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Giro 2017, stage 15: Valdengo – Bergamo 199 km

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Jul 6, 2012
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Re:

King Boonen said:
I missed that?

How!?!?? He can't see him and not say it. It's the classic case of him "knowing" one thing about each rider and repeating it ad infinitum. Every time Kirby says it he makes me want to shut his head in a car door forever, so I cannot bring myself to even type it.
 
Re: Re:

Tank Engine said:
yaco said:
Today Orica set the benchmark in how to ride mountain days to try to stop the dominance of Sky at the TDF - Ride hard on the flat for 40 or 50 kms before the climbs to weaken the teams that are top heavy with climbers - Do this and you will reduce the tempo Sky can set on the mountains.

And also burn yourself out in the process, without getting any reward for it. Hardly a benchmark. Still it was worth a go, rest day tomorrow. :cool:

Orica will follow wheels for the next 6 days and help Yates as much as possible in the mountains - They had goals for the last 2 days and came up short - But they had a go.

You fail to understand my post about how to ride a tough mountain stage - There may be 2 or 3 teams collaborate to ride this way in the TDF to pressure Sky - Otherwise the mountain stages follow a script of a lazy Sunday afternoon ride to the climbs, then teams wonder why the Sky train sets such a furious tempo on the climbs.
 
Great stage, very enjoyable. Probably the best of the race so far.

<rant>That said, this "waiting" crap can't disappear soon enough. It's one thing if someone in the leader's jersey has a mechanical, that I can see. Beyond that, race. Especially if someone crashes themselves out on a descent. That is 100% their own fault, and 100% part of the race. Drill it. Any historical tradition here was completely altered by Armstrong playing mind games with Ullrich and trying to be the magnanimous patron of the group. You didn't seen Hinault waiting for anyone.

I'm not sure whether to blame Armstrong, social media, or millennials more. Man up and race. </rant>
 
red_flanders said:
Great stage, very enjoyable. Probably the best of the race so far.

<rant>That said, this "waiting" crap can't disappear soon enough. It's one thing if someone in the leader's jersey has a mechanical, that I can see. Beyond that, race. Especially if someone crashes themselves out on a descent. That is 100% their own fault, and 100% part of the race. Drill it. Any historical tradition here was completely altered by Armstrong playing mind games with Ullrich and trying to be the magnanimous patron of the group. You didn't seen Hinault waiting for anyone.

I'm not sure whether to blame Armstrong, social media, or millennials more. Man up and race. </rant>
Agree, waiting and effectively neutralising the race is a no-go in general, put in this particular situation waiting what, 1 minute, didn't really influence the race that much if any. The break was still caught in the end and the climb wasn't hard enough to do damage. I think Dumo did the right thing from his perspective - Movistar would have caught up or Nairo would have done that by himself on the climb and it puts himself in a good light. I think many riders respected what he did.

Imagine Giant just going full gas, then it had been total war.
 
Valv.Piti said:
red_flanders said:
Great stage, very enjoyable. Probably the best of the race so far.

<rant>That said, this "waiting" crap can't disappear soon enough. It's one thing if someone in the leader's jersey has a mechanical, that I can see. Beyond that, race. Especially if someone crashes themselves out on a descent. That is 100% their own fault, and 100% part of the race. Drill it. Any historical tradition here was completely altered by Armstrong playing mind games with Ullrich and trying to be the magnanimous patron of the group. You didn't seen Hinault waiting for anyone.

I'm not sure whether to blame Armstrong, social media, or millennials more. Man up and race. </rant>
Agree, waiting and effectively neutralising the race is a no-go in general, put in this particular situation waiting what, 1 minute, didn't really influence the race that much if any. The break was still caught in the end and the climb wasn't hard enough to do damage. I think Dumo did the right thing from his perspective - Movistar would have caught up or Nairo would have done that by himself on the climb and it puts himself in a good light. I think many riders respected what he did.

Imagine Giant just going full gas, then it had been total war.

Agree with the bolded, that's why I called it a rant.
 
Re: Re:

yaco said:
Tank Engine said:
yaco said:
Today Orica set the benchmark in how to ride mountain days to try to stop the dominance of Sky at the TDF - Ride hard on the flat for 40 or 50 kms before the climbs to weaken the teams that are top heavy with climbers - Do this and you will reduce the tempo Sky can set on the mountains.

And also burn yourself out in the process, without getting any reward for it. Hardly a benchmark. Still it was worth a go, rest day tomorrow. :cool:

Orica will follow wheels for the next 6 days and help Yates as much as possible in the mountains - They had goals for the last 2 days and came up short - But they had a go.

You fail to understand my post about how to ride a tough mountain stage - There may be 2 or 3 teams collaborate to ride this way in the TDF to pressure Sky - Otherwise the mountain stages follow a script of a lazy Sunday afternoon ride to the climbs, then teams wonder why the Sky train sets such a furious tempo on the climbs.

Orica were using reasonable tactics for a team focusing on a stage win, not on beating Dumoulin or Froome in GC.

I wouldn't say Sky are top heavy with climbers. For me, there's no indication that driving the pace on the flat pressurizes Sky (at least more than any other team). If you have a serious contender for GC in the tour (e.g. Quintana, Contador, Bardet), by forcing the pace on the flat you are probably going to tire them more than Froome (Bertie less so). Yes, the Sky train will go slower, but so will everyone else.

Froome has lost when arguably the strongest rider (e.g. the Vuelta last year), but that was based on a concentrated attack on an opening climb. OK, if you are in 2nd or 3rd deep into a GT you should try to win, so do something. Generally, in the Tour Froome has been most vulnerable in the final week in multi-mountain stages where Sky have been worn out by controlling the pace. Given the skill sets of Froome's closest rivals, if Froome has a reasonable lead it probably means springing your leader clear with support up front is a better approach.

I guess it's possible that Sky haven't been beaten by other teams firstly driving the pace on the flat, because no-one has really tried it or I've forgotten about it. But I wouldn't use Orica's tactics on Sunday as any benchmark for winning the tour.