoughts too!

 

[DFA123]

Re: Re:

Just had Brailsford on the radio. Apparently they decided in Dec that they would get Thomas ready for the Tour. So either they thought Dawg would be busted or they were gonna go with two leaders which surprises me.

Then GTs ex club coach came on and said not many kids 20 years ago could have a chance at cycling. Oh that's why he's won. Marginal gainz

To the second point...anyone had a ‘chance’ to have a go at cycling in the early 2000’s, but the opportunities to get on the kind of development programmes that Thomas enjoyed once picked up by the Olympic programme were only available to a very select group of identified talent in the UK at that time. Outside of the Olympic programme the chances for progressing in the European road scene were indeed limited. I know a few people who raced with Thomas as a junior, by then it was already a 2 tier system, ie the British Cycling kids versus the rest.
Didn’t hear the interview but I’m guessing that’s what he meant?

This kind of stuff is such nonsense. Of course Thomas was one of the very select group of young cyclists in the UK. Pretty much all professional riders, especially those that make it to the world tour, are massive natural talents relative to their peers at youth level, and were the elite standout riders. But only about 0.01% of these elite talents actually go on to win the Tour de France. And only one does it aged 32, having never finished top 10 before.

 

[Robert5091]

So 29 Nov 2017 Dawg says he's doing the Giro/Tour double, then SDB jumps into action and gets Gee ready "just in case" (IF we belive SDB of course).

 

[Brullnux]

It's fine everyone. Brailsford has cleared this up. It isn't a surprise, since Thomas' whole season has been planned around/towards the Tour. Going by the same logic, I'm expecting Guillame Martin, who will also plan his season around the Tour, to win next year.

 

[Fergoose]

Re:

It's fine everyone. Brailsford has cleared this up. It isn't a surprise, since Thomas' whole season has been planned around/towards the Tour. Going by the same logic, I'm expecting Guillame Martin, who will also plan his season around the Tour, to win next year.

The point is more that G showed flashes of his ability as a domestique, staying with GC leaders on climbs even when peaking outside the TDF window. So an improvement when focussing on the TDF is a natural progression.

What amazing rider with peak form in the TDF did Thomas beat here exactly? Who should have been on the podium except for the top 3?

The wider discussion from Brailsford was interesting. He basically said that Lotto Jumbo, Sunweb and Mitchelton Scott are well run and the other teams are a complete joke that will never compete with the above named despite throwing lots of money on riders. Of course it is easy to claim superiority when you have the largest bank balance yourself.

 

[OldCranky]

Re:

now if G can so easily be turned into a winner...why not landa porte or uran?

why are the other team sky riders not demanding their turn.........puzzling?

Mark L

Well with regard to the three you mentioned:

Porte - can't stay on his bike and given his luck, must spend every waking minute that he isn't training or racing smashing mirrors.

Landa - rides for Movistar, a team with 15 GT podiums split between three riders at this tour yet with seemingly no idea how to use them to best effect. I'm not convinced that the team themselves know who is supposed to be the leader at any given time, let alone anybody else.

Uran - has only ridden 7 grand tours since leaving Sky, two of which he didn't finish. He has two 2nd places from the other five, riding for a team that don't have a prayer of controlling GTs in the way that Sky can.

None of those riders would have been leaders at Sky simply because they aren't British and the team made no secret of the fact they wanted British leaders/winners.

As someone has already said it will be interesting to see what their plans are for Bernal. Either they plan to use him as a superdom for a couple of years until they can't possibly keep hold of him with that limitation on his role, at which point he will go to lead another team, or they see him as the long-term leader. If it's option 1 we'll know soon enough because if they still care about wanting British leaders they'll surely be after the Yates brothers and that will be Bernal's cue to find another team.

 

[Rollthedice]

Three years since this thread was started, three years since Thomas learned to climb at 29, three years older than Froome when he discovered he can climb.

 

[hfer07]

Re:

now if G can so easily be turned into a winner...why not landa porte or uran?
why are the other team sky riders not demanding their turn.........puzzling?

Because SKY is an UK team, seeking to promote & embrace UK cycling, UK riders & UK success above the rest of the other riders. That's the very reason behind the departure of Porte, Landa, & Uran.

See- once the Magic Kenyan retires, the next in line are "G" & Rowe- *perhaps D Martin if he joins - so don't even bet on BERNAL ever winning Le Tour-OR a Grand Tour with SKY as a inicial designated leader, but rather under different circumstances/back up as a Plan B ....

 

[simoni]

Re:

Just had Brailsford on the radio. Apparently they decided in Dec that they would get Thomas ready for the Tour. So either they thought Dawg would be busted or they were gonna go with two leaders which surprises me.

Then GTs ex club coach came on and said not many kids 20 years ago could have a chance at cycling. Oh that's why he's won. Marginal gainz

Other possibilities...

1 - A bit of revisionism from Brailsford after the fact as Thomas has surprised them. No beyond him at all.
2 - Hedging their bets - clearly, unless you believe that they had UCI/WADA in their pockets all along, there was a risk that Froome would have a ban so it makes sense to have a viable plan B.

Based on what Thomas has been saying all along, I lean to the latter. There was a plan to have him fit and ready to step in if needed. I suspect they were planning for Froome to win and Thomas to be superdom but that didn't work out. I think they were still working with Froome as plan A up until last Wednesday.

