Gilbert V Cancellara - who is the best one day rider of this generation?

[Panda Claws]

Cancellara doesn't focus on all that many other things.

He focuses on:

-One-day races
-ITT
-Sometimes a stage race (Tour de suisse etc...)
-Lots of domestique work

Gilbert focuses on:

-One-day races
-Sometimes a stage race (Ronde van België etc...)
-Stage wins (Cancellara doesn't seem to mind anymore)

But these 'side-activities' should not play a role in the voting.
After all the question is who the best one day rider of his generation is.

If it was about the best rider overall then Contador says hi.

 

[theyoungest]

Gilbert could have won Ronde van Vlaanderen 2011.

How? He sure as hell tried.

You're like a Light version of El Pistolero.

 

[Panda Claws]

How? He sure as hell tried.

You're like a Light version of El Pistolero.

If you are the best on the bosberg then you could have followed Cancellara's late attack as well.

Then again it is shoulda coulda woulda.

 

[El Pistolero]

Just ignore theyoungest, he's a heavy version of Dekker_Tifosi.

He could have won the Ronde if he co-operated with Ballan after the Bosberg, enough said. But in the end, Nuyens won fairly, so who cares.

 

[El Pistolero]

Does Boonen dominate races the way Cancellara and Gilbert do?

He is amazingly talented and a great rider but in terms of pure talent those 2 are incomparable to any one else which includes Boonen and co.
Any anyway you can argue that to include Boonen would be disproportionate as it means there too little an overlap between Gilbert at his peak and Boonen at his peak.

Boonen has dominated Cancellara a lot in races. Seriously, re-watch some races from 2004-2009.

 

[Froome19]

Boonen has dominated Cancellara a lot in races. Seriously, re-watch some races from 2004-2009.

Not this generation
Edit: The title should really be from 2009+ as Gilbert wasnt really a force before and this generation is probably more applicable for such a time period.

 

[El Pistolero]

Boonen and Cancellara are from the same generation. 5 Monuments, 2 classics, 1 world championship and countless of other one day races >>>>>>>>> 4 Monuments, 0 classics and 0 world championships.

Yes only the road race counts here. A lot more prestigious than the time trial event. One day races= not time trials I'm afraid. Otherwise you can just make a thread about who's the best time trial specialist or something.

 

[jens_attacks]

gilbert 'cause i like him better

 

[Froome19]

Boonen and Cancellara are from the same generation. 5 Monuments, 2 classics, 1 world championship and countless of other one day races >>>>>>>>> 4 Monuments, 0 classics and 0 world championships.

Yes only the road race counts here. A lot more prestigious than the time trial event. One day races= not time trials I'm afraid. Otherwise you can just make a thread about who's the best time trial specialist or something.

Go back and read my first post about Boonen

 

[El Pistolero]

You're going to feel stupid when Boonen wins the Ronde and Roubaix this year

 

[Froome19]

You're going to feel stupid when Boonen wins the Ronde and Roubaix this year

I can only hope he does, but realistically any sane person would admit that Cancellara has a greater chance of winning those races.

 

[El Pistolero]

Cancellara has a new nickname. Santa Clause, because he gives away victories in Monuments. Suits him much better than Spartacus.

 

[The Hitch]

The best one day rider of his generation will end up with the best palmares in one day races.

No the best rider is not necessarily the one with the best palmares.

Unless you believe that o perreiro was as good a tour rider as Marco Pantani and Jan Ullrich

 

[El Pistolero]

No the best rider is not necessarily the one with the best palmares.

Unless you believe that o perreiro was as good a tour rider as Marco Pantani and Jan Ullrich

They aren't one day racers. Besides, Pantani won the Giro-Tour double which makes him better than Pereiro. Jan Ullrich was certainly equal to Pantani. Being mentally strong is just another side of the coin of being the best cyclist in a given category. Pantani clearly lacked in that aspect and someone like Armstrong didn't.

The best one day racer will end up with the better palmares unless something tragic happens in their career. Luckily for Boonen, Gilbert and Cancellara that hasn't happened and hopefully will never happen. The title isn't "who is the strongest", it's "who is the best".

What makes someone the best in cycling?

- Being tactically strong.
- Being physically strong.
- Being mentally strong.

Only a big champion combines all those 3 aspects.

 

[The Hitch]

They aren't one day racers. Besides, Pantani won the Giro-Tour double which makes him better than Pereiro. Jan Ullrich was certainly equal to Pantani. Being mentally strong is just another side of the coin of being the best cyclist in a given category. Pantani clearly lacked in that aspect and someone like Armstrong didn't.

The best one day racer will end up with the better palmares unless something tragic happens in their career. Luckily for Boonen, Gilbert and Cancellara that hasn't happened and hopefully will never happen. The title isn't "who is the strongest", it's "who is the best".


ts.

So you are saying that in gts where the strongest rider can make big gaps on mtfs and tts the one with the best palmares isn't necessarily the beat whereas in monuments where luck plays a bigger part and winners are far less predictable the best palmares does mean the best rider ?
Some classic el p logic right there.

