• The Cycling News forum is looking to add some volunteer moderators with Red Rick's recent retirement. If you're interested in helping keep our discussions on track, send a direct message to @SHaines here on the forum, or use the Contact Us form to message the Community Team.

    In the meanwhile, please use the Report option if you see a post that doesn't fit within the forum rules.

    Thanks!

Gesink or Menchov for the 2010 Tour?

Oct 8, 2009
79
0
0
Visit site
A couple of weeks ago, the general manager of the Rabobank team was a guest in a TV show in the Netherlands. He then said the following..:

Knebel: ''Gesink will be riding the Tour next year.''
Interviewer: ''What about Menchov?''
Knebel: ''We'll have to see about that.''

What do you guys think about this? I think Gesink has huge potential, but being Dutch myself, I want to make sure that I'm not viewing him with pink glasses on, since he's the only Dutch hope in a general classification in a GT. I like Menchov very much, but I don't think he can win the Tour, he comes up short in the highest mountains. However, he CAN win the Giro and the Vuelta. Gesink I think is much more capable of following the best riders in the high mountains, and if he can improve his time trial (which he has done already, but I think there's still room for improvement, since he's only 23), I think he could be a bigger contender for the podium in the Tour than Menchov. On the other hand, he's only done 2 GT's in his short career, although he came 7th and 6th. But we all know the Tour is still a different animal when compared to the other GT's. So you could say it might be too early to build the entire Rabobank team around him for the Tour. And more, if Menchov isn't riding, who of Rabo is there to help him in the mountains?

So how would you compare the two? Who stands the biggest chance to do well in the Tour next year? Which rider would you play out for each GT if you were Rabobank? Is it too early to build a team around Gesink for the Tour?
 
I think there is probably more than just the sport itself involved in who rides what races. The fact that Gesink is dutch gives him a big advantage in the fight to get the tour captain spot simply because of politics. I think after the showing Gesink had in this years Vuelta and after having had to abandon the Tour it's pretty obvious that Rabo would want to focus on him.
 
Oct 8, 2009
79
0
0
Visit site
ingsve said:
The fact that Gesink is dutch gives him a big advantage in the fight to get the tour captain spot simply because of politics.

Although that is true, you cannot forget the fact that Menchov has won 3 GT's (2 Vuelta's and 1 Giro) and has also finished 3rd and 5th in the Tour. You are right though, the hype will probably be bigger when Gesink is doing well than when Menchov is. However, I can vividly remember the hype when Rasmussen was in the yellow jersey.

Personally, I would always put the competetive aspect first, and disregard any other aspects. This is a professional sport, a Pro-Tour team should always aim for the highest.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Both.

Menchov is more of a defender in the mountains with a solid TT. Gesink, an attacker in the mountains, and a weaker TT.

Basically, with differing characteristics, then having both of them is a perfect strategy for Rabo. Let Gesink attack in the mountains, and menchov can then relax in the group of GC favourites on the climb, rather than one of them having to follow all the attacks.

I think unless you are a superior rider (Contador) there is no need to have ONE leader and EIGHT helpers. TWO leaders and SEVEN helpers can work just fine. Rabo would be stupid not to include both, IMO.

More importantly, in 2010, neither Menchov or Gesink can/will win the tour, so achieving two guys in the top ten (or one in top 5, one in top 10) is a better strategy than having just one in the top 10.

Nibali, Kreuziger & Basso
Evans, VDB
Wiggins, VDV
Armstrong, Levi & Kloden
Andy, Frank Schleck

The pattern here? - co-leadership for GC is the way cycling is going, expecially when Contador is almost unbeatable at this stage in his career. better to have two guys aiming for podiums, than one guy with all the pressure (especially a young guy like gesink)
 
Mountain Goat said:
Both.

Menchov is more of a defender in the mountains with a solid TT. Gesink, an attacker in the mountains, and a weaker TT.

Basically, with differing characteristics, then having both of them is a perfect strategy for Rabo. Let Gesink attack in the mountains, and menchov can then relax in the group of GC favourites on the climb, rather than one of them having to follow all the attacks.

I think unless you are a superior rider (Contador) there is no need to have ONE leader and EIGHT helpers. TWO leaders and SEVEN helpers can work just fine. Rabo would be stupid not to include both, IMO.

More importantly, in 2010, neither Menchov or Gesink can/will win the tour, so achieving two guys in the top ten (or one in top 5, one in top 10) is a better strategy than having just one in the top 10.

Nibali, Kreuziger & Basso
Evans, VDB
Wiggins, VDV
Armstrong, Levi & Kloden
Andy, Frank Schleck

The pattern here? - co-leadership for GC is the way cycling is going, expecially when Contador is almost unbeatable at this stage in his career. better to have two guys aiming for podiums, than one guy with all the pressure (especially a young guy like gesink)

Co-leaderships are a tricky business. Unless the leaders have a very good understanding it's quite possible that it's simply building in conflicts in a team that might risk ruining more than helping.

Radioshack can work because it's not really a co-leadership there. Levi and Klodi are expected to ride for Lance no matter what but if they are high up in the GC it's a bonus for them especially if Lance falls through.

