Giro d’Italia 2024, Stage 16: Livigno – Santa Cristina Valgardena/Sankt Christina in Gröden (Monte Pana), 202.0k 206.0k

[Tim Cahill]

Geshcke and O'Connor's comments completely without diplomacy and unbecoming of actual adults, especially given one is a CPA representative. There are ways and means to be critical and achieve this outcome without p*ssing on the race and it's organisers and throwing your toys out of the pram on public forums. If my union representative took to twitter to make catty, passive aggressive comments to people they were trying to negotiate with, people trying their best, they'd be out on their arse before they could even put their smartphone down.

 

[Rechtschreibfehler]

Wait for Horner - he'll explain everything.

He'll explain in detail how mad it was, but I doubt he will solve the mystery of the universe Movistar tactics are.
Ignoramus et Ignorabimus, to say it wit Emil Du Bois-Reymond.

 

[Brullnux]

Martinez already did the damage to Thomas. Now can Thomas hang on to 3rd?

O'Connor looks pretty bad so I'd imagine so

 

[Valv.Piti]

Geshcke and O'Connor's comments completely without diplomacy and unbecoming of actual adults, especially given one is a CPA representative. There are ways and means to be critical and achieve this outcome without p*ssing on the race and it's organisers and throwing your toys out of the pram on public forums. If my union representative took to twitter to make catty, passive aggressive comments to people they were trying to negotiate with, people trying their best, they'd be out on their arse before they could even put their smartphone down.

O'Connor is a completete tool. Inexcuseable comments (we can obviously say that stuff here behind aliases, avatars and what not!)

Hopefully O Connor blows on Grappa.

 

[Unchained]

What's stopping the same materials and gear being used to create cold-weather cycling kit? Nothing, it's just that there's a lack of a need for it, because the roads would be unsafe at the temperatures it would be needed at.

That is my point. Hansen's letter cited the cold as the danger, but the cold is not what causes the problem, because, if equipped for it, they could easily race in the sub-zero temperatures. Hell, cyclocrossers already do on occasion. It's the road conditions at those temperatures that make racing in them unsafe for road cycling, not the temperatures themselves.

It's the reason that majority (99.9%) choose leg warmers or tights , the shorts are the issue w additional material adding to seat height and how the pad meets your junk and rear end and where the water drains. You can get covered from head to toe w shoe covers and jackets w elastic gaskets to keep out most water but nobody wants the extra bulk and " nature breaks " put you out of the race. If you have been there you know.. Have on extra layers w bibs and if you need to pee you go into full panic trying to get each onion layer off so you don't wet yourself!!
When you are doing a cyclocross race you don't get the same level of wind chill and your body temp gets to 1000 after first few dismounts and running! Pretty strange w all the comments and dedicated threads about crashing, what to do about it and organization did something fairly logical and now people are saying sport has gone soft and everyone is a bunch of marshmallows!!
Few years ago at our district road race it was comedy gold seeing riders trying to use cold weather gear w cycling clothing!! Helmet was 4 inches off their head trying to use hats and things to cover ears, gloves for downhill skiing, and tights ,leggings and shoe covers having people looking like Michelin man!!
I have owned a few pairs of Pearl Azumi Anphib tights and nothing bothers you, don't get too cold or wet but feels like a 3mm wetsuit!!
And for the record, I was an early adopter of GoreTex I bought cycling and camping stuff, super expensive and in my opinion it's not very good!!
When I watch the race and see how the rain jackets drain into the back crack in the shorts it makes me cold!!!
In Belgium and Holland they use some menthol vasoline looking mix to rub on your legs and arms to keep water off, Americans don't ride or race in rain!!

 

[Salvarani]

Feel like Thomas is saving himself for the Monte Grappa stage and will push the last climb with what he has left or he just isnt better than this.

This last climb today suited Martinez way more, but two times up Monte Grappa will be what decides the podium in the end.

O´Connor seems to be fading a bit and with his stupid comments... I hope that he continues to fade.

 

[Mayomaniac]

Also, everyone who complains about cold weather only to race without gloves (not even normal ones) and gets problems with cold hands like Ala deserves to be ridiculed...

 

[Fantastico]

First they raced for Rubio, but then Rubio had bad legs. Still doesn't explain the first Pelayo Mayo attack with Quintana pulling behind.

I think they wanted Sanchez a bit upfront to help Rubio to bridge. Then Quintana could not sustain as long as planned, so they ordered Sanchez back. But then Rubio did not have the legs to attack, so Sanchez tried again on his own, only to have mechanical issues.

