Giro d’Italia 2024, Stage 16: Livigno – Santa Cristina Valgardena/Sankt Christina in Gröden (Monte Pana), 202.0k 206.0k

[Tricycle Rider]

So what does it feel like for riders when a stage such as this is entirely cancelled? Are they like - yay, a snow day, no school today! Or are they bummed because they were all prepped and ready to go? Most of them who have appeared on camera have smiled either way...

 

[Lequack]

Can anyone translate what Contador said?

https://twitter.com/x/status/1792850206775558386

View: https://twitter.com/lucasaganronald/status/1792850206775558386

 

[Red Rick]

Can we make Ben O Connor do the full stage alone?

 

[Brullnux]

What is the non altitude route from A (Livigno) to B (Monte Pana)?

There isn't one, which was an issue with the route planning to begin with.

 

[CyclistAbi]

I think there's a much better solution to this – know that the risk of issues on 2000m+ passes is high, and prepare non altitude routes to get from A to B. It's less cost-effective, but it's less farcical.

If we listen to the general sentiment then for all parties involved to be happy we need to keep such risky, wet and cold passes in the race, nothing really fundamentally wrong with that. As the main complain is riders are avoiding cold and snow, a bunch of softies, but the reality is they aren't really. They just don't want to descend in such conditions, and that in my opinion is a rather valid point on the riders side. Most of the "historic" images tend to be taken on ascends anyway. So we can still keep that.

Even F1, unless it turns into Sepang 2009 or Nürburgring 2007, no need for cancellation.

Need I remind people that every year when May comes around we see celebration of this:

Now I know times are different now, but it just seems wild that we celebrate these iconic events of the past while simultaneously raising alarms about organiser recklessness because an outdoor sport has to deal with the existence of weather.

Hell, even far more recently 2010's legendary Giro that received almost universal praise gave us all of the below, 100% of which would have likely been cancelled, abridged or neutralized today:

Maybe there could even be some sort of mud put at the begging of the climb. But i know now we are pushing it.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Riders shouldn't race when the temperature is below zero for very extended periods of time, let's be real. There's no entertainment value and there is a genuine risk to rider safety

While obviously wind-chill impacted by speed is significantly higher, the extreme weather protocol in biathlon and cross-country skiing kicks in at -20ºC. There is the technology to provide the gear to compete in the cold.

The road conditions are the real risk when competing at that kind of temperature because it will by default be icy, frosty or similar at those temperatures. But while there is a limit to what is acceptable racing conditions, recent racing issues have suggested that the biggest problem is the riders' behaviours; they take all manner of risks when the racing conditions are felt to be safe, so it might actually be safer if they race in conditions where jeopardy makes them respect the road a bit more. Not to such an extent where the road is genuinely hazardous like we're seeing here, but where they have to think twice about how they approach corners and don't follow one another so closely.

 

[Brullnux]

Can anyone translate what Contador said?

https://twitter.com/x/status/1792875051601076677

View: https://twitter.com/almeida_ernesto/status/1792875051601076677

He's at Passo Foscagno, and from KM2 to KM11 it was just snow. It looks like a crazy situation but really it's quite complicated and delicate; that said, the race will need to go to Plan B.

 

[Froome]

Better start to do the Giro d'Italia on Zwift, to please this riders.

 

[topcat]

The cyclists have promised to put on a show today.
It's going to be a humdinger of a drag race between Dani and G on the false flat.

 

[search]

Who is that brave cyclist?

must be Fausto, I guess.

According to Velopro, the new start has already been delayed to "between 14:15 and 14:30", by the way.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

If we listen to the general sentiment then for all parties involved to be happy we need to keep such risky, wet and cold passes in the race, nothing really fundamentally wrong with that. As the main complain is riders are avoiding cold and snow, a bunch of softies, but the reality is they aren't really. They just don't want to descend in such conditions, and that in my opinion is a rather valid point on the riders side. Most of the "historic" images tend to be taken on ascends anyway. So we can still keep that.

The problem is, Hansen's letter didn't mention the road conditions. It mentioned the cold. And the number of situations like Asti 2020, Fedaia-Pordoi 2021, Grand-St-Bernard 2023, O Gran Camiño 2023 and Montjuïc 2023 where the stage as originally drawn was perfectly doable and the riders just didn't want to has meant that their pronouncements of what 'too much' is are greeted with a great deal of skepticism and suspicion... even when they're right.

 

[Brullnux]

While obviously wind-chill impacted by speed is significantly higher, the extreme weather protocol in biathlon and cross-country skiing kicks in at -20ºC. There is the technology to provide the gear to compete in the cold.

I agree but I would also add that in Biathlon and XC Skiing you are constantly working/moving, and descents are short. Cycling, less so. There's also the factor that on a descent the most important part of your body is your hands, which is an extremity quickly affected by the cold. Very insulated gloves exist but they are sometimes a bit chunky which can affect braking etc. I would say that 0° on long descents is a fair limit for pro cycling, all things considered.

