Giro 2017, stage 18: Moena - Ortisei 137 km

[WheelofGear]

Nibali should send Pellizotti in the break. The only man who has been useful to him.

 

[Eclipse]

Lo Squalo will light it up never fear

death or glory

 

[DanielSong39]

Landa wins from the break and sets about eradicating his 42-minute deficit to Dumoulin.

Quintana follows wheels and puts in his attack in the final kilometers.

 

[lartiste]

I assume that Quintana will not attack before the last climb since he never was that good descender, and now he crashed few days ago on the descent during this Giro.

I even think Nibali and Dumoulin would drop Quintana on the descent.

 

[Red Rick]

Yeah it might be worth discussing which descents are viable attack options today.

Nibali's only hope I think is to bury Dumoulin today and to buy Quintana on the descent of the Monte Grappa. Very hard to see that happening

 

[Forever The Best]

Re: Re:

In most GC situations we'd have now it would be nothing until the final climb. But now we have a GC leader with at a huge team disadvantage, and he's not the dominant climber. If two equal climbers would go at it at this stage, they'd be locked in wheels until the last km's of Pontives.

So how would you design a stage in which two equal climbers would "go at it" far from the finish? I think this is well designed because the last climb isn't very hard and unlikely to create meaningful gaps, but you can definitely do that if you open up the race from afar.

Use climbs harder than the Pordoi at the start. Either I take San Pellegrino+Fedaia+Pordoi to start with, then skip Valparola and Gardena by going over the Passo Sella.

Or you take a detour between the Pordoi and the Valparola and cram in the Passo Giau.

Or, if you really want to make a mess out of it and don't mind a longer stage, San Pellegrino, go all the way south to Agordo, then Duran+Staulanza+Giau>Valparola>Gardena and finish in Ortisei without going down for the Pinei and Pontives. That would be my preference. 6 climbs, which 5 are non-stop, with the hardest being the first and the third one.

Or, for the advanced option, start a crowdfunding campaign to have Libertine Seguros design the stage.

San Pellegrino+Duran+Staulanza+Fedaia+Sella with finish in Ortisei after the Sella descent
A shirt stage just like the RCS wants, and a hard stage with big chances of attacks coming on Fedaia. If a rider is really desperate he can attack even on Duran or Staulanza but we should see the attacks from Fedaia in this propose. And the gaps should be pretty big at the end of the day.

 

[BullsFan22]

Red Rick, the Pordoi isn't 'hard' enough? The organizers only had 137km to work with. That many climbs in that 'short' of a distance is plenty tough. What I think the organization thought was that with a shorter stage with more climbs would mean aggressive riding from the start, and with already 17 stages in the legs, everyone would be tired, which means more uncertain tactics and riders and teams taking risks on both the uphill and downhill sections of the route. With the gaps closing down, it should make for a fun and intense stage. But I don't see how the Pordoi isn't tough enough as the opening climb of the day. I would argue the opposite. Plus, you have to consider where they are. If they picked another climb, it would no doubt change the distance and would have also meant changing the rest of the climbs on the stage.

 

[BullsFan22]

Dumoulin to fly the coup. He'll resist constant attacks from Nibali, Quintana, Zakarin and Pinot, and then he'll turn the tables and stump the lot and win the stage. Quintana will crack on the final climb with Nibali, Zakarin and Pinot making up time on him and making the fight for the GC positions air tight for the final few stages!!!

 

[Red Rick]

Re: Re:

In most GC situations we'd have now it would be nothing until the final climb. But now we have a GC leader with at a huge team disadvantage, and he's not the dominant climber. If two equal climbers would go at it at this stage, they'd be locked in wheels until the last km's of Pontives.

So how would you design a stage in which two equal climbers would "go at it" far from the finish? I think this is well designed because the last climb isn't very hard and unlikely to create meaningful gaps, but you can definitely do that if you open up the race from afar.

Use climbs harder than the Pordoi at the start. Either I take San Pellegrino+Fedaia+Pordoi to start with, then skip Valparola and Gardena by going over the Passo Sella.

Or you take a detour between the Pordoi and the Valparola and cram in the Passo Giau.

Or, if you really want to make a mess out of it and don't mind a longer stage, San Pellegrino, go all the way south to Agordo, then Duran+Staulanza+Giau>Valparola>Gardena and finish in Ortisei without going down for the Pinei and Pontives. That would be my preference. 6 climbs, which 5 are non-stop, with the hardest being the first and the third one.

Or, for the advanced option, start a crowdfunding campaign to have Libertine Seguros design the stage.

San Pellegrino+Duran+Staulanza+Fedaia+Sella with finish in Ortisei after the Sella descent
A shirt stage just like the RCS wants, and a hard stage with big chances of attacks coming on Fedaia. If a rider is really desperate he can attack even on Duran or Staulanza but we should see the attacks from Fedaia in this propose. And the gaps should be pretty big at the end of the day.

That's perfect too. Thing with the Dolomites is that there's so many good climbs close and linked together that there's a huge lot of options.

 

[RattaKuningas]

Finally a stage that I can watch from start to finish. No lectures, seminars or exams today. I hope that this is better than stage 16 that I didn't see (luckily?) where only interesting thing was sh*tgate.