 

[Sciatic]

Call their bluff, the Giro is over anyway, Pogacar won and there is no fight for podium, so not a lot will be missed

That’s one of the problems. RCS always caves (to some degree) so teams know they can manipulate the race.
Just for laughs RCS should go to the pro-conti teams and say “there’s a plan for a boycott but we’re going hold the stage at the scheduled time so be ready and you’ll be able to win the stage and possibly the Giro.

Then to see the pro teams scramble when they learn the race started 10 minutes ago.

 

[Salvarani]

Also, everyone who complains about cold weather only to race without gloves (not even normal ones) and gets problems with cold hands like Ala deserves to be ridiculed...

Haha Ala, you got cold hands! Try to pull down your zipper without shaking! Haha, you cant because you are so numb!

*walks off*

 

[Rechtschreibfehler]

O'Connor looks pretty bad so I'd imagine so

They finished in the same time together with VPP. So I don't know if any conclusions can be drawn. If Thomas runs out of steam earlier than O'Connor on one of the next stages, his 62 seconds might be gone faster than he likes.

 

[Ilmaestro99]

So the guys that cancelled half a stage over the Bernardo pass when it was almost 10c and without snow on the top last year, are dinosaurs who don't see human perspective, just because they struggle to find an easy solution to get people to the other side of a mountain.

 

[Sciatic]

Seriously, when we see actual reports of Ice on the road or the road actually being covered in snow then I understand. Just not wanting to ride because it's cold and wet is lame.

RCS should have made a 245km alternative stage with Mortirolo-Tonale-Mendola before Bozen instead, just to make a point.

That’s an awesome plan—have a Plan B stage that is even tougher (though lower elevation) than the original!

 

[Salvarani]

Seeing Blythe on the motorbike in the rain just wasnt enough for me. He should have had to get off and sprint the last 2km without his jacket. I wouldnt have been happy, but I would have felt okay about it at least.

 

[Rechtschreibfehler]

This, by the way, is Jensi solution for all Weather Protocol issues:

the people who decide if it's okay to ride, have to drive the stage in an open cabriolet, no matter the weather. And if it's to hot or to cold for them to do so, you don't ride.

Edit: thinking about it for a second, this could only work as an instrument of measurement if the people in the car also can only wear what a cyclist could realistically use. Also they should be on home trainers, which means that there probably needs to be an open Truck on which they all sit on the home trainers. And because this is a TV sports event, they'd also do their own race, like the E-Giro.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

So Teddy merciless again, surprise! Circumstances were favourable (the breakaway chased down by others). Martinez takes the 2nd place in the GC being the best of the rest.

Majka could've won today, I think in his interview Pog said he should go, bu he already worked for a while so he was tired. It should've decided beforehand that he goes for it and not to do any work on the front. And Pog could just mark anyone in the peloton, it would've been a good tactic.

Yup they could've toyed a bit with other guys. Majka attacks, if he's chased down they obviously Teddy stomps at the end.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

It's the reason that majority (99.9%) choose leg warmers or tights , the shorts are the issue w additional material adding to seat height and how the pad meets your junk and rear end and where the water drains. You can get covered from head to toe w shoe covers and jackets w elastic gaskets to keep out most water but nobody wants the extra bulk and " nature breaks " put you out of the race. If you have been there you know.. Have on extra layers w bibs and if you need to pee you go into full panic trying to get each onion layer off so you don't wet yourself!!
When you are doing a cyclocross race you don't get the same level of wind chill and your body temp gets to 1000 after first few dismounts and running! Pretty strange w all the comments and dedicated threads about crashing, what to do about it and organization did something fairly logical and now people are saying sport has gone soft and everyone is a bunch of marshmallows!!
Few years ago at our district road race it was comedy gold seeing riders trying to use cold weather gear w cycling clothing!! Helmet was 4 inches off their head trying to use hats and things to cover ears, gloves for downhill skiing, and tights ,leggings and shoe covers having people looking like Michelin man!!
I have owned a few pairs of Pearl Azumi Anphib tights and nothing bothers you, don't get too cold or wet but feels like a 3mm wetsuit!!
And for the record, I was an early adopter of GoreTex I bought cycling and camping stuff, super expensive and in my opinion it's not very good!!
When I watch the race and see how the rain jackets drain into the back crack in the shorts it makes me cold!!!
In Belgium and Holland they use some menthol vasoline looking mix to rub on your legs and arms to keep water off, Americans don't ride or race in rain!!

Cross-country/biathlon also uses tights and long-sleeved tops, usually lycra outer shell but better heat retention. Again - Hansen's letter was making the deal that it was unsafe because of the cold. I was pointing out that the cold isn't in-and-of-itself a problem, because endurance sports take place routinely in far colder temperatures without ill effect, and those sports have a lower limit on acceptable temperature too. My point was that the letter did not mention the road conditions, which seemed absurd because they are the reason it isn't safe to cycle in those temperatures, not the cold.

