Gesink Discussion Thread

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May 31, 2011
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theyoungest said:
Is it though? Gesink was winning races at an age when Boogerd hadn't even turned pro yet, I'd say that's pretty relevant if he says they're at the wrong team to perform.
No, you don't get it. What he means is, Boogerd didn't even turn pro at that age, cause of the differance in time. What you see now, youngsters like Sagan performing really well, is quite new. Say in the ninetees, the gap between fresh pros and riders nearing their thirties was bigger than it is now, so you can't compare it. The point is, If Boogerd would have been age 20 today, he could probably turn pro at age 21 as well and get the opportunity to win those races.
 
Jun 22, 2009
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Azabael said:
No, you don't get it. What he means is, Boogerd didn't even turn pro at that age, cause of the differance in time. What you see now, youngsters like Sagan performing really well, is quite new. Say in the ninetees, the gap between fresh pros and riders nearing their thirties was bigger than it is now, so you can't compare it. The point is, If Boogerd would have been age 20 today, he could probably turn pro at age 21 as well and get the opportunity to win those races.
but boogerd then disregards the difference in times, himself. Hardly an objective opinion.
 
Jul 16, 2010
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I know where Boogerd is coming from, still angry because he didn't get a job with Rabobank after his retirement, but he does make some valid points though. Rabobank rarely criticize their riders. Some of their post-race press releases are ridiculous to say the least.
 
Jun 22, 2009
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El Pistolero said:
I know where Boogerd is coming from, still angry because he didn't get a job with Rabobank after his retirement, but he does make some valid points though. Rabobank rarely criticize their riders. Some of their post-race press releases are ridiculous to say the least.
meh press releases say little. And of course different teams, have different approaches (I assure you they're not the only team). I agree with the concept that riders might get 'cozy' with the rabobank team, we've seen some pretty wasted talents down the track... but for a rider like Gesink who is very self-motivated this is not such an issue. Rather the support I would think helps a rider like gesink.

Anyway Boogerd omission from the team after (forced?) retirement, depicts a seedy and predictable picture.
 
Azabael said:
No, you don't get it. What he means is, Boogerd didn't even turn pro at that age, cause of the differance in time. What you see now, youngsters like Sagan performing really well, is quite new. Say in the ninetees, the gap between fresh pros and riders nearing their thirties was bigger than it is now, so you can't compare it. The point is, If Boogerd would have been age 20 today, he could probably turn pro at age 21 as well and get the opportunity to win those races.
Let me refer you to timmy's post directly under your own. You can't compare these two guys to Sagan, he's not a stage racer. What other guys from their generation already have a top-5 in a GT under their belts?

Boogerd is just an impatient, frustrated figure (and ex-employee). That's okay, but he doesn't have to stress it in every media outing.
 
theyoungest said:
Let me refer you to timmy's post directly under your own. You can't compare these two guys to Sagan, he's not a stage racer. What other guys from their generation already have a top-5 in a GT under their belts?

Boogerd is just an impatient, frustrated figure (and ex-employee). That's okay, but he doesn't have to stress it in every media outing.
He wasn't comparing Sagan to Gesink & Mollema, but to Boogerd.
 
hrotha said:
He wasn't comparing Sagan to Gesink & Mollema, but to Boogerd.
He was making the point (like you did) about riders turning pro at a younger age, and being successful, and Boogerd not having had the chance to do so. Automatically the best of them all gets mentioned, Sagan. But I think that's an irrelevant comparison, both to Boogerd and to the young Dutchies.

Stage racers still need more time to mature, with the exception of Contador and Schleck. But Gesink and Mollema are no Contador and Schleck.
 
May 31, 2011
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theyoungest said:
He was making the point (like you did) about riders turning pro at a younger age, and being successful, and Boogerd not having had the chance to do so. Automatically the best of them all gets mentioned, Sagan. But I think that's an irrelevant comparison, both to Boogerd and to the young Dutchies.