 

[bassano]

I am wonder how this stage could look if Nibali would have Astana 2015 team at his dispozition

 

[Red Rick]

Red Rick, the Pordoi isn't 'hard' enough? The organizers only had 137km to work with. That many climbs in that 'short' of a distance is plenty tough. What I think the organization thought was that with a shorter stage with more climbs would mean aggressive riding from the start, and with already 17 stages in the legs, everyone would be tired, which means more uncertain tactics and riders and teams taking risks on both the uphill and downhill sections of the route. With the gaps closing down, it should make for a fun and intense stage. But I don't see how the Pordoi isn't tough enough as the opening climb of the day. I would argue the opposite. Plus, you have to consider where they are. If they picked another climb, it would no doubt change the distance and would have also meant changing the rest of the climbs on the stage.

Pordoi isn't all that hard.

 

[Red Rick]

Re:

I am wonder how this stage could look if Nibali would have Astana 2015 team at his dispozition

Landa would require neck surgery afterward from all that looking where Nibali is.

 

[ice&fire]

Red Rick, the Pordoi isn't 'hard' enough? The organizers only had 137km to work with. That many climbs in that 'short' of a distance is plenty tough. What I think the organization thought was that with a shorter stage with more climbs would mean aggressive riding from the start, and with already 17 stages in the legs, everyone would be tired, which means more uncertain tactics and riders and teams taking risks on both the uphill and downhill sections of the route. With the gaps closing down, it should make for a fun and intense stage. But I don't see how the Pordoi isn't tough enough as the opening climb of the day. I would argue the opposite. Plus, you have to consider where they are. If they picked another climb, it would no doubt change the distance and would have also meant changing the rest of the climbs on the stage.

Pordoi isn't all that hard.

Pordoi was one of the hardest climbs that Moser and Saronni could go over and stay in GC contention. There were some harder climbs in those years such as Stelvio or Montecampione, but then Hinault smoked them all.

 

[Netserk]

Re: Re:

In most GC situations we'd have now it would be nothing until the final climb. But now we have a GC leader with at a huge team disadvantage, and he's not the dominant climber. If two equal climbers would go at it at this stage, they'd be locked in wheels until the last km's of Pontives.

So how would you design a stage in which two equal climbers would "go at it" far from the finish? I think this is well designed because the last climb isn't very hard and unlikely to create meaningful gaps, but you can definitely do that if you open up the race from afar.

Use climbs harder than the Pordoi at the start. Either I take San Pellegrino+Fedaia+Pordoi to start with, then skip Valparola and Gardena by going over the Passo Sella.

Or you take a detour between the Pordoi and the Valparola and cram in the Passo Giau.

Or, if you really want to make a mess out of it and don't mind a longer stage, San Pellegrino, go all the way south to Agordo, then Duran+Staulanza+Giau>Valparola>Gardena and finish in Ortisei without going down for the Pinei and Pontives. That would be my preference. 6 climbs, which 5 are non-stop, with the hardest being the first and the third one.

Or, for the advanced option, start a crowdfunding campaign to have Libertine Seguros design the stage.

San Pellegrino+Duran+Staulanza+Fedaia+Sella with finish in Ortisei after the Sella descent
A shirt stage just like the RCS wants, and a hard stage with big chances of attacks coming on Fedaia. If a rider is really desperate he can attack even on Duran or Staulanza but we should see the attacks from Fedaia in this propose. And the gaps should be pretty big at the end of the day.

That's perfect too. Thing with the Dolomites is that there's so many good climbs close and linked together that there's a huge lot of options.

Déjà vu?

viewtopic.php?p=2103245#p2103245

 

[capuldemetal]

i wished they put edelweiss and passo rombo.that would have been carnage.

 

[Red Rick]

Re: Re:

Déjà vu?

viewtopic.php?p=2103245#p2103245

Honestly didn't think of that one when I came up with my suggestion, but I think it's just such an easy decision to use Duran+Staulanza+Fedaia/Giau mid-to late stage.

 

[jens_attacks]

landa landa landa landa landa.

 

[jens_attacks]

i hope zakarin can drop both nibali and nairo today if they wait for the last climb.

 

[RattaKuningas]

Re:

i hope zakarin can drop both nibali and nairo today if they wait for the last climb.

I don't think this is going to happen because surely Nibali will attack on the last descent before last climb.

 

[DanielSong39]

Pinot and Zakarin will have to do something spectacular to get back into the race. Any chance they push the tempo or try to join a break?

 

[Ricco']

As usual we are watching Flecha when the guys are starting the stage. Next? Commercial break.

Why couldn't they start at 11.45 with Giro Extra to start the real broadcast at 12.00 pm?

 

[sixtyten]

does anyone have a stream?

 

[Dukerojo]

Re:

As usual we are watching Flecha when the guys are starting the stage. Next? Commercial break.

Why couldn't they start at 11.45 with Giro Extra to start the real broadcast at 12.00 pm?

I was thinking the same thing, especially today when I don't have to work

 

[spalco]

Re:

As usual we are watching Flecha when the guys are starting the stage. Next? Commercial break.

Why couldn't they start at 11.45 with Giro Extra to start the real broadcast at 12.00 pm?

I don't think there is a broadcast yet.

Even Rai Sport + (good stream here http://www.streamgaroo.com/tv-stream/italy/rai-sport-1-live-stream) has nothing yet.