It's not like it was -15º on Umbrailpass. Exercise at ~0ºC isn't physiologically going to be a problem for most people, especially not elite athletes. It was the freezing rain and potential ice and slush on the ground on a mountain road that was the problem (and is a much more obvious one than just being cold and wet, because while nobody likes being cold and wet, descending a mountain road with no grip is actually dangerous rather than just unpleasant). Yet that wasn't the issue raised by the letter.

 

[Valv.Piti]

Seeing Blythe on the motorbike in the rain just wasnt enough for me. He should have had to get off and sprint the last 2km without his jacket. I wouldnt have been happy, but I would have felt okay about it at least.

Actually listening to Blythe on the moto was the first time during this race where I didnt want to shut down my stream. Voigt and Oss were so bad that Blythe is a clear improvement. Now think about that!!

 

[Sciatic]

Apparently the RCS understood that it is indeed too dangerous. So everything was done within the law.

So why mention the rider’s vote? that should be irrelevant if indeed RCS officials conclude on evidence that the pass is not safe.

There’s no “law” involved here—unless Livigno sues for breach of contract having paid to have the race start there (obviously unlikely),

 

[Salvarani]

Actually listening to Blythe on the moto was the first time during this race where I didnt want to shut down my stream. Voigt and Oss were so bad that Blythe is a clear improvement. Now think about that!!

I prefer Contador and him speaking Spanish, since I dont understand what he is saying.

 

[Unterlenkerfahrend]

Also, everyone who complains about cold weather only to race without gloves (not even normal ones) and gets problems with cold hands like Ala deserves to be ridiculed...

Yeah, honestly the debate about cold and chill factor is something I can't get my head around. Don't get me wrong, icy surface and road danger is something I totally understand. And I even understand that its a *** idea to have a charity start in Livigno, get soaking wet and then get into cars where you don't have anything to change.
But overall the threat of cold is so so much easier to answer than heat, I'm really flabbergasted when I hear guys like Vine (last year I think) as part of the peleton( so not even in a rush) taking on 3 rain jackets (lol) in a desperate attempt to get warm. Have a guy from your team stand atop of a 2000m pass and hand everyone a friggin proper down jacket and I'll bet my pathetic live savings that you'll get warm enough. Is that really so hard? Surely marginal aero gains are irrelevant if you're just part of the peleton.

We have people performing high end endurance sports at -30C at 8000m altitude yet cyclists be like 4 degrees and rain? Nope, impossible to counter that. Let me grab 3 layers of plastic to try to keep warm, oh and watertight gloves are also overrated.

 

[Netserk]

Cross-country/biathlon also uses tights and long-sleeved tops, usually lycra outer shell but better heat retention. Again - Hansen's letter was making the deal that it was unsafe because of the cold. I was pointing out that the cold isn't in-and-of-itself a problem, because endurance sports take place routinely in far colder temperatures without ill effect, and those sports have a lower limit on acceptable temperature too. My point was that the letter did not mention the road conditions, which seemed absurd because they are the reason it isn't safe to cycle in those temperatures, not the cold.

It's not like it was -15º on Umbrailpass. Exercise at ~0ºC isn't physiologically going to be a problem for most people, especially not elite athletes. It was the freezing rain and potential ice and slush on the ground on a mountain road that was the problem (and is a much more obvious one than just being cold and wet, because while nobody likes being cold and wet, descending a mountain road with no grip is actually dangerous rather than just unpleasant). Yet that wasn't the issue raised by the letter.

Which is also why it was ridiculous not to race Auron in Paris-Nice. The roads were clear, the finish uphill. I get that they plausibly couldn't do Saint-Martin, but the last climb was perfectly raceable.

 

[Mayomaniac]

Haha Ala, you got cold hands! Try to pull down your zipper without shaking! Haha, you cant because you are so numb!

*walks off*

He gave his gloves to the teamcar before the fist climb of the day. Could have used waterproof gloves over normal ones too. Instead they all try to save a few grams that won' matter in the end.
For the record, it was more about people who complain about cold weather and then don't even protect their hands, Ala suffering was an example of what happens if you wanna be cool and race without gloves with those conditions.

 

[Mayomaniac]

I think they wanted Sanchez a bit upfront to help Rubio to bridge. Then Quintana could not sustain as long as planned, so they ordered Sanchez back. But then Rubio did not have the legs to attack, so Sanchez tried again on his own, only to have mechanical issues.

Rubio even had a hard time following Quintana, he just had a bad day.

 

[Sciatic]

Riders shouldn't race when the temperature is below zero for very extended periods of time, let's be real. There's no entertainment value and there is a genuine risk to rider safety

? Folks in Colorado ride in those conditions all winter long. Obviously most Nordic ski races often take place well below 0C