 

[Robert5091]

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2...r-de-france-title-paris-team-sky-chris-froome

Thomas had prepared for his first grand tour by getting his weight down to 67.6kg – 10st 9lb – the lightest in his career, no mean feat at 6ft 1in tall. He also had three high-altitude camps in Tenerife, each of two weeks, and had practised Saturday’s time-trial course in advance in the expectation that it might be crucial.

Damn! Why didn't the other teams think of this?

 

[The Hitch]

Re: Re:

It's fine everyone. Brailsford has cleared this up. It isn't a surprise, since Thomas' whole season has been planned around/towards the Tour. Going by the same logic, I'm expecting Guillame Martin, who will also plan his season around the Tour, to win next year.

The point is more that G showed flashes of his ability as a domestique, staying with GC leaders on climbs even when peaking outside the TDF window. So an improvement when focussing on the TDF is a natural progression.

lol you mean like when Geraint Thomas led the peloton up the Plateu de Beille in 2015 breaking Lance Armstrongs best time on the climb? Don't act like that was a steady progression from track cyclist to wannabe cobble rider to casually breaking Armstrongs time on a climb to winning the TDF and 2 mountain stages.

G's "flashes of brilliance" is an extreme euphemism for what were 2 massive transformations that performed by any none British rider would have all his fans howling with suspicion

 

[The Hitch]

why is quintana or bardet kind of entitled to win the tour, while thomas is not?

I haven't been watching cycling that much recently but when did Quintana or Badret win the Tour?

i remember reading your posts from 2011-2012 when it came to schleck, evans, basso and contador and they really were incredibly reasonable and unbiased. sky obviously could shake your rational essence, The Hitch. seeimingly, something puts them at an unthinkable level in terms of hypocrisy and doping practises.

Yeah well thats obvious BS isn't it? I said Schleck doped. I said Basso doped. I said Evans doped. I said Contador doped. I said Basso doped. You seem to be making things up

 

[The Hitch]

Re:

ps if it had not been a team sky rider imagine how many here would be delighted...that it
as not froome...............win for an unexpected rider who had not previously achieved
success in the tour...........

Ah the old - "everyone just hates Froome for other reasons" sleight of hand.

Some don't like Froome cos they are Contador fans and want him to lose.

Some don't like Froome cos he's a fraud and want him to win, as much as possible so that history wont be able to seperate him from Armstrong.

 

[MartinGT]

Re: Re:

It's fine everyone. Brailsford has cleared this up. It isn't a surprise, since Thomas' whole season has been planned around/towards the Tour. Going by the same logic, I'm expecting Guillame Martin, who will also plan his season around the Tour, to win next year.

The point is more that G showed flashes of his ability as a domestique, staying with GC leaders on climbs even when peaking outside the TDF window. So an improvement when focussing on the TDF is a natural progression.

lol you mean like when Geraint Thomas led the peloton up the Plateu de Beille in 2015 breaking Lance Armstrongs best time on the climb? Don't act like that was a steady progression from track cyclist to wannabe cobble rider to casually breaking Armstrongs time on a climb to winning the TDF and 2 mountain stages.

G's "flashes of brilliance" is an extreme euphemism for what were 2 massive transformations that performed by any none British rider would have all his fans howling with suspicion

There needs to be an applaud emoji on this board.

 

[dacooley]

why is quintana or bardet kind of entitled to win the tour, while thomas is not?

I haven't been watching cycling that much recently but when did Quintana or Badret win the Tour?

i remember reading your posts from 2011-2012 when it came to schleck, evans, basso and contador and they really were incredibly reasonable and unbiased. sky obviously could shake your rational essence, The Hitch. seeimingly, something puts them at an unthinkable level in terms of hypocrisy and doping practises.

Yeah well thats obvious BS isn't it? I said Schleck doped. I said Basso doped. I said Evans doped. I said Contador doped. I said Basso doped. You seem to be making things up

yes, but the policy of your posting comes down to the theory that sky winning big races with froome and thomas is not how cycling should be like while contador and schleck ruling in the tour was perfectly normal. that's what i was saying about.

 

[Roninho]

I wanted to say this is just Bjarne Riis all over again. But at least Riis had finished 3rd and 5th before in the TDF.

This is a guy who is 32 years old, who prior to this Tour never finished better then 15th in a GT, afaik never managed to have more then 1 decent mountain stage result (6th in 10th stage 2015), who out of the blue became the best rider and climber in the Tour who happens to win Sky's 5th TDF win in 6 years with 3 riders each one having a unique transformation into GC cyclist. To quote Jan Ullrich 'if you cannot add 1+1 then i cannot help you'.

 

[hrotha]

Re:

I wanted to say this is just Bjarne Riis all over again. But at least Riis had finished 3rd and 5th before in the TDF.

(Riis + Landis) / 2

 

[Rollthedice]

Re: Re:

I wanted to say this is just Bjarne Riis all over again. But at least Riis had finished 3rd and 5th before in the TDF.

(Riis + Landis) / 2

Riis was a promising junior and Froome a child prodigy compared to Thomas. Worst GC placings by a future Tour de France winner in the last 50 years: (Via L'Equipe)