Giro 2017, stage 16: Rovetta – Bormio 222 km

[kingjr]

Re: Re:

I expected nothing less from Movistar, as Ramira wrote they have a history of unsportsmanlike behavior

And Bahrain have no morals anyway, obvs

Oh c'mon. Show me the unwritten rule that you must not attack if the leader has to take a sh*t. I think they were already too generous to not do an all out attack as soon as Dumoulin stopped.
Don't get me wrong. I wish they had waited, I really want him to win, but saying other teams are unsportsmanlike because of this is nonsense.

That's not what I implied. It's just that you know even before something happens, that Movistar will NEVER wait or do someone a favor. That's just their way of racing.

And it would be the best way of racing. If everyone did that, we would never need to have this discussion.

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re:

Quintana: We knew we could pull back time on the leader today one way or another

this guy...

I really, really hope he loses, either to Dumoulin or Nibali. Raced like a coward, didn't try ANYTHING until Dumoulin had his issue. And gets rewarded with a 2 minute time gain. Cycling, you are stupid.

 

[saunaking]

Re: Re:

Oh c'mon. Show me the unwritten rule

This will be difficult to do!

 

[Ramira]

What really annoys me about this stage is that Quintana still gained 2 minutes on Dumoulin without attacking early. I really wished they would get punished for their conservative racing. Then again, let's be happy Quintana didn't attack early because otherwise Dumoulin would probably have lost 5 minutes.

I'm kind of hoping that if Dumoulin does collapse that Quintana's conservative racing will end up giving Nibali the win.

 

[Beech Mtn]

Re: Re:

"I needed to take a dump, I couldn't hold it anymore"....

lol, it was as simple as that!

Yup, he also didn't seem to blame anyone but himself really.

A bit disheartened that he looked so resigned. It seems to me he feels he lost the Giro today, I hope he's wrong.

They need to get with Tom and have a chat, if he's feeling down on himself. He's passed a huge test today. Queen stage out of the way, and still in pink. Rode that whole last climb and descent almost entirely on his own without help. Looked strong. Still a TT to come, just got to hang on in these last stages, or limit any losses. Winning the overall is still a very real possibility. Nairo doesn't look unbeatable, and maybe not able to capitalize on his strong team's efforts. Nibs is getting stronger. TomD isn't out of it yet. At all.

 

[Squirbos_19]

If Dumoulin stopped earlier the Gc group might have been more inclined to actually wait for him.

 

[Eagle]

Re: Re:

Dumoulin didn't say anything about being ill, just said he needed to go. Probably could've done it before the start of the final climb then?

Alone on the flat is much worse than alone on a climb.

This is assuming everybody does the same on the flat as they did on the climb.

Yup, and stopping 40km earlier is assuming they'd wait for him and not get rid of him on the flat. Considering it was Movistar riding, would you take that risk?

Quick-Step and Katusha were riding at the bottom of the descent, not Movistar

 

[carton]

Re: Re:

It's much more reasonable to expect the others to wait for 30 seconds in the valley though, than to expect them to wait at the start of the final climb of the queen stage, when everyone already has their clear tactical ideas.

That is also true. But again, with even marginal GC threats up the road and Nibali involved, would you really risk it?

 

[kingjr]

Re: Re:

Quintana: We knew we could pull back time on the leader today one way or another

this guy...

I really, really hope he loses, either to Dumoulin or Nibali. Raced like a coward, didn't try ANYTHING until Dumoulin had his issue. And gets rewarded with a 2 minute time gain. Cycling, you are stupid.

That's not true, he didn't do anything until Nibali attacked for the first time.

In other words, your post is more true for Nibali than for Quintana.

 

[Climbing]

What really annoys me about this stage is that Quintana still gained 2 minutes on Dumoulin without attacking early. I really wished they would get punished for their conservative racing. Then again, let's be happy Quintana didn't attack early because otherwise Dumoulin would probably have lost 5 minutes.

It appears evident to me that Quintana didn't have the legs, and of course his usual being conservative.
Everybody was on his limit, brutal brutal stage.