 

[El Pistolero]

I didn't say that. You're comparing apples to oranges all of a sudden for no apparent reason. Let's keep this discussion about one day racers and not about GT riders? It makes no sense to all of a sudden start a discussion involving Pantani here.

The best one day racer will end up with the best palmares. The best GT rider will also end up with the best palmares by the way. Contador, Armstrong, Indurain, Lemond(tragic accident), etc

Ps: there's a fair amount of luck involved in both one day races and Grand Tours. People crash out daily in the Tour de France. Just look at last year. If Paris-Roubaix is so unpredictable than why do we always see the same guys on the front?

 

[Froome19]

I didn't say that. You're comparing apples to oranges all of a sudden for no apparent reason. Let's keep this discussion about one day racers and not about GT riders? It makes no sense to all of a sudden start a discussion involving Pantani here.

The best one day racer will end up with the best palmares. The best GT rider will also end up with the best palmares by the way. Contador, Armstrong, Indurain, Lemond(tragic accident), etc

Ps: there's a fair amount of luck involved in both one day races and Grand Tours. People crash out daily in the Tour de France. Just look at last year. If Paris-Roubaix is so unpredictable than why do we always see the same guys on the front?

I believe that whilst one day races always do invlolve the best having the best palmares it is not necessarily so with Gt riders as they have a much more limited amount of opportunities in gts.
Of course the majority do as you gave examples of, but some of them are down to fluke, for example a gap year in the tour with one Gt favorite going out and another one just coming in (2006) etc.

 

[Netserk]

Ask this again when one of the two wins anything comparable to RVV+PR+WRR in the same year

 

[Panda Claws]

ask this again when one of the two wins anything comparable to rvv+pr+wrr in the same year

lbl + agr + fw + css + gpq + msb

I don't know seems pretty close.

 

[Netserk]

lbl + agr + fw + css + gpq + msb ?

1 monument no worlds just isn't as good

EDIT: And if you are counting a race like gpq, then you should also count E3

 

[Peyote]

I voted Gilbert. But it's really close. And I think you can add Boonen, who still has the best record until now.

 

[Flamin]

Cancellara.

First of all, a 50km solo in Paris-Roubaix is worth the prestige of 3 monument wins already. This, and considering Canc has more monuments under his belt anyway, cuts the deal. And second of all, lets wait and see how Gilbert will handle things being a real marked man (Valverde says hi), instead of having two perfect partners in crime alias the Schleck brothers, towing him up to Liège. Spartacus would have won another 3 more if someone actually did just 10% of the Schleck's job back that day

 

[Panda Claws]

Cancellara.

First of all, a 50km solo in Paris-Roubaix is worth the prestige of 3 monument wins already. This, and considering Canc has more monuments under his belt anyway, cuts the deal. And second of all, lets wait and see how Gilbert will handle things being a real marked man (Valverde says hi), instead of having two perfect partners in crime alias the Schleck brothers, towing him up to Liège. Spartacus would have won another 3 more if someone actually did just 10% of the Schleck's job back that day

Let's not underestimate Gilbert's strength that day.
When the Schlecks went everyone else was already in the red and could not react.

Still Gilbert did react slowly, not even coming out of the saddle. Can you imagine that? Can you imagine being forced to watch the #1 marked man just riding away not even exerting himself with you being powerless to stop him?

Gilbert simply plays his cards better than Cancellara, why would he ride away if he could just demoralize the Schlecks completely by attacking himself?
Gilbert was simply toying with the Schlecks that day, Cancellara as it would seem cannot play the game.

 

[pmcg76]

Cancellara.

First of all, a 50km solo in Paris-Roubaix is worth the prestige of 3 monument wins already. This, and considering Canc has more monuments under his belt anyway, cuts the deal. And second of all, lets wait and see how Gilbert will handle things being a real marked man (Valverde says hi), instead of having two perfect partners in crime alias the Schleck brothers, towing him up to Liège. Spartacus would have won another 3 more if someone actually did just 10% of the Schleck's job back that day

Firstly, what exactly do you count as monuments here, it seems only Milan-San Remo, Flanders and Roubaix count for you. I hate to break it to you but L-B-L, Fleche Wallone, Lombardy and Paris-Tours are all monuments too so Gilbert has more. As was pointed out already under the old World Cup format, Gilbert would have won it many times already, Cancellara not so much.

How is a 50km solo better than 3 monuments, next you will be saying Hinault was a better classics rider than Kelly because he won an epic L-B-L by almost 10 minutes in freezing conditions where he lost power in his little finger.

 

[Froome19]

Firstly, what exactly do you count as monuments here, it seems only Milan-San Remo, Flanders and Roubaix count for you. I hate to break it to you but L-B-L, Fleche Wallone, Lombardy and Paris-Tours are all monuments too so Gilbert has more. As was pointed out already under the old World Cup format, Gilbert would have won it many times already, Cancellara not so much.
.

ummmm.... The 5 monuments are MSR, Flanders, LBL, P-R and GDL