 

[AmRacer]

I agree but I would also add that in Biathlon and XC Skiing you are constantly working/moving, and descents are short. Cycling, less so. There's also the factor that on a descent the most important part of your body is your hands, which is an extremity quickly affected by the cold. Very insulated gloves exist but they are sometimes a bit chunky which can affect braking etc. I would say that 0° on long descents is a fair limit for pro cycling, all things considered.

Don't mention slippery roads.

 

[Jungle Cycle]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1792875652346998944

View: https://x.com/simongeschke/status/1792875652346998944

 

[CyclistAbi]

The problem is, Hansen's letter didn't mention the road conditions. It mentioned the cold. And the number of situations like Asti 2020, Fedaia-Pordoi 2021, Grand-St-Bernard 2023, O Gran Camiño 2023 and Montjuïc 2023 where the stage as originally drawn was perfectly doable and the riders just didn't want to has meant that their pronouncements of what 'too much' is are greeted with a great deal of skepticism and suspicion... even when they're right.

Still they didn't just get an idea to sabotage a stage and looking at the current conditions they are not wrong. That is in my opinion they would likely complain, rightfully, but would still do the climb. If it would be a MTF. Beyond that it would be a circus and a crash fest, unless, riders would neutralize themself on the descend. But then again this whole debate would emerge and nobody would give them credit for doing the climb.

All in all and in my opinion, the elements must be taken into consideration on the race day.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

I agree but I would also add that in Biathlon and XC Skiing you are constantly working/moving, and descents are short. Cycling, less so. There's also the factor that on a descent the most important part of your body is your hands, which is an extremity quickly affected by the cold. Very insulated gloves exist but they are sometimes a bit chunky which can affect braking etc. I would say that 0° on long descents is a fair limit for pro cycling, all things considered.

Oh, I'm not suggesting that they go race until -20ºC, for one thing speed is a major factor on wind chill. I couldn't find an equivalent for the Alpine Skiing World Cup but I'd wager it's higher than the minimum for XC/biathlon. I'm just illustrating that the equipment required to safely hold competition at cold temperatures exists.

Also biathletes do have to factor their hands into their sport because they need to be able to feel the trigger finger. There's the occasional madman or woman like Sven Fischer or Célia Aymonier who go gloveless but they are the exception, not the rule. And in Aymonier's case, it often cost her.

 

[AmRacer]

Still they didn't just get an idea to sabotage a stage and looking at the current conditions they are not wrong. That is in my opinion they would likely complain, rightfully, but would still do the climb. If it would be a MTF. Beyond that it would be a circus and a crash fest, unless, riders would neutralize themself on the descend. But then again this whole debate would emerge and nobody would give them credit for doing the climb.

All in all and in my opinion, the elements must be taken into consideration on the race day.

How should the riders get down from the MTF?

 

[QueenStagiaire]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1792875652346998944

View: https://x.com/simongeschke/status/1792875652346998944

Damn UCI sticking to their extreme weather protocol and checking for extreme weather on the day, when the riders are fortune tellers and complained about different issues.

 

[CyclistAbi]

How should the riders get down from the MTF?

Soft pedalling, goes well with the softies narrative.

 

[Netserk]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1792878389398733125

View: https://x.com/inrng/status/1792878389398733125

 

[CyclistAbi]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1792875652346998944

View: https://x.com/simongeschke/status/1792875652346998944

Yeah, nobody is giving them any credit, to ride in cold and wet conditions for our entertainment. On a parking lot.

 

[Samu Cuenca]

How should the riders get down from the MTF?

Ski jumping.

 

[Tricycle Rider]

While obviously wind-chill impacted by speed is significantly higher, the extreme weather protocol in biathlon and cross-country skiing kicks in at -20ºC. There is the technology to provide the gear to compete in the cold.

The road conditions are the real risk when competing at that kind of temperature because it will by default be icy, frosty or similar at those temperatures. But while there is a limit to what is acceptable racing conditions, recent racing issues have suggested that the biggest problem is the riders' behaviours; they take all manner of risks when the racing conditions are felt to be safe, so it might actually be safer if they race in conditions where jeopardy makes them respect the road a bit more. Not to such an extent where the road is genuinely hazardous like we're seeing here, but where they have to think twice about how they approach corners and don't follow one another so closely.

I mostly agree with your comparison regarding the frosty temperatures XC skiers are accustomed to, but the speed of the sport is something to keep in mind also. XC skiers are constantly using every limb to keep in motion (so they stay warm by default) while riders have to keep their heads in the wind at all times at high speed while not necessarily always in muscular motion. (Like when descending.) So obviously riders can get frozen much quicker.

 

[AmRacer]

Yeah, nobody is giving them any credit, to ride in cold and wet conditions for our entertainment. On a parking lot.

Like Cyclocross

 

[Libertine Seguros]

F*** it, just start in Bolzano and demand Tadej go full Riis '96.