 

[Forever The Best]

Re: Re:

Quintana: We knew we could pull back time on the leader today one way or another

this guy...

I really, really hope he loses, either to Dumoulin or Nibali. Raced like a coward, didn't try ANYTHING until Dumoulin had his issue. And gets rewarded with a 2 minute time gain. Cycling, you are stupid.

+100000000
He was extremely lucky in Formigal as well

 

[deValtos]

Re: Re:

I expected nothing less from Movistar, as Ramira wrote they have a history of unsportsmanlike behavior

And Bahrain have no morals anyway, obvs

Oh c'mon. Show me the unwritten rule that you must not attack if the leader has to take a sh*t. I think they were already too generous to not do an all out attack as soon as Dumoulin stopped.
Don't get me wrong. I wish they had waited, I really want him to win, but saying other teams are unsportsmanlike because of this is nonsense.

That's not what I implied. It's just that you know even before something happens, that Movistar will NEVER wait or do someone a favor. That's just their way of racing.

And it would be the best way of racing. If everyone did that, we would never need to have this discussion.

Not really, we'd then be stuck with a list of people winning important races by luck. That's not really that interesting to me. Winning races by strategy/legs are fine.

 

[Cance > TheRest]

Re: Re:

Dumoulin didn't say anything about being ill, just said he needed to go. Probably could've done it before the start of the final climb then?

Alone on the flat is much worse than alone on a climb.

It's much more reasonable to expect the others to wait for 30 seconds in the valley though, than to expect them to wait at the start of the final climb of the queen stage, when everyone already has their clear tactical ideas.

Also, he would have a bigger aerodynamic advantage of the team cars on a flat piece of road.

 

[Ramira]

Re: Re:

"I needed to take a dump, I couldn't hold it anymore"....

lol, it was as simple as that!

Yup, he also didn't seem to blame anyone but himself really.

A bit disheartened that he looked so resigned. It seems to me he feels he lost the Giro today, I hope he's wrong.

They need to get with Tom and have a chat, if he's feeling down on himself. He's passed a huge test today. Queen stage out of the way, and still in pink. Rode that whole last climb and descent almost entirely on his own without help. Looked strong. Still a TT to come, just got to hang on in these last stages, or limit any losses. Winning the overall is still a very real possibility. Nairo doesn't look unbeatable, and maybe not able to capitalize on his strong team's efforts. Nibs is getting stronger. TomD isn't out of it yet. At all.

Yeah like I said a bit later on, I think he'll probably feel a lot better when he's on his bike again tomorrow and feeling good. He's unlikely to lose any time. Which means on Thursday he's going into the last 4 days with a 30 second lead. That's almost certainly better than he expected at the start of this Giro.

 

[DFA123]

Re: Re:

I expected nothing less from Movistar, as Ramira wrote they have a history of unsportsmanlike behavior

And Bahrain have no morals anyway, obvs

Oh c'mon. Show me the unwritten rule that you must not attack if the leader has to take a sh*t. I think they were already too generous to not do an all out attack as soon as Dumoulin stopped.
Don't get me wrong. I wish they had waited, I really want him to win, but saying other teams are unsportsmanlike because of this is nonsense.

That's not what I implied. It's just that you know even before something happens, that Movistar will NEVER wait or do someone a favor. That's just their way of racing.

And it would be the best way of racing. If everyone did that, we would never need to have this discussion.

Agree with this. It's really the only fair way - otherwise there is usually always going to be at least one aggrieved party in most situations.

 

[Guybrush]

Re: Re:

I expected nothing less from Movistar, as Ramira wrote they have a history of unsportsmanlike behavior

And Bahrain have no morals anyway, obvs

Oh c'mon. Show me the unwritten rule that you must not attack if the leader has to take a sh*t. I think they were already too generous to not do an all out attack as soon as Dumoulin stopped.
Don't get me wrong. I wish they had waited, I really want him to win, but saying other teams are unsportsmanlike because of this is nonsense.