Andy and Fränk are brothers so they might have a good chance of getting along but there is a clear hierarchy there at the moment with Andy on top.

Wiggins and VdV can work because I don't think VdV has any problems riding for Wiggins or even Contador if that deal ever happens.

Evans and VdB however is a powderkeg waiting to happen. VdB is on the rise and will only get better so they are getting to a point soon where the natural hierarchy is challenged.

The same is true with Kreuziger and Nibali. I have gotten the impression that Kreuziger is not interested in playing second fiddle to anyone. And if he and Nibali continue to improve evenly there will be conflicts possible there imo.
 
Apr 1, 2009
187
0
0
Visit site
Whichever one of them is actually able to stay on the bike next season. That should rule Mencov out although Gesinks knee would have other things to say.
 
Jul 18, 2009
202
0
0
Visit site
Menchov will surely defend giro crown and skip tour after this years troubles. Possibly Giro/Vuelta for him which would be a bigger break.
Didn't get to see enough of Gesink in TdF to make anything of his overall chances.
 
All other things being equal (that is to say pre-Tour form, the course, potential doping scandals) I say you go with Menchov. Gesink certainly has the potential to podium in the Tour one day, and he showed good form in the Vuelta, but until there is marked improvement in his TT ability I would say a podium in the Tour is still beyond his reach. Therefore you go with the Russian who has proven GC ability, even if beating Contador is also beyond his capabilities.
 
Mar 10, 2009
7,268
1
0
Visit site
The good thing is that Breukink isn't going to be in the driver's seat anymore, so he can't make any bad calls (active)/or not make any calls at all (passive) throughout the race. To me it looks like van Houwelingen has a better impact on the riders (w/ Menchov 2 weeks Giro and 2x Vuelta).

Knebel obviously said that to please the Dutch fanbase, perhaps especially the 'telegraaf' reader who isn't very pro-xeno...
 
Sep 25, 2009
7,527
1
0
Visit site
i think rabobank’s management’s decision will depend on the tour’s parcourse and the individual inclinations and form of both riders. if we learn today that there will be lots of time trialing menchov would seem a more logical choice. if aso throws in 6 mountain top finishes I’d give preference to gesink. i understand menchov and gesink get along quite well with each other and that menchov enjoys good relations with the rest of the team. this makes a two leader approach quite feasible with the one doing better by the third week eventually consolidating the rest of the team. somehow i don.t believe menchov will be riding the tour next year if gesink is on form. i liked his vuelta and was sure he'll podium if not for that stupid crash. we also have to remember that menchov has the third best gt palmeras among the currently active riders and that experience counts for a lot in a 3 week gt.
 
Oct 6, 2009
5,270
2
0
Visit site
I'm guessing they will go with Gesink for the Tour. He looked strong in the Vuelta until the crash, and still managed to soldier on in the TT pretty well, given the knee injury. Menchov can defend the maglia rosa.
 

flicker

BANNED
Aug 17, 2009
4,153
0
0
Visit site
Le Tour

I like Menchov in the tour but only if he focus on tour. He is older and tougher than Gesink. I like Gesink in a few years but Menchov is the man now.
 
I would put Menchov as leader but hold Gesink in a free role. If Menchov is having a mare, then give free reign to Gesink. I dont think either are realsitic contenders but Gesink has more potential to stir things up. Menchov is a follower, not an attacking rider.
 
Gesink is on the rise. Menchov has had ample opportunity to get the job done at the Tour, but he has never come through. He had his chances, so go with Gesink.

Menchov should concentrate on the other two GTs where the competition is a notch below that of the Tour.
 
May 17, 2009
126
0
0
Visit site
Menchov is a joke. But hey, if the Dutch are happy to have their number one man riding in service of a Humanplasma customer, who am I to complain?
 
Aug 9, 2009
505
0
0
Visit site
samb01 said:
Menchov is a joke. But hey, if the Dutch are happy to have their number one man riding in service of a Humanplasma customer, who am I to complain?

How can the man who won this year's Giro be a joke? Please enlighten me.
 
Jun 16, 2009
19,654
2
0
Visit site
I see more potential in gesink than Jurgen van den Breakaway. I think gesink can tt but for van den breakaway, he just doesn't have it in the tt. Both of these teams are forgetting the amount of wins, high placings and publicity they have gotten for their team and to push riders like Menchov and evans aside is wrong.
 

flicker

BANNED
Aug 17, 2009
4,153
0
0
Visit site
Menchov

The Giro is a tough race. I don't know if it is harder then the tour, I don't think Le Mond won it but he did win the tour 3 times. Ask the athletes. The Italians give it there all and they have not won for a few years which tells me its tough. Menchov was burned out at the tour. I think Merckx has won the Giro and tour in the same year but then again he is Merckx no one else compares except Coppi and Anquentil.
 
auscyclefan94 said:
I see more potential in gesink than Jurgen van den Breakaway. I think gesink can tt but for van den breakaway, he just doesn't have it in the tt. Both of these teams are forgetting the amount of wins, high placings and publicity they have gotten for their team and to push riders like Menchov and evans aside is wrong.

Ummm.... Was that ever in doubt?
 

TRENDING THREADS