Stage racers still need more time to mature, with the exception of Contador and Schleck. But Gesink and Mollema are no Contador and Schleck.
Unfortunately, still wrong. I thought it was clear in my post that I was comparing Gesink to Boogerd. I was pointing out how Gesink has had the chance to ride among the pro ranks at a younger age than Boogerd, thus Gesink had the opportunity, note the emphasizing, where Boogerd didn't. Therefore you cannot compare them and say Gesink already brought home those wins at an earlier age.

Bringing Sagan as an example to strengthen that point, might have been what confused you. You see, there are two points made in that post. The one I just described and the fact the sport transformed a little to a point where youngsters are given the opportunity at an earlier age. And I definitely think your attempt to invalid my example is invalid itself. It's nonsense stage racers need more time to develop. Undeniable numbers:

This year's PR: 1 top10 rider is 25 or younger
This year's RvV: 1 top10 rider is 25 or younger
This year's LBL: 2 top10 riders are 25 or younger
This year's AGR: 2 top10 riders are 25 or younger

This year's Giro: 3 top10 riders are 25 or younger
This year's PN: 3 top10 riders are 25 or younger
This year's TA: 3 top10 riders are 25 or younger

So me using Sagan as an example looks pretty okay to me as long he isn't a pure sprinter. But as those numbers show, I could have used others in my example as well.
 
Azabael said:
Unfortunately, still wrong. I thought it was clear in my post that I was comparing Gesink to Boogerd. I was pointing out how Gesink has had the chance to ride among the pro ranks at a younger age than Boogerd, thus Gesink had the opportunity, note the emphasizing, where Boogerd didn't. Therefore you cannot compare them and say Gesink already brought home those wins at an earlier age.

Bringing Sagan as an example to strengthen that point, might have been what confused you.
Now you're just confusing posters.

You see, there are two points made in that post. The one I just described and the fact the sport transformed a little to a point where youngsters are given the opportunity at an earlier age. And I definitely think your attempt to invalid my example is invalid itself. It's nonsense stage racers need more time to develop. Undeniable numbers:

This year's PR: 1 top10 rider is 25 or younger
This year's RvV: 1 top10 rider is 25 or younger
This year's LBL: 2 top10 riders are 25 or younger
This year's AGR: 2 top10 riders are 25 or younger

This year's Giro: 3 top10 riders are 25 or younger
This year's PN: 3 top10 riders are 25 or younger
This year's TA: 3 top10 riders are 25 or younger

So me using Sagan as an example looks pretty okay to me as long he isn't a pure sprinter. But as those numbers show, I could have used others in my example as well.
I mean GT racers, not necessarily stage racers. This year's Giro is indeed an interesting case, but remember that Gesink already got a top-10 in the Vuelta at age 22.

I think my point is pretty self-evident... how many 22-year-olds get that far in a GT? Maybe Boogerd thinks Gesink would already have won a GT on another team, or an Ardennes classic, but frankly I don´t think so. You can´t blame everything on the team.

Sagan isn't a pure sprinter, but precisely the fact that he has a strong sprint means he can win races from a very young age. And why should we compare the Dutchies to such a super talent anyway? Neither of them have the class, or the pure talent, of Peter Sagan. If he's the benchmark they might as well give up.
 
Jun 22, 2009
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Dekker_Tifosi said:
Gesink was asked today what he would do if he fell in the TDF again. He said that unlike last year he wouldn't continue on fighting an unfair battle, but would give up and focus on the Vuelta immediately.
I saw that and was pretty pleased with the statement :p

@theyoungest thanks, nice vid.
Still pretty unsure of how he will go at le tour. Hopefully he can stay crash/injury free for the foreseeable future.
 
Dekker_Tifosi said:
No I mean altitude after effects, like the one he had last year in Dauphine where he was crappy in the first hilly stages.
He simply didn't want to go into the red on those stages, that's different. He did suck in the Dutch nationals, one day after returning from his next altitude training.
 
Apr 1, 2009
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I seriously thought he had a chance of winning the overall.
Podium at least.
Shame, but to be expected from Gesink.
 

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