That's not what I implied. It's just that you know even before something happens, that Movistar will NEVER wait or do someone a favor. That's just their way of racing.

did Contador wait for andy at the chaingate?

edit: awfull grammar

 

[movingtarget]

Re:

If Dumoulin stopped earlier the Gc group might have been more inclined to actually wait for him.

It sounds like he was trying to get through the stage without having a stop.

 

[kingjr]

Re: Re:

I expected nothing less from Movistar, as Ramira wrote they have a history of unsportsmanlike behavior

And Bahrain have no morals anyway, obvs

Oh c'mon. Show me the unwritten rule that you must not attack if the leader has to take a sh*t. I think they were already too generous to not do an all out attack as soon as Dumoulin stopped.
Don't get me wrong. I wish they had waited, I really want him to win, but saying other teams are unsportsmanlike because of this is nonsense.

That's not what I implied. It's just that you know even before something happens, that Movistar will NEVER wait or do someone a favor. That's just their way of racing.

did Contador waited in the chaingate?

Oh please, not this can of worms again.

 

[carton]

Re: Re:

I really, really hope he loses, either to Dumoulin or Nibali. Raced like a coward, didn't try ANYTHING until Dumoulin had his issue. And gets rewarded with a 2 minute time gain. Cycling, you are stupid.

He attacked up the last two mountains before this stage. Had his team set up to attack, just didn't have the legs.

Yet you'd rather have the guy who actually did press on today while Dumoulin was in trouble? I don't mind it for the win at all costs crowd, but if you're going to bring up sportsmanship it seems like a peculiar position to take.

 

[Squirbos_19]

Re: Re:

If Dumoulin stopped earlier the Gc group might have been more inclined to actually wait for him.

It sounds like he was trying to get through the stage without having a stop.

Definitely. I suppose it's always different looking at a situation in hindsight.

 

[movingtarget]

This won't do Dumoulin's motivation any harm at all. Quintana didn't look that good today, not like a rider who was the overwhelming favorite before the race.

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re: Re:

I really, really hope he loses, either to Dumoulin or Nibali. Raced like a coward, didn't try ANYTHING until Dumoulin had his issue. And gets rewarded with a 2 minute time gain. Cycling, you are stupid.

He attacked up the last two mountains before this stage. Had his team set up to attack, just didn't have the legs.

Yet you'd rather have the guy who actually did press on today while Dumoulin was in trouble? I don't mind it for the win at all costs crowd, but if you're going to bring up sportsmanship it seems like a peculiar position to take.

I wanted Nibali to win because of Scarponi and because we hadn't had an Italian winner yet. And because I severely dislike Landa, as a person. What I've found about him isn't pretty.

 

[bp92]

What really annoys me about this stage is that Quintana still gained 2 minutes on Dumoulin without attacking early. I really wished they would get punished for their conservative racing. Then again, let's be happy Quintana didn't attack early because otherwise Dumoulin would probably have lost 5 minutes.

I'm kind of hoping that if Dumoulin does collapse that Quintana's conservative racing will end up giving Nibali the win.

This would be fun to see, and I'm saying this as a (somewhat frustrated) Quintana fan .

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re:

This won't do Dumoulin's motivation any harm at all. Quintana didn't look that good today, not like a rider who was the overwhelming favorite before the race.

Definitely. I just hope this doesn't get into his head.

 

[spalco]

Re: Re:

I expected nothing less from Movistar, as Ramira wrote they have a history of unsportsmanlike behavior

And Bahrain have no morals anyway, obvs

Oh c'mon. Show me the unwritten rule that you must not attack if the leader has to take a sh*t. I think they were already too generous to not do an all out attack as soon as Dumoulin stopped.
Don't get me wrong. I wish they had waited, I really want him to win, but saying other teams are unsportsmanlike because of this is nonsense.

That's not what I implied. It's just that you know even before something happens, that Movistar will NEVER wait or do someone a favor. That's just their way of racing.

did Contador waited in the chaingate?

Oh please, not this can of worms again.

It's actually kind of similar though, isn't it? Both incidents were self-inflicted.